Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

Pretty much. They probably see the newer movies the same way that a lot of current fans of them do; not as good as the OT but certainly better than the prequels.

But I don't think it's simply a matter of them conducting their own little rebellion against the merchandising associated with the franchise because if you know anything about the history of it, the merchandising was always one of it's cornerstones. It's why Fox has permanent distro rights to Ep. IV (Lucas traded that away for getting the movie financed and for the merchandising rights, the revenue from which he then used to make the later movies and to bankroll Lucasfilm while he got it off of the ground). You just don't get incensed by all of that when you're a kid and like seeing all of the toys and stuff out there.

And that really shouldn't have anything to do with their little feud with Collider anyway. They don't push those boxes of random shit services on their channel. The only sponsor they've ever had was the AMC theater chain (in fact that's how they got started, as AMC Movie Talk). Sure they have some merch on their Star Wars show set (because that's what fan channels on YouTube look like) but they don't push any of it other than maybe the books when they're doing book reviews. And they don't rely on YouTube advertising for their financing. Most of that comes from their parent company Complex Media and from contracting out their production services for content that runs on other platforms.

They're making fun of the YouTube shows because the YouTube shows tend to be clickbait and 90% pointless.
Example, I'm an MCU fanboy and I saw "Captain Marvel suit revealed!" with Jessica Chobot. I watched the dumb thing and all it was was some concept art that some open house insiders saw. But no pic was in the video. Yet they go on and on for 7 minutes about it.

People are shitting on RLM? WHAT THE FUCK! They have the high ground.

iannis said:

Precisely because of the plinkett reviews that basically bar them from Hollywood access... I don't think they'd have any trouble at all eviscerating a bad movie

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Very strongly disagree. Its exactly because of who plinkett is, and what the plinkett reviews stand for, as to why TFA can't get an honest review. Nor any of the future Disney productions.

They cornered themselves into the anti-Lucas guys, and now as a result every criticism has to come from that place-- first and foremost.

There was ABSOLUTELY no chance they would dare say a single critical thing about TFA, given Lucas was removed from the project entirely. They couldn't even go a single step in that direction without Lucas having some kind of position on the credits. Slap even something like "associate producer" next to his name on TFA, and RLM would be singing a much different tune. For RLM, its always been personal.

The only thing Plinkett eviscerated was RLM's mainstream credibility. And that's why they don't get press access. Its still a great fan critic organization, they don't bring any inherent bias that can't be found on any other fan site.

As a film, TFA was superior in every quantifiable way to ANH.

Rogue One was fucking trash.

Looking forward to TLJ, and the rest of the trilogy.

The spin-offs can suck it.

kegkilla said:

no dipshit, they are laughing at people like yourself.

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I'll make sure to toss 'em a "hai guyz" when I shoot my next deep dive trailer breakdown and analysis, just in case they're watching.

Some people are going to go into it looking for the similarities no doubt and see those more readily than the differences. That's the price that comes with Abram's approach to TFA and there's no getting away from it. Some people are going to expect "another rehash". But that was such a regular criticism of TFA that it's a safe bet that Lucasfilm is going to be wary of creating the impression again moving forward. That being said we won't know for sure until a lot more details about the movie come out at the very least.

But I didn't see anything in that clip that you can extrapolate TLJ = ESB from. He said there will be similarities because it will be the middle of the trilogy. He's elaborated on that in other interviews, saying that is where things will slow down a bit and the characters will be examined, challenged in new ways, and evolve. That's what ESB did as well.

I've got to think that if they copy ESB the way that they copied ANH they'll lose a large portion of their audience.

But it might not be a terrible plan for them to do that. ESB obviously worked. There are an awful lot of younger ticket buying butts in chairs that have only seen ESB on television. An updated ESB on a big ass screen... honestly it might not be the worst business decision.

But it would start to cost them potential money as the 40+ fans go, "Ok. I can see why you did that with TFA. But what the fuck is this shit guise?" And it's probably the 40+'s that are fueling their merchandising machine.

So, we'll see. I sort of think that "Rey and Darth Emo are COUSINS!" is way, way, way too obvious so they can't have that iconic "I am your father" moment. They just can't do that.

They've kind of already lost the game with the ESB comparisons. The only thing they can do is take a risk and make it very much NOT like ESB. But obviously they're not going to do that. This is a tentpole, not a project to try something unproven.

It will be interesting to see what they've decided to do. And probably at least partially disappointing on a meta level.

The internet spoiler machine is a double edged thing, isn't it? It's obviously great for marketing but I'm starting to think it's actually bad for the product. These movies take at least six months to make, and then probably another six to edit. In that amount of time you've had a goonswarm of nerds that have already discussed every possible thing that you could have done -- so for fans, anything that you DID do was predictable. And that's a problem. People want to be entertained. That's the point.

They should make Last Jedi like a really hardcore drama about the Israeli conflict. Cast the Gyllenhalls in it, both of them. Just fucking blow everyone out of their seats.

I don't know about loosing a large portion. They'll loose some of the core fans who, you're right, do drive the merchandising machine. But I think the general audience doesn't pick up on that stuff as readily to begin with, won't get as miffed about it, and that's good enough for the movies to hit $1B like clockwork. And I think Lucasfilm would be fine with that, in spite of TFA having made double that. That one will remain an outlier for some time to come.

The ESB parallels are just baked into the cake to a degree at this point. There is a galactic scaled war in the offing. A protagonist who never knew her parents (or at least doesn't remember them and we know we'll learn something about that). At the end of the previous movie the good guys were still at a base that opposition knows the location of (so there is bound to be an attack and evacuation, which they could handle off camera but it looks like we might have seen parts of it in the trailer already). Our would-be Jedi is going to receive some sort of training from a reluctant master. So some of the same themes will clearly be there. It's going to come down to Rian Johnson's writing and the execution to make it all feel distinctive to his movie.

The rumor mill/spoiler machine/theorycraft-a-matic is something I think you can both overestimate and underestimate. I don't think it's so much bad for the product as it is bad for those who immerse themselves in it between movies. I don't think that's big portion of even the core fans, much less the audience at large. However a lot of those that do not only make it virtually impossible for themselves to experience anything unanticipated with the movie but also become so invested into some of the theories or speculation that they're even disappointed when it doesn't turn out in a way that lines up with the particular theory they decided to buy into. Those people I will never understand or feel much sympathy for.

Here's what they have going for them... it's more Star Wars. As long as it's tolerable and moves the story forward, they're going to make an incredible amount of money. I think what they need to worry about is what happens once the stories of the original characters end. Just finding out or experiencing Luke's/Skywalker Family's conclusion will keep most hooked but I believe it's obvious by the end of this trilogy they'll have to stand on their own two feet.

Daisy Ridley is adorable and likable in every way but i'm not sure how far that will carry Star Wars fans in the end. Once this trilogy ends, they'll get one movie (assuming they continue the canonical storyline) to maintain the masses. After that I feel they could potentially experience some drop off.

I'm sure they're afraid of that. That's why the anthology movies are staying well within the shadow of the OT and/or it's characters so far.

To a certain extent I think people are just complaining about something that's not really going to change - the original trilogy was a hero's journey, the new trilogy is a hero's journey using the same universe and sides. There's obviously going to be a lot of easy comparisons to pick up on. Some of it is going to be the "Lincoln vs. JFK Coincidences" syndrome where it's just so easy to find coincidences that people decry it. TFA seems to have legitimately imitated ANH to a preposterous degree, but some of it is still just unavoidable coincidences. No matter WHAT they do for The Last Jedi, there's going to be tons of people pointing out every little coincidence and it'll anger some people and be irrelevant to others.

Again, same story structure, using the same 2 sides, even some of the same characters.... there's going to be a lot of similarities regardless.

Fuck that it's poetry, it rhymes shit.
Comeup with something new!!!!!

With all of the material they've been putting out lately showing things from the perspective of the Imperial regulars I think they'll eventually do a movie or tv show that does the same. It'll be tricky so Lucasfilm will have to grow a bigger pair than they currently have before it happens.

Royal said:

With all of the material they've been putting out lately showing things from the perspective of the Imperial regulars I think they'll eventually do a movie or tv show that does the same. It'll be tricky so Lucasfilm will have to grow a bigger pair than they currently have before it happens.

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Perfect candidate for that would be Admiral Yularen as a PoV character. A beloved character from TCW series that ended up staying with the Empire and dying in the destruction of the first Death Star. Too bad it'll never happen though.

Yularen is too big of a player to be considered a regular. The challenge with a movie from the Imperial perspective will be making Imp characters who aren't the likes of Vader, Tarkin, or the Emperor someone an audience can get behind. That will take either sticking with low rankers who didn't sign up just to get their chance at dealing out some oppression or with someone higher up on the ladder who switches sides. Yularen is certainly a likeable character without either of those but you can't rely on an understanding that was established in The Clone Wars animated series to supply that traction with a general audience.

If it ever happens I think it will either deal with front line soldiers and their immediate commanders (like the Inferno Squad from the upcoming Battlefront 2 game) or a lower ranking official who has enough of the right sort of information to be dangerous if they ever turned traitor (think Agent Kallus from Rebels or Everi Chalis from the Twilight Company novel). There is some good material already out there but here is where their devotion to a single, unified continuity across all of the different media becomes a problem. You can't really adapt any of it and maintain that continuity.

Yularen is a great example of an extended nod to the fans. I bet 99% of the people who watched Clone Wars and Rebels completely miss that its the same character and even among those who do notice they probably dont further connect him to the Death Star.