The Big Bad Console Thread - Sway your Station with an Xboner !

Vaclav · Jan 25, 2014

And this board is completely representative of the entirety of the world now? You're a genius. And for hating consoles didn't you just buying $1k worth just a few months ago? (Well, there with a game each at least)

Both have their ups and downs - not to mention on the value argument there's services that outstrip the value of PC by far like Gamefly for those that are swift with completing things, even a $30 purchase loses out to a $15 Gamefly subscription for anything you'll be finished with in under a month, and PC doesn't get Gamefly except for ancient shit. And of course the ability to recoup the "loss" on something by reselling a game another option that doesn't exist on PC (at least these days).

And honestly, graphically the difference is basically gone these days - AC4 running on the same TV with a top of the line ATI video card PC looks fundamentally identical - maybe paused screenshots would note some differences, but didn't bother that, just a run it and play "test". [Although note, there were notable differences with our Nvidia rig, but only because of the over the top smoke effects] And that's with something that was done quickly for console optimization. [And note, the PCs I'm comparing against that just match were $1.2k and $1.4k to build when they were new vs. a $400 console]

At the end of the day, if you're saving $10-20 a game every single time, you'd still need to assuming you're buying a full price game once a month (which I'd imagine is pretty normal), after a year you'd still have spent more getting an $800 PC together with those 12 games than just going the console route. (Unless say you're a college kid that convinced your parents to buy you a PC and the cost is immaterial - I like to assume people are adults though - kids and sane budget discussions don't go hand in hand) - and of course for a PC that $800 will likely need/want upgrades every couple years to stay up to snuff versus $400 that is top of the line for a minimum of 4 years.

Don't get me wrong, I love my PC - frankly, haven't touched my PS4 in a week in preference to it (although will restart soon as I get Tomb Raider for it - since I've not played the TR reboot yet) between MMX, ToME and other titles that will likely never be present on a console. The strongest argument for a PC is that it's for different types of games, not that it competes with consoles - consoles are their own thing and PCs are their own - with a limited amount of overlap that really matters.

Column_sl · Jan 25, 2014

And this board is completely representative of the entirety of the world now? You're a genius. And for hating consoles didn't you just buying $1k worth just a few months ago? (Well, there with a game each at leas

Rerolled may not represent the worlds gaming ,but it is a very nice footprint of real "Gamers" which are pretty much addicts.

BTW I don't hate consoles, I love games. What I do hate is console prices. I would never buy a console if it wasn't for theexclusive games.
Consoles offer nothing imho other then an option for people that can't afford a decent gaming rig.

Which goes back to my last statement...
Why would "I" buy a cross platform game on anything other then a PC.
PC gives me the superior experience at half the consoles price.

PC has the superior display, runs at a higher framerate, and much cleaner graphics.

consoles are their own thing and PCs are their own - with a limited amount of overlap that really matters.

Limited amount of overlap? lulz

That was true in the past, but not anymore. There a far less exclusives now.

The MS 360 controller, and it's adoption by pretty much every game coming out has helped change that playing field significantly.
PC does a better console then a console now.

PC is much more hassle free through Steam. I would much rather have a Jukebox of games at my fingertips, then having to constantly switch discs on a console.
One could argue more portable, given the power, and cooling of current small form factor cases.

And a 27 inch monitor with a really good gaming chair laid back with a gaming pad versus playing on a couch on a 55 inch screen.
IMHO , I enjoy the PC set up far more.

Not to mention the social aspects of it are far better.

Today's console seems like it striving to become a PC with it's metro styled interfaces, web browsing, apps etc.
The days of the console is it's own thing are long gone.

And honestly, graphically the difference is basically gone these days - AC4 running on the same TV with a top of the line ATI video card PC looks fundamentally identical

It really doesn't tho if you factor in the PC has the superior display tech.

I have a free version of AC4 for my PS4 running off a Sony KDL-55W900A ( the best gaming display on the market) vs another free version of AC4 running on a Titan with a Asus 144hz display.
That game is ugly as shit either way, but the two are not comparable in clarity, and smoothness of the PC.

Both have their ups and downs - not to mention on the value argument there's services that outstrip the value of PC by far like Gamefly for those that are swift with completing things, even a $30 purchase loses out to a $15 Gamefly subscription for anything you'll be finished with in under a month, and PC doesn't get Gamefly except for ancient shit. And of course the ability to recoup the "loss" on something by reselling a game another option that doesn't exist on PC (at least these days).

What exactly are the downs of owning a PC over a console?? Please create that list...

That there too expensive to build,and mantain? lol

Also on Gamefly, I've never had any luck with that service. Maybe it's better now, but I doubt it.
I've always got in games that look like someone ran them over concrete, and games that weren't even the ones I rented.

Rather just buy something on Steam that can be used forever, across multiple PC's, Tablets, and eventually Steam boxes.

Bottom line of all this is Console games are way to expensive for an inferior experience.
They should be priced competitively , and it looks like MS is finally seeing the light.

Microsoft Considering Making Digital Games Cheaper
It's "on the agenda.

Vaclav · Jan 25, 2014

On "gamers" you're just creating your own definition that suits your own argument - and to be honest - casual gamers outnumber the hardcore by a large swathe. If it was just guys like us, the market wouldn't be particularly viable. Look at TV for an example of how small of a minority we are - how many TV programs fit our portions of society? A half dozen to a dozen out of hundreds of shows. We're a subsection - even if the most prevalent countries for hardcore gaming it's still not an overwhelming amount of gamers that are hardcore.

And there's plenty that doesn't overlap - and those are what ends up defining each system is my point - if you're only chasing AAA stuff - yes most AAA stuff is cross-platform. But for all the small studio independent stuff, which there's an overwhelming amount of these days there's tons popping up all the time with bazillions on PC and a reasonable amount EVERY month on the Sony consoles. (Not sure where MS ones are, but they're probably doing some as well) And of course SOME AAA don't as well. And of course there's less overlap from PC to console than console to console as well - although the amount tends to be slight.

Social aspects being better are a mixed bag - to me, I'd agree - I prefer being a typist, so it's not really an option being communicative on the consoles for me - for all those that like to use a headset though? It's a seemless process on recent consoles just a click or two and go - PC often involves renting secondary servers and IP settings and making sure its configured in Windows properly ad nauseum. I prefer PC, you clearly prefer PC - plenty of people do not however because it's much more of a pain in the ass.

On AC4, maybe you can point it out in a screenshot or in the smoke effects (being an NV card) but 1080p vs 1080p with the same TV being used as a monitor the difference between PC and PS4 was less than PS4 vs. XBOne. Sure, PC can theoretically do higher resolution but then you're throwing a ton more money at the solution (you start talking closer to a $2000 rig including a fancy monitor) that's not even remotely in the same ballpark. "Ugly as shit" is a completely hyperbolic nonsense or a sign you didn't play the game however. [Or only did day 1-2 when there were a couple ugly textures on PS4 and the AA was still turned off before the "almost day one" patch]

Downs for the PC - Cost, resale options (honestly, you've never had a game you finished playing and have no desire to play again? OK....), Gamefly your experience isn't indicative of reality AT ALL - I've been dealing with them off and on for 7 years now and haven't had either experience even once, and most of the time I've been doing the 4 game plan so probably close to 100 games a year between the wife and I or 700 titles shipped total and ZERO times seeing those issues. Delivery time and receiving time are still a toss up frequently, that's the only complaint someone experienced in the service should have.

Additionally Steam titles aren't guaranteed to work across OS switches - I've had a couple where I have to do some pain in the ass work arounds to get to work when 7 and now 8 have graced my desktop. Some the developers handle, some they don't. (Hell, a few I still dual boot to run...)

It would be grand if console titles get cheaper (and PS - PS has been doing such for a while now - they do "Steam-like" preorder sales on digital copies moderately often even without PS+ sometimes beating Steam with ones where PS+ gets an extra discount - not as frequently as Steam, but it still happens) but to say that "consoles are more expensive" is looking at a Lamborghini vs. a Hummer and saying the Hummer is more expensive because it uses gas quicker (Don't shoot me if Lambo's use gas quick - its a hypothetical comparing two base units with different costs). A more expensive base unit with more expensive repairs makes it hard to just say savings in one area matters.

The only thing a PC has a slamdunk on is the ease of piracy. But if you really are a hardcore and care about the industry continuing you understand what overvaluing that can do of course.

Adebisi · Jan 25, 2014

Vaclav confirmed peasant apologist

Vorph · Jan 25, 2014

Steam is practically irrelevant for pre-orders now. Their discounts are almost never competitive with GMG or even GameFly. As for PS Store sales beating PC digital download prices, maybe on a day-to-day basis when there's a big sale on PSN and nothing more than a 20-25% off GameFly voucher for the PC version. Historically lowest price though? I doubt you could find a single instance where even the extra PS+ discount wins.

And while I agree with you about GameFly rentals, I'd go further and say that GameFly is the only reason I own consoles at all. I haven't had a single issue with GameFly in ages, and for the last couple years I've managed to get every game I wanted to play shipped to me on release day. GTA V was the first disk-based game I bought in over two years due to the retarded pricing, and Lightning Returns will probably be the only one I buy this year. In that two year period I had the GF one at a time plan going, so I probably played 25-30 rentals. You can criticize piracy on the PC but let's be honest here--used games and rentals are only slightly less bad for the developers of console games. I sympathize with PC developers, and I buy the games I pirate that turn out to be worth playing, but I won't feel bad about console devs at all because their industry brings it upon themselves. My only concession is that I will never buy a used game from Gamestop, though I do occasionally hit the Keep It button on GameFly when my $5 coupons are doubled up and about to expire. I have never traded in a used game of my own either.

As Column mentioned, Thief 4 is a pretty extreme example of how bad the disparity in pricing is these days. The only valid options imo are buying it for <$30 from GMG or renting it from GameFly. Renting it means no Bank Heist DLC, and in my case at least, playing the sure to be vastly inferior PS3 version. If you want to own the game on console, it's $60 with no discounts anywhere. Doesn't even matter if you're buying the PS3/360 version, old and new gen are the same fucking price. The same thing will happen with Dark Souls 2, Watch_Dogs, Witcher 3, and whatever other AAA multiplats are coming out this year.

Adebisi · Jan 25, 2014

$50 for Angry Birds PS4 digital purchase?

Seems legit.

Vaclav · Jan 25, 2014

Might have been a temporary promotion I locked in - but I got my Thief PS4 copy preordered at $44.99 sitting on my Amazon Pending Orders currently. (In fact looking like it, main website is showing $59.96 when I'm not logged in - still showing $44.99 due when it ships though... never seen a price go up after doing an order on Amazon, I know they lower prices if it drops - do they raise it if it goes up?)

And I'll agree rentals aren't much better for them, but when it comes down to it - for consoles people share titles around anyhow. And Gamefly supposedly pays 50% extra for each game they purchase based on some stuff I've seen people comment on before. (Not sure if it's accurate or not was just random rabblerousers on the net - but it is similar to how VHS rental copies used to be costed so sounds plausible. You could buy a VHS of something when it was "rental only" the same way Blockbuster did if you wanted to spend $100+ on it) But at least it's not just 1 copy covering millions like happens in piracy circles (or even 0 copies if it's an evaluation copy or insider that leaked it) - it's probably closer to 1 per 25 or something like that.

On PS3/360 pricing being different, I'm sure they will once their cycle is actually dying off - right now they want to encourage people to move onto the next gen so they can narrow development I'm sure - so if anything they'll likely promote PS4/XBOne pricing more than PS3/360 until they're about to sunset completely. They and Sony want people on the new hardware.

Adebisi: All the Angry Birds console ports have been insanely priced, it's not a new thing. It's an outlier though, PvZ would probably be the next closest comparison and it was $20 MSRP, no? [And Steam was like $10 I think?]

Vorph · Jan 25, 2014

Vaclav_sl said:
Might have been a temporary promotion I locked in - but I got my Thief PS4 copy preordered at $44.99 sitting on my Amazon Pending Orders currently. (In fact looking like it, main website is showing $59.96 when I'm not logged in - still showing $44.99 due when it ships though... never seen a price go up after doing an order on Amazon, I know they lower prices if it drops - do they raise it if it goes up?)

Not sure what promo you got on that but neither of the two major Amazon price trackers list it as ever having gone below $59.96. If they didn't pick it up the price then it was a very short sale. But no, Amazon always gives you the lowest price it hits between the time of your order and release day regardless of what the final price ends up being on the day it ships. I pre-ordered Lightning Returns sometime around a year ago to lock in any sale prices, and am currently enjoying sweet, sweet $0.03 savings over chumps who place their orders today!

Back to Thief, it's not like $45 is even a good price anyway, considering that the superior PC version can be had for less than $30.

Vaclav · Jan 25, 2014

Yea, I saw his mention of that deal - guess I got lucky in some way, perhaps a glitch. Has their been Thief review copies out to demonstrate "superior" as more than just supposition/opinion? (i.e. Tomb Raider PS4 vs. PC - I see you prefer PC still from what you've commented - but I prefer the PS4 ones from the article personally - and tested the wife without ID'ing which was which first and she came out preferring PS4 without bias of knowing which was which [And I would expect both being Squeenix their engines are similar])

Edit: I see why I got that "rare discount" - I think it's an employee discount - I did the P/O for it at a terminal in the building I interviewed in (it was huge, I think the warehouse was there in a different entrance) and it's showing a "Location Discount" for $15. Talked too much about gaming to the interviewer (since she was a gamer as well) and started my queue of PS4 games immediately after talking with her before leaving. (2 of the others I ordered then both show "Location Discounts" also - although $5 and $10 for those two) Silly if they do have it set up like that, although it was an invite only area though. If it is an Employee Discount I expect it to get rescinded when they ship it since I didn't get hired. [Unless they're taking ages getting back to me at least - I didn't follow up to make sure they opted against and not gotten a "No" call yet which I'd expect from an organization as professional as theirs...]

Vorph · Jan 25, 2014

Vaclav_sl said:
Has their been Thief review copies out to demonstrate "superior" as more than just supposition/opinion?

No, but:Thief PC specs revealed, include Mantle support | bit-gamer.net

"Superior" is just a given when the studio doing the porting is competent, and Nixxes is more than competent at what they do. It's a very safe bet that Thief will be a solid port that uses whatever PC hardware you have to its fullest. My computer is considerably more powerful than a PS4, plus I have a GPU compatible with AMD's Mantle API, so there's zero reason to expect anything short of a full DX11 implementation with real antialiasing.

And the Tomb Raider situation isn't really relevant to Thief, whether or not you agree that the PC version still looks better overall. PS4 Thief isn't getting an extra 6+ months of dev time to add a bunch of features that didn't exist in the game engine last year. They're using the same engine and feature set for Thief, and if anything it will be the console versions that are missing DX11 features. When you're targeting 1080p60 and the framerates start to dip, things like tessellation and SSAO tend to get axed even though the API supports them on all platforms. But that's just speculation, and they could very well pull it off without having to cut any of the things known for being serious fps hits. We'll see next month, I guess.

Edit: Your explanation of the discount you got makes much more sense now. I've never paid less than the full $60 for a PS3 game from Amazon on release day, unless you count the $10 off vouchers they used to give for your next purchase. They stopped offering those about the time I stopped buying PS3 games entirely (not a coincidence!).

Vaclav · Jan 25, 2014

True enough - although it is interesting that it's listed as a "port to PC" in that article - which often doesn't bode well. But I'll be the first to admit I'm not in the loop on Mantle at all. (And I run a 7990 on this machine so I'm Mantle ready as well - as long as there's no CPU bottlenecks, my CPU bottlenecks as it is with DX)

Out of curiosity what site is doing the $30 promo anyhow? I'm not seeing it with the usual suspects.