The Elder Scrolls Online

BubbySoup_sl said:

Haha, I did exactly the same thing in that village. And really, fuck that quest hard. I spent 20 minutes doing what should have been a 3 minute quest due to everyone else trying to put out fires. This is what really fucks me off about modern MMO's. Almost from the start I felt like an ant carrying my piece of cake in a long line of exact same other ants. We all run to the quest giver, then we all run to the location, then through the "dungeon", back out, rinse repeat. I just kept seeing the same people over & over, all following the exact same route as me, and yet nobody speaks. Even when this quest I came across was bugged and there were about 10 other players standing about, I asked in say, "this bugged?". Nobody, nothing. It's like other players are just an inconvenience to tolerate. How did MMO's become like this??

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ahem.. GW2...


But yeah. I have thought more then a few times while playing this.
Why isn't this game harder?

Increases mob damage and hp 50%. And suddenly all those people running by saying nothing. will be jumping in to help you. YOU will be helping them.
It would completely change the experience with this game. and be 100x better for it.

mkopec_sl said:

Spot on bro. This shit is just so fucking old at this point. This genre has to either go a different direction altogether or just go back to olsdchool killing shit for exp and camping out dungeons. Anything is better than this crap. Im done with questing mmos. And this game right here just sealed the coffin for me.

I don't even think Im gonna pick this one up, even for the PvP. Or ill wait for it to go F2P, which undoubtedly it will.

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Aside from WoW's quest driven leveling and EQ1's sit on your ass in one spot grind fest what other alternative design for leveling in MMOs is possible? I am not aware of any.

Rescorla_sl said:

Aside from WoW's quest driven leveling and EQ1's sit on your ass in one spot grind fest what other alternative design for leveling in MMOs is possible? I am not aware of any.

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DDO - Narrated Dungeon Crawling
Secret World - you get exp for Puzzle solving
GW2 - level for crafting or for PvP or for WvWvW

Rescorla_sl said:

Aside from WoW's quest driven leveling and EQ1's sit on your ass in one spot grind fest what other alternative design for leveling in MMOs is possible? I am not aware of any.

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Stop trying to argue mechanics. The mechanics of the game are fine. The design is good. The bugs and quirks need to be addressed but it's no different from any other MMO release. I'll trust the people who say some of the combat issues are fixed. The newbee levels were made tough, so the game designers are listening.

The people in rerolled primarily fall into two categories: Those who are addicted to WOW through character progression and/or friends and those who are burnt out MMO addicts. This game really won't appeal to either because it's not built in that vein. The fact that many people here like or hate this game is irrelevent. The vast majority despised SWTOR. They bought it, for some odd reason, but it was so absolutely terrible bad it would kill EA. If you really want a laugh, go read that thread.

The interview everyone slammed due to a soundbite actually had a good point in that innovating is not as important as fun. I agree.

TESO in my opinion is a better game than Rift or GW2. I've been casual enough the last year to be able to enjoy a game for what it offers, and not need to hit level 12 in two hours or try and compare the adrenaline of raiding to the level process that a ton of people in this thread are doing.

I think TESO will make money. I'd be surprised if it didn't keep a good chunk of subs for a few years. A lot depends on how the game is tuned when it rolls out, and how content is added. If we're lucky it'll add a chunk of fresh new gamers, and maybe some people who haven't invested 10,000 hours into MMOs.

This is the second weekend I've tried this game. I just didn't have any fun really. Not making silly claims that this is the worst mmo ever made, or anything ridiculous like that. It just wasn't fun to me. I enjoyed SWTOR well enough in beta, and for 2 moths after launch. Played Rift about 4 months, GW2 just 1, and FF14 for a couple as well. Those games weren't great or anything, but I had fun. This game, not so much. Can't even really say exactly why, tbh. Just my opinion. I'd say I was just tired of mmos, but I've enjoyed Wildstar enough the past few months in beta, so who knows?

Dmitry_sl said:

DDO - Narrated Dungeon Crawling
Secret World - you get exp for Puzzle solving
GW2 - level for crafting or for PvP or for WvWvW

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You get quests to crawl through a dungeon and they give you xp.
You get a quest to solve a puzzle and after you solve it and turn the quest in, you get xp.
You get xp for harvesting a node.

How about removing experience, experience which comes from the 30 year old game Dungeons and Dragons, and create goals. If you defeat monster X you become level 3. IDK, that's still like a quest. How about like Second Life and just make everyone max level at the start?

Dmitry_sl said:

DDO - Narrated Dungeon Crawling
Secret World - you get exp for Puzzle solving
GW2 - level for crafting or for PvP or for WvWvW

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yeah. crafting. pvp.
dungeon running. some do this better then others. not just a one time quest exp run.

the public quest was the biggest innovation.
started with warhammer.
pretty sure there was at least one before Rift.

GW2 nearly perfected it.
no !. quests are just there. and you pick them up naturally just by standing there. allowing you to hotjoin into the fight at any time, and with ease.

There is still room for improvement there of course. Rift also was so close, but so far away. Rifts really really needed to be embraced more.
GW2 was close. but I think it was undermined by hearts. And, the fact, doing events was just exp, karma, and cash. it needed something "more". Something more tangible. rare crafting mats maybe.
Exploration probably could have been more rewarding as well. Jumping puzzles were nice. but maybe more exploration that would spawn bosses with unique loot.

Fingz_sl said:

How about removing experience, experience which comes from the 30 year old game Dungeons and Dragons, and create goals. If you defeat monster X you become level 3. IDK, that's still like a quest. How about like Second Life and just make everyone max level at the start?

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The only two really successful MMOs that weren't AD&D/DIKU derived are SWG and EVE. Lucasarts torqued SOE into turning SWG into a WOW clone soon after, so really we have.. EVE. GW2 really had some shiny things, but it was built more single player than anything.

The reason they are used is because they are easy to design and easy to add content to in a linear manner.

My hope is Star Citizen will be the game I'm looking for: Sandbox, Open, Economy/Trade focused, Player driven, and without static scripted events or quest hubs. However, until that releases I'm happy to play the plethora of F2P options and buy a game that looks fun to me like TESO, and play it casually.

Also, never underestimate the power of the skinner box. Ding level up.

Part of the reason I don't understand level caps.
There is no max level in cookie clicker.

MMOs need to go back to no level caps. Make it so progression NEVER ends.
It doesn matter how slow that end game progression is, as long as there is some, people will keep playing.


Which is arguable another problem here. haha.
1-10 is just way too slow. its missing that hook.
First 5 levels should be gained in about 30minutes max.
2hours for level 10 and the pvp zone, again, MAX. shorter probably better.

*shrug* I'm enjoying myself... Quite a bit actually. I went destro-staff sorc this time.

-the world is gorgeous, and the game runs like a dream even on my GF's mid-range rig
-The leveling speed is right where I like it.
-being able to effectively play in 1st person is a real joy for me.
-the UI is perfect for me, and i love the controls over all
-I really prefer the compass to a mini-map
-combat feels much better to me than it has in previous builds that I tried... Dare I say... I'm enjoying it
-plenty of little decisions to make while questing, which I dig
-I love finding the treasure maps. Very neat.
-the class system is really nice. Different. Interesting possibilities.

If you keep shit in perspective, this game is well worth the box price. Production value is high, and there are some interesting little nuances for general MMORPG fans. They certainly aren't reinventing the wheel here, though. The questing is just like everything else you've ever played, so smoke a joint and enjoy the ride. Also, if you can't enjoy an MMORPG without being in a group, I suggest you pass on this one. I got to level 10 last night without saying a word to anyone.

Quaid_sl said:

If you keep shit in perspective, this game is well worth the box price. Production value is high, and there are some interesting little nuances for general MMORPG fans. They certainly aren't reinventing the wheel here, though. The questing is just like everything else you've ever played, so smoke a joint and enjoy the ride. Also, if you can't enjoy an MMORPG without being in a group, I suggest you pass on this one. I got to level 10 last night without saying a word to anyone.

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I'm in the same boat, but I disagree about groups. The game has great grouping tools and there is a lot of grouping content supposedly on the horizon (Higher levels). Everytime I'm on I tend to jump in a group just for the social aspect. However, early levels should have more group content which would make the game more fun.

I think there are a lot of valid complaints about this game, but the main one is just it's not built to take hardcore WOW people, but TES/DAOC/Bioware ones moreso. Most of this board are WOW/Blizzard peeps. The game built for them would be Wildstar.

Gecko_sl said:

I'm in the same boat, but I disagree about groups. The game has great grouping tools and there is a lot of grouping content supposedly on the horizon (Higher levels).

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Awesome! I haven't gotten to a higher level than 15, so I hope this is true.

Information about their endgame group content will seal the deal for me. If it's legit they get my monies.

I'm only level 6, and a few hours in. Here are my thoughts on the game:

-The character progression system is fun. I like the speed in which my skills max out. I like getting skill ups in my different overall skill likes (Dual Wield, Dark Magic etc.). To me that's almost levels inside levels. I like the thought process of picking abilities and passives. I like the whole customization system even if eventually you could potentially have everything.

-I hate the softcaps the way they are. It just creates what could be a deep system into an incredibly shallow one. They are working on this supposedly so we'll see.

-I love the combat mechanics. I like the free movement, I like the targeting. I haven't tried group play so that opinion may change.

-The animations, feedback and visceral feeling combat is mediocre to average. However, for once I really don't mind the lack of good looking combat.

-I'm using the Combat Log/Text addons for my UI. The log addons really reminds me of a MUD combat system back in the day. I wish I could customize the look of that log a little bit better. Right now it's too utilitarian. In any case, these two addons rally help though the scrolling combat text is really fucking awful. Someone needs to fix that shit.

-The world (I'm going through Khaajit area) is really good looking and I was surprised by this. It's really nice looking. The world design of the starter area is quite good. Mob density isn't so thick that makes traveling a chore. Combat speed is fast so if I run into a creature I can kill it quickly.

- Luckily I can skip through the quest VO quickly. I have no idea if the story is good or not, I don't give a fuck. Coldharbor is stupid. I don't know who or what I am supposed to be. I guess if I cared, the story is presented in a non-shitty way. IDGAF about lore for the most part.

- Quests in this game consist of running around and doing boring shit. I wasn't expecting anything different. It's no better or no worse than WOW/Rift/GW2. I suspect grinding mobs would be just as fast in some situations. GW2 had a better delivery system with hearts and events but it amounted to the same thing. Find the shiny places on the map and do dumb shit in them. GW2 at least had a shared experience. TESO seems to be retarded in that fashion.The phase system is nutty. I don't really care about it though. It's stupid but who cares.

Playing 10000s of hours in the last decade+ of quest driven games, there is no way you can make this shit special to me anymore. Until you can make the game react to me, it's all the same no matter how you wrap it up. It's all scripted which is why GW2 was a massive disappoint to me.

Hopefully combat/creatures get more difficult. Right now, I think TESO is a better game than Wildstar just based on the class systems alone.

- Let's talk about crafting. To those of you bitching about crafting, just shut the fuck up. No one really cares about crafting unless you figured out a way to exploit the economy. Crafting in all these games is stupid and pointless most of the time. Just be thankful they allow you to pull mats from a bank.

- I really like the no minimap and compass. I find myself paying more attention to the game world instead of watching a minimap.

The game has its warts for sure. I really don't see how you can like this significantly more or less than SWTOR. If they fix the bugs some people are experiencing, they have a really average game on their hands that will make them money. If you compare games these days that cost $50 and you get 10 hours of play from them, this game holds up to that bar at least.

Gecko_sl said:

I think TESO will make money. I'd be surprised if it didn't keep a good chunk of subs for a few years. A lot depends on how the game is tuned when it rolls out, and how content is added.

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I don't think I've seen one person on this thread say it won't make any money. I'm pretty sure most people are going on about how boring, insipid and uninspired it is as a project. Since I personally haven't played it, I've refrained from calling it so, but just as you categorize two types of posters for Rerolled generally, the same thing holds true to TESO around any gaming forum I've been checking out:

1) The vast majority of people who are not diehard TES fans are saying this game is flat-out boring overall ranging from "Don't buy this meh shit" to "Wait a few months to buy this meh shit"

2) The vast majority of people who are diehard TES are calling all those people 'haters', almost to a rule.

I guess the same could be true for any IP where it's fanboy vs troll, but even with TOR I didn't see the early level of "run away" as much as I've seen it with TESO. It was later most people ran when they got to the end (usually Ilum) and they usually found several things worth hanging on until then for.

All I see now is 'Well, the PvP better be orgasmic, or this game will not have one redeeming quality other than it looks kinda pretty in a brown way', which is what they said about FFXIV 1.0 (not the brown/pvp part of course). That's what saved DAoC; no one played that to quest, it was the factional PvP that sold it.. people stayed because it was actually very good. We do not know this overall from this game as all anyone usually sees are skirmish PvP pwnage with a few players fighting people who don't know how to play or make builds.

Boloboy_sl said:

when you say this is like every other mmo and they are just wow clones is hilarious. You really believe wow was the holy grail and everyone copied? I think you don't like mmos.. Its ok man move on.

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were you referring to me with this post? have no idea what you're even talking about. i assure you i don't for a second believe that WoW is the holy grail of MMO's, but yes, every MMO since WoW has been a WoW clone. that much is true, and this game is no different. linear, quest driven leveling on rails and boring ass story lines. sounds just like WoW to me.

Tarrant_sl said:

I like the whole "I don't like crafting so I'll just say fuck crafting no one likes crafting" argument.

I know tons of people, myself included that love crafting. in EQ2, LoTR, WoW, Rift, SWtOR...in every game I play I spend hours and hours crafting and farming. It's a major aspact of any game for many people. Giving a generalized "no one likes crafting" is getting as ignorant as a person can get. You could use this argument as a counter to any of things things you like or dislike about a game so it's a useless statement.

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ok. but do you agree crafting in themeparks is an exercise in futility? Or do you actually like the implementation.
I love crafting.. with UO being my first mmo. And I spent way more time on my miner/blacksmith then anything else.
But to compare to that... furniture, weapons with quality, degradation, etc.
Crafting in themeparks is... a joke.. It really is closest to cookieclicker. you are practically doing it just for completionist reasons. pretty sure that was 90% of the reasoning for GW2 cooking.

It actually interferes with the leveling process more often then not.

Quaid_sl said:

*shrug* I'm enjoying myself... Quite a bit actually. I went destro-staff sorc this time.

-the world is gorgeous, and the game runs like a dream even on my GF's mid-range rig
-The leveling speed is right where I like it.
-being able to effectively play in 1st person is a real joy for me.
-the UI is perfect for me, and i love the controls over all
-I really prefer the compass to a mini-map
-combat feels much better to me than it has in previous builds that I tried... Dare I say... I'm enjoying it
-plenty of little decisions to make while questing, which I dig
-I love finding the treasure maps. Very neat.
-the class system is really nice. Different. Interesting possibilities.

If you keep shit in perspective, this game is well worth the box price. Production value is high, and there are some interesting little nuances for general MMORPG fans. They certainly aren't reinventing the wheel here, though. The questing is just like everything else you've ever played, so smoke a joint and enjoy the ride. Also, if you can't enjoy an MMORPG without being in a group, I suggest you pass on this one. I got to level 10 last night without saying a word to anyone.

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I'm right with you. I am an avid lover of all things MMORPG - ESO delivers. I strictly play in 1st person and I am enjoying myself. The game has many issues, but it certainly isnt a horrible game.
I'll be playing for the time bring. How long I stick around is entirely dependent on future, competing games that release.