Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

Yeah I think "trained as a child before she was dumped on Jakku" is the most likely explanation, but it still isn't entirely adequate. Why doesn't she remember the training if it's so deeply ingrained? How did she develop such proficiency in such a short time at such a young age? Why the fuck was she able to beat Ren in her first lightsaber duel ever despite him having trained his entire life with both Luke and Snoke? Some of it makes sense if we accept that she's deeply gifted on the levels of Vader, but not all of it. But for that matter, neither does the fact that Finn was able to use a lightsaber at all. Should have sliced his own arm off 3 seconds into that silly duel with the storm trooper, let alone going up against Ren.

They'll come up with explanations for some of it, and the rest we'll have to accept as internal consistency traded off for narrative flow. You can only expect so much of these franchises.

Side note, but was it ever actually implied that Luke is exceptionally strong as a force user? I mean he's the baseline we have for what Jedi training entails and what kind of progress can be made in what kind of time frame (bearing in mind that he started late, but also that he primarily trained under Yoda). I remember they say he's "strong in the force" in the trilogy, but that's like saying a child is "intellectually gifted." It could mean they're Stephen Fucking Hawking or just that they're enough above average to make the rest of the kids at their school look dumb by comparison. I mean there wasn't exactly a glut of force users at the time he was training.

For all we know what Rey is experiencing is similar to the Hosts in Westworld, except her awakening occurred the moment she picked up the lightsaber and she unlocked herself the moment Kylo ranted about his training her.

Yoda "Luke, size does not matter - the force is all powerful - a rock, a x-wing , its the same thing and the effort or thought is the same!"

ObiWan Ghost "..."

Yoda "Except those rocks at the end of ep2 with Dooku, damn those where heavy"

Lucas once said that Luke was the most powerful Jedi ever, but that may not be canon anymore.

I'd like to add more evidence.

There's an official backstory that Rey had access to some "piloting simulations" and that's why she's able to fly, but it's relevant to point out that I'm not disputing her ability to actually fly a starship - it's that she's the best damn pilot in the galaxy.

Please note that she showed a immediate and powerful connection to Anakin's saber, twice. The first she receives the flashback sequence, and the second when they're on Starkiller.

"That lightsaber, it belongs to me!"

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(It's sitting in the snow. Kylo Ren force pulls it, but it doesn't respond to him. It flies to Rey.)

It's Rey's saber. Note that Kylo actually has a blood connection to the saber. If Rey truly is a random, then why does she have more of a connection to Anakin's saber than Anakin's great nephew?

Luke also continues using his green lightsaber in EP. 8. Why would Luke give it to Rey if she didn't have some special attachment to it; that was his first lightsaber, that was his fathers. It's his birthright, but he lets her keep it?

Wouldn't the production team give Luke black his blue saber (because of the "cool" factor that JJ loves) if there wasn't some reason for them not to?

lower case g said:

Lucas once said that Luke was the most powerful Jedi ever, but that may not be canon anymore.

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Not canon. Sidious is the most powerful canon force user now (that we know of), with Anakin having had the most potential. Luke isn't even top 3. Episode 8 could change this, as we'll have our very first view of the aged Luke. No idea where Snoke lies on this scale is because his identity is unknown.

All of this is subject to change with the final trilogy.

Just wanted to fill those of you who weren't aware of this revelation in the past year.



Has been confirmed by Ahmed Best, the actor who played Jar Jar. Basically George Lucas intended to make Jar Jar a Sith, and co-conspirator, with Palps. The immense media backlash made him rewrite EP 2 and change Jar Jar's role to that of Dooku's, who just basically shows up out of nowhere as he was hastily added to the script. Watch the video.

It will provide overwhelming evidence that it was George Lucas' initial vision, as he loves having "small, stupid, harmless creatures" turn out to be the "almighty wizard characters" (Yoda).

Best said he filmed a very dark scene Ian McDiarmid where Palpatine and confides and congratulates him on their success in misleading the Senate. That's about the time the major Jar Jar hate appeared and he was basically written out.

Goddamn Wooly you are stupid sometimes.

What specifically did I say that you disagree with?

Woolygimp said:

What specifically did I say that you disagree with?

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Most things you say. I am just too lazy to cite what at the moment.

radditsu said:

Most things you say. I am just too lazy to cite what at the moment.

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Read:
[Theory] Jar Jar Binks was a trained Force user, knowing Sith collaborator, and will play a central role in The Force Awakens • /r/StarWars

Ignore the title. It's obvious Jar Jar binks was not the road that Disney wanted to travel with Episode 7. There's more evidence for it than was presented at OJ's trial.

The actor has confirmed it. The only thing missing is George Lucas saying, "yeah that was what I intended to do, but chickened out." which he's not going to do now that he doesn't own the IP.

If you're disagreeing with my theory regarding Rey, then what's your explanation for her mysterious and extremely strong connection to Anakin's saber?

If you were in charge of EP 8, and Rey was just some random person wouldn't you give Luke back his blue saber? Rey is fucking trying to hand it back to him at the end of EP VII. He does NOT take it!

Wouldn't you think that would be what most audiences would want to see? Something they'd be, "fuck yeah!" over, seeing the old Skywalker kick ass with his first lightsaber? Let's be fair. Nobody likes the newer green one. There's a reason Rey keeps it, besides Luke probably dying by the end of IX.

Part of predicting twists or future revelations is pure psychology. "What would I do in their shoes?" "Does it make sense for them to do X if Y is true?"

Woolygimp said:

If you're disagreeing with my theory regarding Rey, then what's your explanation for her mysterious and extremely strong connection to Anakin's saber?

If you were in charge of EP 8, and Rey was just some random person wouldn't you give Luke back his blue saber?

Wouldn't you think that would be what most audiences would want to see? Something they'd be, "fuck yeah!" over, seeing the old Skywalker kick ass with his first lightsaber? Let's be fair. Nobody likes the newer green one. There's a reason Rey keeps it, besides Luke probably dying by the end of IX.

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1)Because she is Luke's Kid or a Skywalker of some sort. It's not going to be a twist "clone ending" . A Clone would be in Sidious's or Vader's image, because evil is narcissist.


2) I LOVE the Green Saber much more than any other saber son. I own the replica in my closet and I scare my kids with it and its great.

3)As far as Jar Jar that dude is playing into the dumb reddit theory's that try to make the prequels tolerable by Millennial apologists. Lucas didn't have a fucking DRAFT done until principal photography was a week away. Lucas was done creatively. Over and over it is shown that he has nothing left in that tank. Any "twist" is in someones fucking head. That shit has been planted in the collective consciousness since Lucas sold the rights to Disney. It's almost like a company was leveraging the consumer culture to stoke "nostalgia" in a fanbase that may not come in and watch a Star wars movie, because a good one wasnt made since 1983.


TLDR:
Prequels are garbage and Lucas was old and had zero creativity left in the the tank or any imagination. But he helps the poor now so he is all right by me.





Case and fucking point:

Dexter Jettster

There are a ton of problems with the whole Darth Jar Jar thing, but first and foremost, wouldn't that be breaking the whole rule of 2 thing? And we're supposed to believe that he was constantly busting out dark side force powers without two Jedi noticing a thing?

Otherwise - he acts like an idiot and does stupid stuff because he's an idiot and does stupid stuff. "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" and all that. The rest just comes off as lame slapstick comedy. He can jump really high because he's a fucking frog alien.

No idea why there are so many prequel apologists - I watched that shit as a kid too, and I could still recognize awful movies when I saw them (well, I didn't have too much of a problem with Phantom Menace at the time, being I think 10 years old, but by the time I saw Attack of the Clones in the cinema I was cringing at the terrible dialogue, and looking back now...).

Intrinsic said:

Wasn't all of Luke's winking to blow up Star Destroyers all EU stuff? The trilogy Luke was obviously powerfully in tune with the force, but the crazy shit came way later.

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I never got into the EU stuff, and he sure as fuck didn't blow up Star Destroyers with the force in the trilogy.

Jar Jar's "battle" moves, or actions in which he dispatches his enemies, being exact moves copied from a Zui Quan are what give the Jar Jar theory credit. Lucas intentionally researched Drunken Boxing and had Jar Jar perform those moves when in combat. There is no debating whether or not Jar Jar performs moves from Zui Quan, the only question is whether or not Lucas introduced Drunken Boxing into the Star Wars Universe as comic relief, or to mislead us with a seemingly dumb character.

That's a pretty difficult question to answer. Seeing someone perform Drunken Boxing isn't inherently comical (at all), unless it's Jackie Chan kicking ass in Drunken Master, but Lucas has some strange concepts of humor. Really strange. Is Jar Jar intentionally performing martial arts or was it researched and implemented as a way for Jar Jar to perform well in combat despite him being retarded? It infuriates me that we'll never know.

The draft for EP 2 was titled "Jar Jar's" great adventure and Lucas was making it up as he went. What sells me though is that Lucas is a huge sucker for twists, and there are none in the prequels. Him tricking us all with Jar Jar just seems so...him. He fucking did it with Yoda. Look how much time and effort he initially put into the character. He considered Michael Jackson for the role. He was naming scripts after him. I mean it's obvious that he intended Jar Jar to be core to the prequels, but was it as comic relief...or the villain?

Jar Jar can jump twenty feet. He can swim faster than a fish. He could escape from that ship at any time, and is in absolutely no danger at all, yet sits there teetering on the brink of a waterfall acting like he's on the brink of death. Was George really THAT far gone?


(Sorry, couldn't find the real video. In the movie, after the ship becomes unhooked he jumps across the water like it was nothing.)

Besides, Jar Jar was responsible for almost everything (bad) that happens in the prequels...


I think it's more likely than not that George Lucas intended to mislead us with Jar Jar and backed away. Would it be enough to convict someone in court? Is it beyond a reasonable doubt? Probably not. But there's more evidence in favor of than against. But this IS George Lucas. This is exactly the kind of thing he'd try to pull, and he'd sacrifice shit like the "Rule of Two" to pull off another cinematic twist on par with Vader's reveal.

The second question would be whether Best can be trusted. He said straight up that he and McDiarmid filmed a really dark scene and that Palpatine was confiding in his character like they were close associates. He also says the Reddit theory is "very close" to the truth.

Now he could be saying all of this to bring attention to himself, and boost his career. I mean that's typical PR. The Jar Jar theory going viral was a huge fucking win for him, so is he being honest? I don't know the guy, so I don't know. If I had to guess based on looks and body language, I'd say yes. Why? Because Jar Jar is more responsible for the events that take place than even Palpatine. Without him Palpatine's plan fails and that too is something we all should consider.

This is one theory that I'll never get a chance to say, "I told you so." or for you guys to call me a, "stupid autistic dumbfuck." if I'm wrong. We'll never fucking know. At least not unless Lucas has a deathbed confession, because atm he's sitting pretty with all that money Disney gave him.

I also want to point out that I'm not very confident and could be wrong here, but I appreciate the discussion. Star Wars is very volatile and has undergone so much retconning and has the entire EU completely expunged, while Abrams simultaneously introduced about 50 fucking plot holes with TFA.
Not being able to travel at "Light-Speed" near a gravity well is a basic Star Wars physic, as much as lightsabers being able to cut through things, yet he allows Han Solo to perform an absolutely impossible feat by flying through the shield. [The explanation is so shoddy. Basically it's "safety" computers that prevent this near gravity wells, and Solo disabled his. Yet why when rebel ships are being trapped by Interdictor's, which create gravity wells, don't they just disable their safety systems and fly away? Interdictors are STILL canon. God, I hate Abrams. He's like half good/half terrible of a director.]

Those that think Rey is "normal" or whatever; then why did we receive so much backstory about Jakku and the secret experimentation that was taking place there? What are your theories about what the Empire was really doing and why they tried defending the facility at all costs? I believe there are only two possibilities.

Jakku has to do with:

1. Rey
2. Snoke

And having Ben Solo be so weak is weird honestly. I really wouldn't be surprised if we do see him switch, or something crazy. It just doesn't create a lot of drama to have your antagonist be weaker than your protagonists.

Wasn't it confirmed somewhere that the Knights of Ren were a splinter-group from Luke's student base lead by Kylo? Although that raises the question of where the fuck they were during TFA.

His coming off as so weak imo just comes down to narrative necessity - they needed a way for Rey to survive the duel at the end of the movie, anything after that is just justification after the fact. If anything, he should have been at the peak of his power after finally going all the way dark side when he killed Han.

Star Wars is very volatile and has undergone so much retconning and has the entire EU completely expunged

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This is what it boils down to - the primary narrative comes first, everything else is build around that. Same way that lore takes a backseat to gameplay in video games. And I don't know much about film business, but I get the impression that these days it's a lot more decisions by committee and a lot less one or two dudes sitting around putting shit together, so some weirdness is obviously going to turn in. Best approach is to just chill out.

Was George really THAT far gone?

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Given how the rest of the prequel's worked out, I think the answer is probably 'yes, yes he was."

re: jar jar, the whole drunken boxing thing just seems like another element taken from old kung fu movies, doesn't necessarily imply anything about sith potential. See Drunken Master - Wikipedia Drunken Master II - Wikipedia

It is an early example of the comedic kung fugenre for which Jackie Chan became famous. The film popularised the Zui Quan (醉拳, "drunken fist") fighting style.

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Anyway, even if it was confirmed that Jar Jar was originally intended to be an undercover sith, I'm honestly glad they changed it, because I can't imagine any way they could have executed that that wouldn't have been retarded. Jar Jar was just too goofy - Yoda was weird and cooky, yes, but he wasn't the butt of every lame joke in a 2 hour movie. You can't bring a character back from that.

It's also implied that Yoda was putting on an act to test Luke by appearing undercover (another classic kung fu trope), at least to a large degree. I don't think his weird behavior in his first 5 minutes of screen time (which is where 90% of it occurs) is really comparable to Jar Jar's 2 hours of painful absurdity.

I don't doubt that if Lucas had tried to implement a big reveal with Jar Jar as a sith lord, everybody would have fucking hated it, because he would have executed it as atrociously as he did everything else in those movies. People are just infatuated with the idea now because it's something to talk about that makes the prequels seem maybe a tiny bit less lame, and that's the current mood around SW right now with the optimism brought on by TFA.

IMO the reality was probably somewhere in the middle - no crazy "Jar Jar is a secret sith lord" conspiracy, just that Lucas probably planned to have Jar Jar play a much greater role in the political storyline in Attack/Revenge, being used as a puppet by Palpatine to manipulate characters and political events, but then trimmed that shit after everyone loathed Jar Jar.