Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

Jive Turkey · Dec 31, 2015

The Edge_sl said:
You mean bae?

I feel bad for the guy. I can empathize. You create something that creates a lot of passionate fans. Not everyone is a Star Wars fan, but hey, you weren't writing for those people anyway. You're just happy that people really like what you've created. You then take a break from it for many years, then come back with the next part of the story you want tell. Only now, a portion of those fans, and let's be honest, a minority, a very vocal minority, but still a minority, dislike your new work. You're bummed that you couldn't please everyone, but most people still really liked it, and overall, you're happy with your work. But now those dissenting opinions become angry and hateful, and they are relentless. Haters just don't ever fucking shut up. It's been 16 years and people still complain about Jar Jar. However much in the minority they are, you get sick of hearing the critics badmouth your creation. You look at doing the final part of your story, and look at the time investment and your age, you don't NEED the money, and remember the hate that you're going to get no matter how well you do, and you say "fuck it. I'm done." And you try to give the haters what they want by letting someone else finish your work.

You then watch the new finished product, and you see a story that you would not have told. You've had the ideas in your head for so long, about how this 9 part series would end up, and now you realize that you're never going to see that and you become full of regret. This was your baby, and you tried to do the right thing by giving it up, but you did it in a moment of weakness, because you were hurt, and you know that you can never take it back.

It doesn't matter how much money you have. Insults still hurt, and no one likes to have shit talked about them, especially on such a grand scale, and for so long. People are so quick to label things as "terrible, worst ever, sucks ass, abortion." It's sensationalist, and diminishes the value of true criticism, and in no way accurately reflects the quality of the work. People love jumping on the hate bandwagon though, for anything. Hate is easy. The Dark Side is a quicker path to power.

Well the haters won this time, and you got ANH 2.0. Congrats.

lol

Jive Turkey · Dec 31, 2015

The Edge_sl said:
I don't care to google for you, but 1) 30 years ago he said he wanted to do 9 parts 2) At a interview he JUST did this week, he said in 2012 he was getting ready to make VII, but that's when he decided to sell to Disney instead.

It was clear while he wasmakingthe prequels that he had no fucking idea where the story was going. You're delusional

Jive Turkey · Dec 31, 2015

chaos_sl said:
Right, he said that a long time ago, but he didn't have the story. He didn't even have the story for Episode 4 really, what we saw was not a singular vision but the result of years of work, sacrifice, and compromise. The movie he originally made was so bad not even he liked it. Your whole post about this poor man, beaten down by the fans for trying to just tell his story that he's had in his head for 30 years, it's bs. He wants Star Wars to be one way. But it's the other.

There's a hilarious behind the scenes video showing a handful of producers immediately after George showed them the first cut of Phantom Menace. The look on Rick McCallum's face is priceless

khorum · Dec 31, 2015

Jive Turkey_sl said:
There's a hilarious behind the scenes video showing a handful of producers immediately after George showed them the first cut of Phantom Menace. The look on Rick McCallum's face is priceless

ohkcrlho · Dec 31, 2015

Isn't rick berman? Aha

About Lucas, a guy that created Star Wars but with help of others (I still stand what I said, george created the main story but the things we love about SW, was done by his ex wife, kershner, kurtz and others), he never accepted this and started to fuck the saga with the special edition shit, so in the end he could say "now you see? These are the movies I wanted to make", although the majority hates SE.
The fans demanded year after year the original cut but he refused. Hey George, SW it is what it Is because of us. Even if you are the "creator", without us, you would be nothing, so a little respect would be appreciated .

But now I laugh. He cries no one wanted his opinion to make TFA (thank god) and he sold to the wrong people ahah but maybe he's pissed because , in my opinion, SW is worth way over 4 billion.

Cybsled · Dec 31, 2015

ohkcrlho_sl said:
Isn't rick berman? Aha

About Lucas, a guy that created Star Wars but with help of others (I still stand what I say, george created the main story but the things we love about SW, was done by his ex wife, kershner, kurtz and others), he never accepted this and started to fuck the saga with the special edition shit, so in the end he could say "now you see? These are the movies I wanted to make", although the majority hates SE.
The fans demand year after year the original cut but he refused. Hey George, SW it is what it Is because of us. Even if you are the "creator", without us, you would be nothing, so a little respect would be appreciated .

But now I laugh. He cries no one wanted his opinion to make TFA (thank god) and he sold to the wrong people ahah but maybe he's pissed because , in my opinion, SW is worth way over 4 billion.

In the hands of Disney? Of course it is worth more than 4 billion. Merchandising alone they will make many times that back and this movie alone has already pulled in a huge sum.

ohkcrlho · Dec 31, 2015

Even before disney, 4 billion is pretty low imo
But hey....I am no expert about evaluating such things

Royal · Dec 31, 2015

He didn't originally have a planned number of movies or a broader story. They (he and his producers) couldn't even decide what ANH's episode number should be for a while. He just wanted to create a sense that the movie was part of events that had unfolded previously.

After making the original movie and Fox asked him to make another is when Lucas developed a very broad and vague notion of an overall story arc encompassing 9 films. I specifically remember reading that in an issue of Time that came out just beforeEmpirewas released:

Some of those things made it into the films that were eventually made. Others didn't. Lucas pretty much threw out his own outline afterEmpirebecause after the success ofRaiders of the Lost Ark, according to Gary Kurtz (producer/director on ANH and ESB), he felt that audiences really didn't care about story as much as they did about thrills and action sequences.

edit: It's amazing to read thatTime articlenow, which came out 2 days before the movie was released, thinking about how so many people react to spoilers today or the extent to which Abrams went to maintain secrecy about TFA.

TJT · Dec 31, 2015

Royal_sl said:
If you watch the making of for Crystal Skull you'll see that Spielberg was basically "George wants to do what? Fuck it. Let's do that." for that entire process. A Hollywood legend turned yes man. He has more than enough clout to eat a stinker with his name on it here and there so he ate one for George. I guess they're just good friends. It mystifies me though.

He (Spielberg) loved TFA to. Abrams let him have an advanced viewing and he came back and asked him to watch it again two more times.

According to Mr. Plinkett. Nobody (except George) really wanted to make Crystal Skull. After whatever forces that be exist around Hollywood really pressed them into agreeing to the film. I kinda figured Spielberg just went with it. I'll do my best (with what you give me to do) but as far as I am concerned Indiana Jones ended when Indi ran off into the sunset in the Last Crusade. It had to have been a longtime friends thing.

That being said, The Phantom Menace was an awful film at every level. The guys who run Red Letter Media worked in production or something for years. I know very little about film, as a medium, the use of shots, angles, expository pacing, all that shit. I found their reviews of it to be extremely interesting and really did explain why the prequels were just awful. Not because they were Star Wars but just terrible examples of a story in the medium. Failing so many aspects of 'basic' film creation that it was simply baffling.

Then you realize that this is what happens when you give one person absolute control over every single aspect of their creation. Much like similarly discussed beloved series, in any medium, on this forum (Mass Effect 3).

Cybsled · Dec 31, 2015

TJT_sl said:
According to Mr. Plinkett. Nobody (except George) really wanted to make Crystal Skull. After whatever forces that be exist around Hollywood really pressed them into agreeing to the film. I kinda figured Spielberg just went with it. I'll do my best (with what you give me to do) but as far as I am concerned Indiana Jones ended when Indi ran off into the sunset in the Last Crusade. It had to have been a longtime friends thing.

That being said, The Phantom Menace was an awful film at every level. The guys who run Red Letter Media worked in production or something for years. I know very little about film, as a medium, the use of shots, angles, expository pacing, all that shit. I found their reviews of it to be extremely interesting and really did explain why the prequels were just awful. Not because they were Star Wars but just terrible examples of a story in the medium. Failing so many aspects of 'basic' film creation that it was simply baffling.

Then you realize that this is what happens when you give one person absolute control over every single aspect of their creation. Much like similarly discussed beloved series, in any medium, on this forum (Mass Effect 3).

Reminds me of an episode of Chuck where Morgan lost all his nerd memories, so John Casey trolls him into watching the prequel Star Wars films first in order to ruin Star Wars for him forever. But later John feels bad about doing that and after Morgan watches the original 3 Indiana Jones movies, he asks John if there are any more Indiana Jones films and John tells him no ;p

Royal · Dec 31, 2015

Ukerric · Dec 31, 2015

khorum_sl said:
Lucas asked Spielberg then Zemeckis then finally Ron Howard to direct the prequels. They all turned him down after saying "YOU should do it, George".

Cunts.

That, or they were "I know George too much, no way I'm doing that with him breathing on my neck..."

Azrayne · Dec 31, 2015

You mean bae?

I feel bad for the guy. I can empathize. You create something that creates a lot of passionate fans. Not everyone is a Star Wars fan, but hey, you weren't writing for those people anyway. You're just happy that people really like what you've created. You then take a break from it for many years, then come back with the next part of the story you want tell. Only now, a portion of those fans, and let's be honest, a minority, a very vocal minority, but still a minority, dislike your new work. You're bummed that you couldn't please everyone, but most people still really liked it, and overall, you're happy with your work. But now those dissenting opinions become angry and hateful, and they are relentless. Haters just don't ever fucking shut up. It's been 16 years and people still complain about Jar Jar. However much in the minority they are, you get sick of hearing the critics badmouth your creation. You look at doing the final part of your story, and look at the time investment and your age, you don't NEED the money, and remember the hate that you're going to get no matter how well you do, and you say "fuck it. I'm done." And you try to give the haters what they want by letting someone else finish your work.

You then watch the new finished product, and you see a story that you would not have told. You've had the ideas in your head for so long, about how this 9 part series would end up, and now you realize that you're never going to see that and you become full of regret. This was your baby, and you tried to do the right thing by giving it up, but you did it in a moment of weakness, because you were hurt, and you know that you can never take it back.

It doesn't matter how much money you have. Insults still hurt, and no one likes to have shit talked about them, especially on such a grand scale, and for so long. People are so quick to label things as "terrible, worst ever, sucks ass, abortion." It's sensationalist, and diminishes the value of true criticism, and in no way accurately reflects the quality of the work. People love jumping on the hate bandwagon though, for anything. Hate is easy. The Dark Side is a quicker path to power.

Well the haters won this time, and you got ANH 2.0. Congrats.

Really?

I was 9 or 10 when Phantom Menace came out. At that point my entire previous Star Wars experience was the day in third grade when for some reason all our teachers phoned it in and had us sit down and watch the entire trilogy (seriously, still no idea why they did that, it wasn't the end of term or anything, they just plunked a bunch of 8 year old kids down for a Star Wars binge). Might have rented it from the video store or seen it on TV a second time or something, but I wasn't a fan by any stretch of the imagination.

Anyway, with TPM at that age I got a kick from the action scenes and some of the cooler CGI scenery and that was about it. The plot made zero fucking sense, I got really bored during that stupid interlude on Tatooine with the pod racing (and really confused about the stupid gambling thing), but I mostly enjoyed the battle scenes and the final lightsaber duel.

AOTC came along 2 years later and even at 11/12 I was able to recognize what a steaming pile of shit it was. I was 11 and I could realize how uncomfortably stilted and awkward the "romance" dialogue and subplot was, and once again the movie didn't really seem to have any central storyline to carry it along. I remember being bored to death with the cloning facility and the robot construction scenes, and only really getting some very small bit of enjoyment out of the lightsaber dueling at the very end. If I had been an adult, I would have walked out.

Finally ROTS came and I was 14 or whatever and I got roped into seeing it with cousins and I kinda enjoyed it, I think mostly because AOTC set the bar so fucking low.

So yeah, I wasn't an oldtime fan of the originals and I was in the primary demographic Lucas said he was aiming for, and even I fucking hated the movies. The reaction from everyone I knew at the time was more or less the same - I remember all the discussions at school after TPM came out revolved around trying to make sense of what the fuck was going on with the story. I mean I couldn't have articulated why I didn't enjoy them in the way I can looking back now, but I remember when someone gave me the AOTC vcr tape as a gift and I was really annoyed because it meant I'd have to watch the movie again. On the flip side I never became a huge fanatic about the original trilogy, but I'd always sit down and watch them if they were on TV and I wasn't doing anything, and I sometimes go back to them if I need something to watch while grinding in a game or whatever. They're not perfect by any means but they're cool movies with a unique atmosphere that really speak to the imagination.

So your whole "resentful fans/vocal minority" theory is a pile of shit.

Caliane · Dec 31, 2015

ohkcrlho_sl said:
Isn't rick berman? Aha

About Lucas, a guy that created Star Wars but with help of others (I still stand what I said, george created the main story but the things we love about SW, was done by his ex wife, kershner, kurtz and others), he never accepted this and started to fuck the saga with the special edition shit, so in the end he could say "now you see? These are the movies I wanted to make", although the majority hates SE.
The fans demanded year after year the original cut but he refused. Hey George, SW it is what it Is because of us. Even if you are the "creator", without us, you would be nothing, so a little respect would be appreciated .

But now I laugh. He cries no one wanted his opinion to make TFA (thank god) and he sold to the wrong people ahah but maybe he's pissed because , in my opinion, SW is worth way over 4 billion.

yeah. like this is so weird about this guy. Some people saying the "yes man", but thats really not it. If you are a creator, or work with a creator personally, you probably have seen it... A creator usually gets excited like no other, when some OTHER talented creator takes something they've made, and does a fan work, homage, etc. Its the best feeling int he world, when someone likes something you've created, enough to want to take it and run with it. Lucas has always hated that. he has always taken credit for everything, while profiting on the backs of others, and shitting on them at the same time. Starwars would have been dead ages ago with fan conventions, without Tiefighters, Xwing, Rogue squadrons, shadows of the Empire, EU, Kotor, etc. Everyone else has made him a billionaire. and, he totally shits on them all the time.

Anyone would have bought Starwars. ANYONE. No one forced him to sell to Disney. To call them "White slavers". Unfathomable how big a shitstain he is.

Its infuriating that everyone is doing interviews with him at all. he had nothing to do with this movie. Why are you talking to him and not J.J? or one of the actors, or anyone involved? why did HE agree to that interview?

Drakain · Dec 31, 2015

Azrayne_sl said:
Really?

I was 9 or 10 when Phantom Menace came out. At that point my entire previous Star Wars experience was the day in third grade when for some reason all our teachers phoned it in and had us sit down and watch the entire trilogy (seriously, still no idea why they did that, it wasn't the end of term or anything, they just plunked a bunch of 8 year old kids down for a Star Wars binge). Might have rented it from the video store or seen it on TV a second time or something, but I wasn't a fan by any stretch of the imagination.

Anyway, with TPM at that age I got a kick from the action scenes and some of the cooler CGI scenery and that was about it. The plot made zero fucking sense, I got really bored during that stupid interlude on Tatooine with the pod racing (and really confused about the stupid gambling thing), but I mostly enjoyed the battle scenes and the final lightsaber duel.

AOTC came along 2 years later and even at 11/12 I was able to recognize what a steaming pile of shit it was. I was 11 and I could realize how uncomfortably stilted and awkward the "romance" dialogue and subplot was, and once again the movie didn't really seem to have any central storyline to carry it along. I remember being bored to death with the cloning facility and the robot construction scenes, and only really getting some very small bit of enjoyment out of the lightsaber dueling at the very end. If I had been an adult, I would have walked out.

Finally ROTS came and I was 14 or whatever and I got roped into seeing it with cousins and I kinda enjoyed it, I think mostly because AOTC set the bar so fucking low.

So yeah, I wasn't an oldtime fan of the originals and I was in the primary demographic Lucas said he was aiming for, and even I fucking hated the movies. The reaction from everyone I knew at the time was more or less the same - I remember all the discussions at school after TPM came out revolved around trying to make sense of what the fuck was going on with the story. I mean I couldn't have articulated why I didn't enjoy them in the way I can looking back now, but I remember when someone gave me the AOTC vcr tape as a gift and I was really annoyed because it meant I'd have to watch the movie again. On the flip side I never became a huge fanatic about the original trilogy, but I'd always sit down and watch them if they were on TV and I wasn't doing anything, and I sometimes go back to them if I need something to watch while grinding in a game or whatever. They're not perfect by any means but they're cool movies with a unique atmosphere that really speak to the imagination.

So your whole "resentful fans/vocal minority" theory is a pile of shit.

This post makes me sad. I tend to forget because I grew up with the Original Trilogy and had Star Wars toys, clothes, sheets, etc... but there are generations of people out there who don't like or don't care about Star Wars because of the prequels. I guess to be fair, to not be exposed to the OT and it's significance falls at the feet of parents and family, but for George to knock JJ and Disney for TFA is ludicrous.

Ossoi · Dec 31, 2015

are people being over critical, after all he didn't finish his sentence or give an explanation to the comments. Since ANH he was the head of his own empire, many businesses have to go through a transition when the founder retires or dies. Most founders would prefer to pass the company on for someone to inherit or will sell up if there is nobody to take it on. I think he was just referring to Disney in a big corporation type way. Obviously it's still a bit strange as he did choose to sell to them and he can't criticise them for not wanting to use his ideas

chaos · Dec 31, 2015

I'm not sure how he could finish that statement and make it make sense or be anything other than whiny pussyhurts. He sees himself a victim, he sees Disney as some party that has wronged him, he sees his ideas in a fog of hindsight and nostalgia without acknowledging the work of thousands that created that original vision, and he dismisses the hard work of everyone involved in these new movies. Imagine being Kathleen Kennedy, who has known Lucas since the 70s, and being equated to a fucking slaver. The dude is a self-important asshole.

The Ancient_sl · Dec 31, 2015

It's not news. Ever since the special edition we've known it, we were just in denial for a very long time because he made star wars to begin with.

Caliane · Dec 31, 2015

chaos_sl said:
I'm not sure how he could finish that statement and make it make sense or be anything other than whiny pussyhurts. He sees himself a victim, he sees Disney as some party that has wronged him, he sees his ideas in a fog of hindsight and nostalgia without acknowledging the work of thousands that created that original vision, and he dismisses the hard work of everyone involved in these new movies. Imagine being Kathleen Kennedy, who has known Lucas since the 70s, and being equated to a fucking slaver. The dude is a self-important asshole.

the funny part is in this scenario. Disney is a plantation owner. George HIMSELF is the slaver.

Blakkheim · Dec 31, 2015

If I were Bob Iger or Kathleen Kennedy I'd privately tell Lucas to go fuck himself at this point and completely disassociate him from any involvement with the franchise at any level, even just creatively for any further ideas.

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