The D&D thread

Got another dragon fight coming up in our next session. I'm going to try to drop 2 tons of rock on its head again. Wish me luck. Last time I never got a chance because the dragon kept killing everyone and I had to heal.

Does silvery barbs override that legendary action where you can fail a save and instead decide to pass it? The wording on silvery barbs doesn't say it gives disadvantage, it says they must reroll the d20 and use the lower roll. I'm not sure what the wording is on that legendary action. I don't even know what it's called, I just know dragons can do it.

Hoss said:

Got another dragon fight coming up in our next session. I'm going to try to drop 2 tons of rock on its head again. Wish me luck. Last time I never got a chance because the dragon kept killing everyone and I had to heal.

Does silvery barbs override that legendary action where you can fail a save and instead decide to pass it? The wording on silvery barbs doesn't say it gives disadvantage, it says they must reroll the d20 and use the lower roll. I'm not sure what the wording is on that legendary action. I don't even know what it's called, I just know dragons can do it.

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Legendary Resistance is basically worded as X times a day a creature can choose to pass a save instead of failing, there is no reroll or anything else for Silvery Barbs to target, it is automatic.

Indyocracy said:

Legendary Resistance is basically worded as X times a day a creature can choose to pass a save instead of failing, there is no reroll or anything else for Silvery Barbs to target, it is automatic.

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I was thinking after the initial roll. For instance he passes the save, I silvery barb him and he fails. Does he still get to use the legendary resistance, or does the wording in SB that says he must use the lower roll stop that.

If he chooses to pass anyway, he's not using that lower roll.

Or are you saying the legendary save is done without a roll? Because I figured it would be something you decide after the roll fails.

Hoss said:

I was thinking after the initial roll. For instance he passes the save, I silvery barb him and he fails. Does he still get to use the legendary resistance, or does the wording in SB that says he must use the lower roll stop that.

If he chooses to pass anyway, he's not using that lower roll.

Or are you saying the legendary save is done without a roll? Because I figured it would be something you decide after the roll fails.

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So in this case he would use the lower roll, fail, and then use legendary resistance to succeed instead. Essentially Legendary resistance deals with the result step and not the roll step of a saving throw check. No matter how many times you alter the roll via Barbs, portent, disadvantage, ect once you move to the results stage and the creature fails they then have the ability to use a Legendary Resistance to say

Indyocracy said:

So in this case he would use the lower roll, fail, and then use legendary resistance to succeed instead. Essentially Legendary resistance deals with the result step and not the roll step of a saving throw check. No matter how many times you alter the roll via Barbs, portent, disadvantage, ect once you move to the results stage and the creature fails they then have the ability to use a Legendary Resistance to say
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Damn.

But you said something interesting. I never thought about it, but silvery barbs would 'stack' with disadvantage, wouldn't it? Normally advantage/disadvantage doesn't stack at all. But if the creature already has disadvantage and passes, SB can make him roll one more time, right? That's pretty cool.

I had never heard of portent. That looks pretty fun. We have a finger waggler in the group, but I guess he went a different path.

Hoss said:

Damn.

But you said something interesting. I never thought about it, but silvery barbs would 'stack' with disadvantage, wouldn't it? Normally advantage/disadvantage doesn't stack at all. But if the creature already has disadvantage and passes, SB can make him roll one more time, right? That's pretty cool.

I had never heard of portent. That looks pretty fun. We have a finger waggler in the group, but I guess he went a different path.

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This is why Barbs is so op lol, its the opposite of elven accuracy. It allows for essentially super disadvantage

Portent is one of my favorite abilities because it just feels fun to use, when you have a crit or nat 1 stored nothing feels better lol

I need someone to explain multiclassing to me. I don't understand how the spells and the class tables integrate.

I'm a level 8 bard. We just gained a level and I'm thinking of taking a 3 level dip in warlock. I believe the proficiency bonus is total player level, not class level. So that would go up to 4. Do I get to add the cantrip and spell slot numbers together?

Also considering sorcerer since it's also a charisma caster. Any thoughts?

Hoss said:

I need someone to explain multiclassing to me. I don't understand how the spells and the class tables integrate.

I'm a level 8 bard. We just gained a level and I'm thinking of taking a 3 level dip in warlock. I believe the proficiency bonus is total player level, not class level. So that would go up to 4. Do I get to add the cantrip and spell slot numbers together?

Also considering sorcerer since it's also a charisma caster. Any thoughts?

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You are correct proficiency is based on character level, there is nothing lost from multiclassing except ability score improvement/feats could be missed.

So Warlock is special, pact magic is a seperate class feature and the spell slots don't "mix". So a 3 lvl dip would give you 2, 2nd lvl spell slots; 4 spells know, and 2 cantrips.

If you went Sorceror you would progress in spells essentially as normal as both Bard and Sorc are full casters, you always get cantrips when multiclassing. This link explains it pretty well, ill quote from it: Multiclassing - 5th Edition SRD

"Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes, and half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes. Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table. (Table is identical to the Bard spell table)

If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare. You can use those slots, but only to cast your lower-level spells. If a lower-level spell that you cast, like burning hands, has an enhanced effect when cast using a higher-level slot, you can use the enhanced effect, even though you don't have any spells of that higher level."

The advantage for going sorc is spell variety, Lore bards do that better imo.

2 levels of Warlock for agonizing blast on eldritch blast is a classic multiclass for bards as their cantrip damage is kind of low so the d10+cha is a big upgrade but you slow down access to your big spells.

Indyocracy said:

You are correct proficiency is based on character level, there is nothing lost from multiclassing except ability score improvement/feats could be missed.

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I looked at it more closely last night and the ASI comes at level 4. So I'm not sure why people talk about a 3 level dip. Surely you want to do 4 if you multiclass to get that ASI, right? Or is that not as important at higher levels? I know my charisma is already 22 so on my next one I'm either putting it in con, dex, or a feat.

Indyocracy said:

"Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes, and half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes. Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table. (Table is identical to the Bard spell table)

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I notice warlock isn't on this list at all. So it would be just 2 more spell slots? Are the cantrips good enough to be worth it? How is a warlock supposed to fight normally? Are they melee? Do they spam eldritch blast?

Indyocracy said:

you always get cantrips when multiclassing.

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What does that mean? If I multi classed now, would I know 3 cantrips or 5? I get 3 as a level 8 bard and 2 as a level 1 warlock.

I noticed that at level 10 bard I get to learn 2 spells or cantrips from anywhere. But the wording of it says that if I learn cantrips, they count as bard spells for me. So if I were to use that lvl 10 feature to learn eldritch blast, would I be casting it as a cantrip or burning a spell slot?

Hoss said:

I looked at it more closely last night and the ASI comes at level 4. So I'm not sure why people talk about a 3 level dip. Surely you want to do 4 if you multiclass to get that ASI, right? Or is that not as important at higher levels? I know my charisma is already 22 so on my next one I'm either putting it in con, dex, or a feat.



I notice warlock isn't on this list at all. So it would be just 2 more spell slots? Are the cantrips good enough to be worth it? How is a warlock supposed to fight normally? Are they melee? Do they spam eldritch blast?



What does that mean? If I multi classed now, would I know 3 cantrips or 5? I get 3 as a level 8 bard and 2 as a level 1 warlock.

I noticed that at level 10 bard I get to learn 2 spells or cantrips from anywhere. But the wording of it says that if I learn cantrips, they count as bard spells for me. So if I were to use that lvl 10 feature to learn eldritch blast, would I be casting it as a cantrip or burning a spell slot?

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Sorry, if you multiclass as a spell caster you gain cantrips for that class always, then the spell slots follow the chart. Them counting as "bard spells" mean they use charisma for saves and spell attack even if they were originally from a class that uses a different stat for spell casting.

Warlocks are not in the list because pact magic which is their spellcasting method is a seperate thing entirely as the slots reset on short rest and they level up with your warlock level. It is debatable if 1d10 (2 beams at 9, 3 beams at 11) is worth it, if you take agonizing blast for the +charisma dmg it is a much bigger boost. 3 × 1d10+6 is decent damage per round compared to 3d4 from vicious mockery for base bard cantrips. It is an investment of 2 levels and 1 of your 2 invocations though. You could just take eldritch blast with your secret and lose out on the +6 per beam, it would not use a spell slot.

The ASI is nice but you slow down your higher level bard spells and can't get 9th lvl spells ever.

Indyocracy said:

The ASI is nice but you slow down your higher level bard spells and can't get 9th lvl spells ever.

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I haven't even looked at the higher level bard spells. I'm using the level 8 and 9 spell slots on my character sheet to keep track of feats I might want to take and attuned items. I looked at the table and you get the 9th level spells at 17. I guess that's why people only do a 3 level dip. Is it normal to play a character all the way to 20 and then go on some adventures after that?

Hoss said:

I haven't even looked at the higher level bard spells. I'm using the level 8 and 9 spell slots on my character sheet to keep track of feats I might want to take and attuned items. I looked at the table and you get the 9th level spells at 17. I guess that's why people only do a 3 level dip. Is it normal to play a character all the way to 20 and then go on some adventures after that?

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No, typically play stops between 12-14 because the game gets very hard for dms to keep balanced once 7th, 8th, and 9th lvl spells come into play. You get teleport as a bard at 7th which simplifies lots of travel related challenge or timeline/deadline issues the dm may have tried to set.

Indyocracy said:

No, typically play stops between 12-14 because the game gets very hard for dms to keep balanced once 7th, 8th, and 9th lvl spells come into play. You get teleport as a bard at 7th which simplifies lots of travel related challenge or timeline/deadline issues the dm may have tried to set.

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YeaH I was looking at my level 5 spells and there are some good ones I never expected to be able to do. teleportation circle is one and that eliminates a lot of travel problems too. I didn't expect to get greater restoration or raise dead either.

Awaken, rary's telepathic bond, and mislead all look fun too. Dammit why can I only take one?

Hoss said:

YeaH I was looking at my level 5 spells and there are some good ones I never expected to be able to do. teleportation circle is one and that eliminates a lot of travel problems too. I didn't expect to get greater restoration or raise dead either.

Awaken, rary's telepathic bond, and mislead all look fun too. Dammit why can I only take one?

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Animate object can be fun as well. Carry a silverware set, animate 10 knives, use your bonus action to make 10 attacks with +8 to hit for 1d4+4dmg each for up to 10 rounds.

And if you happen to find a huge statue you can animate it as well, lotta cool environmental options if your dm adds details to your battle maps.