Starfield - Fallout fallout that isn't ES6

rhinohelix · Sunday at 3:48 AM

Tuco said:
I won't pay a dime for anything until people compare starfields recovery with no mans sky.

And if they don't invest in starfield enough to make it respectable, good luck convincing me (who has played all five elder scrolls) into buying TES6 without good reviews.

That's a super high bar to get over, and no established company is every going to be able to reach it, man, but I support your choice; I am hopefully for a Phantom Liberty style improvement, although I don't get that kind of commitment vibe from Todd. Perhaps my concerns have been addressed, or I have a bad take on the gameplay/story etc. This is just what it looks like to me. My Top of mind list of What they need to do:

1) Unfuck the narrative. Every other Bethesda (and most other games period) have a narrative path forward, into the future. Because of the NG+/Multiverses are the new hotness choices they made probably 7 years ago and now and a couple years before release, Starfield is stuck at a narrative dead end; it always ends with the player entering the Unity and resetting the Timeline/moving to a different universe. Nothing can progress story wise past that point: The Starfield Universe can't change or evolve, new events can't happen, nothing can become cannon because the player is always going to enter the Unity. Fix this dead end, either with the expansion or an update but fix it.

2) Radically improve the gameplay: By this I mean the flow of travel within the game, from one location to another is like 7 loading screens. Using the Creation Engine again might have seemed like a good idea, and they talked it up before launch but we all saw the limitations, the loading screens, the loading screens, the loading screens. It didn't matter so much in the short run, but over Skyrim-type playthroughs, it makes doing anything too staccato. No one (well, I am not) asking for seamless lift offs from planet to space but lots of systems need better design.

3) Fix the graphics: You aren't going to get Cyberpunk level graphics out of the Creation engine but you need to improve the night club setting so the comparisons aren't humiliating.

4) Make the planets better: Planet exploration should be a top tier item, not hot rando garbage.

5) Fix the mods: They gave Skyrim so much life, this and so much more contribute to how Bethesda is seen as a company: If just for PR purposes, put this thing right.

All this is off the top of my head when I haven't looked at or thought about Starfield in probably a year. It sunk its claws into me deep, and I was burned super hard when I realized what the story narrative had done. Combine that with the thousand cuts of the poor game system design and its one of the biggest flops for me in a long long time. Cyberpunk 2077 at launch was a better game for me, narratively it offered more choice, and while the game had a lot of bugs, none of them made the game seem poorly designed or lesser. Starfield looks like a Frankenstein's monster with leftover parts from 10 years that just accumulated and eventually the third or fourth project manager/director got complete *enough* to ship. No one would confuse that with good.

They have a chance with an expansion to address many of these issues. I haven't been paying that much attention because fuck this game but I haven't heard the right things yet.

Maybe they've said them, or maybe they haven't lost enough money yet.

It's an albatross right now they need to get rid of before they launch anything else. It will weigh down ES6 for sure.

Tuco · Sunday at 7:21 AM

rhinohelix said:
That's a super high bar to get over, and no established company is every going to be able to reach it, man, but I support your choice; I am hopefully for a Phantom Liberty style improvement, although I don't get that kind of commitment vibe from Todd. Perhaps my concerns have been addressed, or I have a bad take on the gameplay/story etc. This is just what it looks like to me. My Top of mind list of What they need to do:

1) Unfuck the narrative. Every other Bethesda (and most other games period) have a narrative path forward, into the future. Because of the NG+/Multiverses are the new hotness choices they made probably 7 years ago and now and a couple years before release, Starfield is stuck at a narrative dead end; it always ends with the player entering the Unity and resetting the Timeline/moving to a different universe. Nothing can progress story wise past that point: The Starfield Universe can't change or evolve, new events can't happen, nothing can become cannon because the player is always going to enter the Unity. Fix this dead end, either with the expansion or an update but fix it.

2) Radically improve the gameplay: By this I mean the flow of travel within the game, from one location to another is like 7 loading screens. Using the Creation Engine again might have seemed like a good idea, and they talked it up before launch but we all saw the limitations, the loading screens, the loading screens, the loading screens. It didn't matter so much in the short run, but over Skyrim-type playthroughs, it makes doing anything too staccato. No one (well, I am not) asking for seamless lift offs from planet to space but lots of systems need better design.

3) Fix the graphics: You aren't going to get Cyberpunk level graphics out of the Creation engine but you need to improve the night club setting so the comparisons aren't humiliating.

4) Make the planets better: Planet exploration should be a top tier item, not hot rando garbage.

5) Fix the mods: They gave Skyrim so much life, this and so much more contribute to how Bethesda is seen as a company: If just for PR purposes, put this thing right.

All this is off the top of my head when I haven't looked at or thought about Starfield in probably a year. It sunk its claws into me deep, and I was burned super hard when I realized what the story narrative had done. Combine that with the thousand cuts of the poor game system design and its one of the biggest flops for me in a long long time. Cyberpunk 2077 at launch was a better game for me, narratively it offered more choice, and while the game had a lot of bugs, none of them made the game seem poorly designed or lesser. Starfield looks like a Frankenstein's monster with leftover parts from 10 years that just accumulated and eventually the third or fourth project manager/director got complete *enough* to ship. No one would confuse that with good.

They have a chance with an expansion to address many of these issues. I haven't been paying that much attention because fuck this game but I haven't heard the right things yet.

Maybe they've said them, or maybe they haven't lost enough money yet.

It's an albatross right now they need to get rid of before they launch anything else. It will weigh down ES6 for sure.

Yeah if they do that list (and a handful of other smaller things) it'd be a huge success story and build up hype for ES6.

Furry · Sunday at 7:22 AM

Tuco said:
Yeah if they do that list (and a handful of other smaller things) it'd be a huge success story and build up hype for ES6.

All they gotta do is make a whole game that doesn’t suck!

Dr.Retarded · Sunday at 12:11 PM

rhinohelix said:
That's a super high bar to get over, and no established company is every going to be able to reach it, man, but I support your choice; I am hopefully for a Phantom Liberty style improvement, although I don't get that kind of commitment vibe from Todd. Perhaps my concerns have been addressed, or I have a bad take on the gameplay/story etc. This is just what it looks like to me. My Top of mind list of What they need to do:

1) Unfuck the narrative. Every other Bethesda (and most other games period) have a narrative path forward, into the future. Because of the NG+/Multiverses are the new hotness choices they made probably 7 years ago and now and a couple years before release, Starfield is stuck at a narrative dead end; it always ends with the player entering the Unity and resetting the Timeline/moving to a different universe. Nothing can progress story wise past that point: The Starfield Universe can't change or evolve, new events can't happen, nothing can become cannon because the player is always going to enter the Unity. Fix this dead end, either with the expansion or an update but fix it.

2) Radically improve the gameplay: By this I mean the flow of travel within the game, from one location to another is like 7 loading screens. Using the Creation Engine again might have seemed like a good idea, and they talked it up before launch but we all saw the limitations, the loading screens, the loading screens, the loading screens. It didn't matter so much in the short run, but over Skyrim-type playthroughs, it makes doing anything too staccato. No one (well, I am not) asking for seamless lift offs from planet to space but lots of systems need better design.

3) Fix the graphics: You aren't going to get Cyberpunk level graphics out of the Creation engine but you need to improve the night club setting so the comparisons aren't humiliating.

4) Make the planets better: Planet exploration should be a top tier item, not hot rando garbage.

5) Fix the mods: They gave Skyrim so much life, this and so much more contribute to how Bethesda is seen as a company: If just for PR purposes, put this thing right.

All this is off the top of my head when I haven't looked at or thought about Starfield in probably a year. It sunk its claws into me deep, and I was burned super hard when I realized what the story narrative had done. Combine that with the thousand cuts of the poor game system design and its one of the biggest flops for me in a long long time. Cyberpunk 2077 at launch was a better game for me, narratively it offered more choice, and while the game had a lot of bugs, none of them made the game seem poorly designed or lesser. Starfield looks like a Frankenstein's monster with leftover parts from 10 years that just accumulated and eventually the third or fourth project manager/director got complete *enough* to ship. No one would confuse that with good.

They have a chance with an expansion to address many of these issues. I haven't been paying that much attention because fuck this game but I haven't heard the right things yet.

Maybe they've said them, or maybe they haven't lost enough money yet.

It's an albatross right now they need to get rid of before they launch anything else. It will weigh down ES6 for sure.

Bubbles · Monday at 10:51 AM

rhinohelix said:
That's a super high bar to get over, and no established company is every going to be able to reach it, man, but I support your choice; I am hopefully for a Phantom Liberty style improvement, although I don't get that kind of commitment vibe from Todd. Perhaps my concerns have been addressed, or I have a bad take on the gameplay/story etc. This is just what it looks like to me. My Top of mind list of What they need to do:

1) Unfuck the narrative. Every other Bethesda (and most other games period) have a narrative path forward, into the future. Because of the NG+/Multiverses are the new hotness choices they made probably 7 years ago and now and a couple years before release, Starfield is stuck at a narrative dead end; it always ends with the player entering the Unity and resetting the Timeline/moving to a different universe. Nothing can progress story wise past that point: The Starfield Universe can't change or evolve, new events can't happen, nothing can become cannon because the player is always going to enter the Unity. Fix this dead end, either with the expansion or an update but fix it.

2) Radically improve the gameplay: By this I mean the flow of travel within the game, from one location to another is like 7 loading screens. Using the Creation Engine again might have seemed like a good idea, and they talked it up before launch but we all saw the limitations, the loading screens, the loading screens, the loading screens. It didn't matter so much in the short run, but over Skyrim-type playthroughs, it makes doing anything too staccato. No one (well, I am not) asking for seamless lift offs from planet to space but lots of systems need better design.

3) Fix the graphics: You aren't going to get Cyberpunk level graphics out of the Creation engine but you need to improve the night club setting so the comparisons aren't humiliating.

4) Make the planets better: Planet exploration should be a top tier item, not hot rando garbage.

5) Fix the mods: They gave Skyrim so much life, this and so much more contribute to how Bethesda is seen as a company: If just for PR purposes, put this thing right.

All this is off the top of my head when I haven't looked at or thought about Starfield in probably a year. It sunk its claws into me deep, and I was burned super hard when I realized what the story narrative had done. Combine that with the thousand cuts of the poor game system design and its one of the biggest flops for me in a long long time. Cyberpunk 2077 at launch was a better game for me, narratively it offered more choice, and while the game had a lot of bugs, none of them made the game seem poorly designed or lesser. Starfield looks like a Frankenstein's monster with leftover parts from 10 years that just accumulated and eventually the third or fourth project manager/director got complete *enough* to ship. No one would confuse that with good.

They have a chance with an expansion to address many of these issues. I haven't been paying that much attention because fuck this game but I haven't heard the right things yet.

Maybe they've said them, or maybe they haven't lost enough money yet.

It's an albatross right now they need to get rid of before they launch anything else. It will weigh down ES6 for sure.

Microsoft just needs to start over with Bethesda. First they announce that they are getting rid of Todd. Then say that they are switching over to UE5 and therefore have to reset all the garbage Todd was working on (ES6). Players would actually welcome that delay with open arms.

Tuco · Monday at 11:14 AM

Bubbles said:
Microsoft just needs to start over with Bethesda. First they announce that they are getting rid of Todd. Then say that they are switching over to UE5 and therefore have to reset all the garbage Todd was working on (ES6). Players would actually welcome that delay with open arms.

Yeah fuck that, if they drop Todd Howard and other people I'm just going to expect ES6 to be watered down garbage. +1 for UE5 integration though.

Furry · Monday at 11:29 AM

Tuco said:
Yeah fuck that, if they drop Todd Howard and other people I'm just going to expect ES6 to be watered down garbage. +1 for UE5 integration though.

So you expect nothing to change?

Tuco · Monday at 11:40 AM

Furry said:
So you expect nothing to change?

I have hope in my heart.

rhinohelix · Monday at 7:58 PM

Bubbles said:
Microsoft just needs to start over with Bethesda. First they announce that they are getting rid of Todd. Then say that they are switching over to UE5 and therefore have to reset all the garbage Todd was working on (ES6). Players would actually welcome that delay with open arms.

I thought I had read that they were using UE5 for ES6; instead I find this, confirming that they are using the Creation Engine 2.0 for ES6?

Here's How Starfield Would Look Like With Unreal Engine 5: Did Todd Howard Make a Mistake With Creation Engine 2 for Elder Scrolls 6?

As Bethesda confirmed that Elder Scrolls 6 will be built on Creation Engine 2, fans are fuming about why devs skipped Unreal Engine 5.

fandomwire.com

Yes I am bitter. Fire. Everyone.

Furry · Monday at 8:01 PM

rhinohelix said:
I thought I had read that they were using UE5 for ES6; instead I find this, confirming that they are using the Creation Engine 2.0 for ES6?

Here's How Starfield Would Look Like With Unreal Engine 5: Did Todd Howard Make a Mistake With Creation Engine 2 for Elder Scrolls 6?

As Bethesda confirmed that Elder Scrolls 6 will be built on Creation Engine 2, fans are fuming about why devs skipped Unreal Engine 5.

fandomwire.com

Fire. Everyone.

Their textures are probably too low rez for UE5

rhinohelix · Monday at 8:11 PM

Furry said:
Their textures are probably too low rez for UE5

Do they want to spend the money now or spend the money later trying to repair a shitty game? Let's hire more DEI consultants to give in game characters pronouns.

Who needs good textures, or to avoid loading screens, or a coherent narrative, or fun gameplay systems? We already paid for the engine!

Denamian · Monday at 8:13 PM

rhinohelix said:
Do they want to spend the money now or spend the money later trying to repair a shitty game? Let's hire more DEI consultants to give in game characters pronouns.

Who needs good textures, or to avoid loading screens, or a coherent narrative, or fun gameplay systems? We already paid for the engine!

Why pay when modders will fix it for them? Even better if they can create a mod store where they can get a cut!

rhinohelix · Monday at 8:22 PM

Denamian said:
Why pay when modders will fix it for them? Even better if they can create a mod store where they can get a cut!

If there is anything they are working on fixing with the expansion, it's this. Microtransactions, horse armor, and community patches?

Furry · Monday at 8:27 PM

rhinohelix said:
Do they want to spend the money now or spend the money later trying to repair a shitty game? Let's hire more DEI consultants to give in game characters pronouns.

Who needs good textures, or to avoid loading screens, or a coherent narrative, or fun gameplay systems? We already paid for the engine!

If starfield is any indication, they'll let the players try their best to fix it and monetize the results.

Edit: Looks like literally everyone else beat me to the punch.

Talos · Tuesday at 3:19 AM

Yeah I watched some of this the other day. He says ES6 is going to be built on Starfield with some upgrades. Nasty guy. Bethesda is finished.

Utnayan · Tuesday at 9:37 AM

Furry said:
If any game since Morrowind and Fallout 3 is any indication, they'll let the players try their best to fix it and monetize the results.

Tuco · Tuesday at 1:56 PM

Really, if they switch from Gamebryo 8.0 to Unreal Engine (or any other engine) it shouldn't be done on an flagship Elder Scrolls or even Fallout title. They should release a game in a different setting. It's such a massive change and they'll need a long time to ramp up. If ES6 is closeish they should release it and then burn Gamebryo finally.

Utnayan · Tuesday at 2:15 PM

Tuco said:
Really, if they switch from Gamebryo 8.0 to Unreal Engine (or any other engine) it shouldn't be done on an flagship Elder Scrolls or even Fallout title. They should release a game in a different setting. It's such a massive change and they'll need a long time to ramp up. If ES6 is closeish they should release it and then burn Gamebryo finally.

I do not think it matters at this point. Most everyone at Bethesda is new(er) to the company and most of the folks responsible for Gamebryo and it's evolution to Creation are history. They would probably be better off using an engine that didn't suck complete donkey dick with the fresh DEI'ers employed working 4 hours a day on TES6.

Furry · Tuesday at 2:17 PM

Utnayan said:
They would probably be better off using an engine that didn't suck complete donkey dick with the fresh DEI'ers employed working 4 hours a day on TES6.

Why? Are you making the assumption that any of them know about coding and how to play games that aren't mobile?

Utnayan · Tuesday at 2:24 PM

Furry said:
Why? Are you making the assumption that any of them know about coding and how to play games that aren't mobile?

True. I suppose it wouldn't matter either way

Starfield - Fallout fallout that isn't ES6

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