Student Loans and the SAVE plan

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Sanrith Descartes

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Me and my sister did the same community college strat, although to finish off our high school. Her kids are doing the same thing.
Florida even has a law on the books that says any student who graduates from a community college in Fla with an AA is automatically accepted to the 9 state universities. Assuming you meet the min GPA on your AA.
 

Mist

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dissuade on-campus living
Evidence shows college students living with their parents perform the worst and have the highest drop-out rates. This is counterintuitive but supported by tons of evidence. If you're not living on or near campus, you're missing out massively on many of the benefits of college.

That said, on-campus living after the first year is generally not beneficial. Find something inexpensive near campus (probably impossible with housing costs these days.)

But kids need to get away from their parents' bullshit. Most couples start having major marital problems around the same time their kids are in college. Kids being directly exposed to that have extremely low success rates in college. It is statistically the highest predictor of poor outcomes.
 

Mist

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Florida even has a law on the books that says any student who graduates from a community college in Fla with an AA is automatically accepted to the 9 state universities. Assuming you meet the min GPA on your AA.
100% proponent of most kids going to community college first.

I'd say for 75% of college students, community college + work experience is way better than what you're going to get out of going directly to college. But the very high performers in high school who know exactly what they want to do should do the full 4+ year experience.
 
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Furry

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Evidence shows college students living with their parents perform the worst and have the highest drop-out rates. This is counterintuitive but supported by tons of evidence. If you're not living on or near campus, you're missing out massively on many of the benefits of college.

That said, on-campus living after the first year is generally not beneficial.

Why do you frame going to college as a positive? For most people it's just wasting shitloads of money to enter the labor force later while being poorer. That's not a positive. Most college students would be better off if they just bought a house instead.
 

Sanrith Descartes

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Why do you frame going to college as a positive? For most people it's just wasting shitloads of money to enter the labor force later while being poorer. That's not a positive. Most college students would be better off if they just bought a house instead.
Meh, it depends on the degree.
Stem - positive
Business - positive
Pre-med/nursing/health care in general - positive
Might be a few odd ones I missed.
 

Mist

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Why do you frame going to college as a positive? For most people it's just wasting shitloads of money to enter the labor force later while being poorer. That's not a positive. Most college students would be better off if they just bought a house instead.
I'm just saying "if you do go to college, you should do it X way"

I agree that way less people should go directly to a 4-year college today. In the current economy, more kids should get a job, move the fuck out, go to community college to learn the shit that high school failed to teach them correctly, THEN figure out what they want.

But if jobs start drying up for 18-year-olds, I could see this shifting. Idle young minds are bad for a ton of reasons. The government should subsize education more when the job market is bad for kids, and less when the job market is good for kids.
 

Mist

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Meh, it depends on the degree.
Stem - positive
Business - positive
Pre-med/nursing/health care in general - positive
Might be a few odd ones I missed.
Business students should be forced to work in an actual business fulltime for at least 3 years before going to business school. :) You'd get a lot less dumb ideas entering business, from either side.

Plus, most of the real lessons of business school are likely lost on kids who haven't ever worked in one.
 

Tuco

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Evidence shows college students living with their parents perform the worst and have the highest drop-out rates.
I'd prefer that you substantiate "all those shitty degrees heavily subsidize the extremely expensive STEM programs" before I got into how you'd control this data to draw enough conclusions to make general recommendations on on-campus vs off-campus living.

I definitely agree that giving students an opportunity to get out of a harmful home life can be a huge benefit.
 

Captain Suave

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Business students should be forced to work in an actual business fulltime for at least 3 years before going to business school. :) You'd get a lot less dumb ideas entering business, from either side.

Plus, most of the real lessons of business school are likely lost on kids who haven't ever worked in one.

Everyone should work low-end jobs for a couple years before higher education, if only so that they're inspired to get and keep their shit together. College would be a lot better if the students had some actual life experience.
 

sleevedraw

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Meh, it depends on the degree.
Stem - positive
Business - positive
Pre-med/nursing/health care in general - positive
Might be a few odd ones I missed.

Even STEM and healthcare is a mixed bag. A biology B.S. is basically useless without further education (the running joke is that the janitors in biology labs are people with bachelor's degrees). Not really sure what "pure" chemistry or physics degrees would be able get employment-wise, either (chem engineering being the exception and one of the few super-lucrative degrees where only a bachelor's is needed, but in my experience chem eng and chemistry are two different degrees).

Nursing, yes, you'll always have a job if you work clinical nursing, but it's a high-stress job that is figuratively and literally shitty. You can enter administration like myself, but once you make the decision to go administration track, you are railroaded into non-clinical for the rest of your career and open yourself up to more job insecurity than a clinical nurse. Nurse practitioner is a good job on paper, but it's a highly saturated field due to diploma mills (unless you want to move to Bumfuck, Nowhere). My sister is a speech pathologist, which was one of the "hot" degrees 5-10 years back, and all she's been able to find are part-time positions despite her getting out of her master's program with a 3.9 GPA.
 
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Siliconemelons

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Florida even has a law on the books that says any student who graduates from a community college in Fla with an AA is automatically accepted to the 9 state universities. Assuming you meet the min GPA on your AA.

The kicker is /program/ on this. I worked for a state college for neigh 20 years.

You can go from the state college (community college) and go to the university, they will accept you - /but/ the programs do not have to. So if you are trying to get into a competitive program, it is not a good path- nor a path you would take anywho if your a student and really should be going into the elite programs. But yes, for any normal degree, paying 2-3x to sit in UF/FSU/UCF/USF's giant lecture halls vs their regional state college is dumb, you can still "live the college life" for those two years if you really wanted.
 
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Mist

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I'd prefer that you substantiate "all those shitty degrees heavily subsidize the extremely expensive STEM programs"
Not exactly current data, but the easiest graph to digest. Engineering and computer science have grown considerably more expensive since this was compiled, due to having to keep salaries competitive with extremely high demand in the private sector:

1701709382322.png


TL;DR, programming teachers expensive, psych professors cheap!
 
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Tuco

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Not exactly current data, but the easiest graph to digest. Engineering and computer science have grown considerably more expensive since this was compiled, due to having to keep salaries competitive with extremely high demand in the private sector:

View attachment 502967

TL;DR, programming teachers expensive, psych professors cheap!
Thanks. Mathematicians on suicide watch.

Why are visual and performing arts so expensive? I'm guessing that's where a dance degree would be grouped in. I'm picking on dance majors because those degrees are the worst according to 21 most useless degrees and what to study instead - Degreechoices.com Is it just that they need to pay for a stage for these people to waste their time on?

Is your understanding that the way universities typically run budgets that departments with lower costs subsidize the departments with higher costs? I have no idea how large universities handle inter-dept budgets.
 

Mist

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Again, it's old data from 2009. Ethnic, Cultural and Gender Studies professors are probably a lot more common, and therefore a lot cheaper, now.

But top programming professors have gotten INSANELY expensive. There are a few colleges paying top ML professors over million a year, because they need to keep them from going to Google, OpenAI etc. Electrical engineering professors have gotten similarly expensive. Robotics programs cost bonkers amounts of money.
 

Mist

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Thanks. Mathematicians on suicide watch.

Why are visual and performing arts so expensive? I'm guessing that's where a dance degree would be grouped in. I'm picking on dance majors because those degrees are the worst according to 21 most useless degrees and what to study instead - Degreechoices.com Is it just that they need to pay for a stage for these people to waste their time on?

Is your understanding that the way universities typically run budgets that departments with lower costs subsidize the departments with higher costs? I have no idea how large universities handle inter-dept budgets.
Performing arts programs are extremely expensive per-student due to the fixed costs and relatively low enrollment rates. But the flipside is that those facilities are generally used for other things that improve student life in general.

But social sciences, communications, and similar degrees, which make up the bulk of undergrads, definitely help pay for the more expensive degrees.
 

TJT

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Thanks. Mathematicians on suicide watch.

Why are visual and performing arts so expensive? I'm guessing that's where a dance degree would be grouped in. I'm picking on dance majors because those degrees are the worst according to 21 most useless degrees and what to study instead - Degreechoices.com Is it just that they need to pay for a stage for these people to waste their time on?

Is your understanding that the way universities typically run budgets that departments with lower costs subsidize the departments with higher costs? I have no idea how large universities handle inter-dept budgets.
I remember a girl from my high school class. She had massive schlopper knockers. She got a degree in dance and ended up working at Red Robin until she was like 30.
 
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Kaines

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I remember a girl from my high school class. She had massive schlopper knockers. She got a degree in dance and ended up working at Red Robin until she was like 30.
Did she at least get her MRS degree?
 

TheBeagle

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A lot of it is tied to research grants the various departments bring it. Stem bring in a lot, gender studies not so much.
Yep. Every professor at my school in the Biological scienceshad varying numbers of research grants for their labs. I also know the Physics and Chem profs did the same. If you don't bring in grants you don't stay at the university. The idea that fag degrees were subsidizing our labs is the most nonsensical thing I've read this week. It's actually the other way around since Universities take their 47% cut off of any and all research grants the PI's bring in.
 
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