The Elder Scrolls Online

Caliane_sl said:

ok. but do you agree crafting in themeparks is an exercise in futility? Or do you actually like the implementation.
I love crafting.. with UO being my first mmo. And I spent way more time on my miner/blacksmith then anything else.
But to compare to that... furniture, weapons with quality, degradation, etc.
Crafting in themeparks is... a joke.. It really is closest to cookieclicker. you are practically doing it just for completionist reasons. pretty sure that was 90% of the reasoning for GW2 cooking. .

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Technically, everything in MMOs is a waste of time. All those hundreds of hours of raids to be obsoleted by expansions? All those dailies or faction grinding again, to be deemed worthless via mudflation?

Crafting actually provides things that stimulate the economy, provide social interaction, and are accomplishments that are not solely based on being a Monster Hunter so I'd argue they are the least futile things.

SWG had the best implementation by far of any game, including UO for crafting. The problem is it was and probably still is ahead of it's time.

The big problem with crafting is the same as questing. In most cases it's a been there, done that setup.

Felmega_sl said:

I'm right with you. I am an avid lover of all things MMORPG - ESO delivers. I strictly play in 1st person and I am enjoying myself. The game has many issues, but it certainly isnt a horrible game.
I'll be playing for the time bring. How long I stick around is entirely dependent on future, competing games that release.

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i love the fact that a ringing endorsement of a game in the MMO industry right now is "eh, it isn't terrible."

Tarrant_sl said:

I like the whole "I don't like crafting so I'll just say fuck crafting no one likes crafting" argument.

I know tons of people, myself included that love crafting. in EQ2, LoTR, WoW, Rift, SWtOR...in every game I play I spend hours and hours crafting and farming. It's a major aspact of any game for many people. Giving a generalized "no one likes crafting" is getting as ignorant as a person can get. You could use this argument as a counter to any of things things you like or dislike about a game so it's a useless statement.

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Good for you I guess.

Gecko_sl said:

Technically, everything in MMOs is a waste of time. All those hundreds of hours of raids to be obsoleted by expansions? All those dailies or faction grinding again, to be deemed worthless via mudflation?

Crafting actually provides things that stimulate the economy, provide social interaction, and are accomplishments that are not solely based on being a Monster Hunter so I'd argue they are the least futile things.

SWG had the best implementation by far of any game, including UO for crafting. The problem is it was and probably still is ahead of it's time.

The big problem with crafting is the same as questing. In most cases it's a been there, done that setup.

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SWG/UO considered crafting a major portion of it's design, so it wasn't a minor implementation to the overall game design. EVE too has a game where crafting/trading is a major pillar in that game. The same can't be said for SWTOR/Rift/WOW. It seems Tarrant created the HGTV niche in EQ2 which seems to be a pretty unique experience. But I guess you'll find niche experiences like that in any game which a healthy population.

etchazz_sl said:

i love the fact that a ringing endorsement of a game in the MMO industry right now is "eh, it isn't terrible."

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Or that it 'has a high production value'.. snarf.

TESO commentary, and the genre itself has devolved into this:

Utnayan_sl said:

1 Gold, 2 Gold, 3 Gold, 4.

Wait until you start looting blue items out of a dungeon, only to see the next dungeon drop the same name of the item and the same graphic but better stats :\

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Oh mannnn. I was being sarcastic with the 3 gold thing. Fudge. Hopefully, it's something they can do after they fix the servers at release.

etchazz_sl said:

i love the fact that a ringing endorsement of a game in the MMO industry right now is "eh, it isn't terrible."

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Hehehe so true and I am so damn guilty of this. TESO rocks in a truly mediocre there is nothing else new out there way. TOTALLY ROCKS THAT WAY!!

I am psyched!

Jackdaddio_sl said:

I don't think I've seen one person on this thread say it won't make any money. I'm pretty sure most people are going on about how boring, insipid and uninspired it is as a project. Since I personally haven't played it, I've refrained from calling it so, but just as you categorize two types of posters for Rerolled generally, the same thing holds true to TESO around any gaming forum I've been checking out:

1) The vast majority of people who are not diehard TES fans are saying this game is flat-out boring overall ranging from "Don't buy this meh shit" to "Wait a few months to buy this meh shit"

2) The vast majority of people who are diehard TES are calling all those people 'haters', almost to a rule.

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From what I've seen the "diehard TES fans" have been the loudest detractors (aside from Utnayan), with comically regurgitated usage of the words "lore" and "immersion."

Utnayan_sl said:

Just wait until you see higher level itemization.

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Ya, guessing its just more of the same...crap, just will longer research times.

asfastasican_sl said:

Aside from crap that ruined server economies, I felt like the only game you could have played "just for the crafting" was Everquest 2. I have to give props where props are due. Most other MMO's have decent crafting systems. A few have pretty crappy systems though. I couldn't really pass judgement on ESO's crafting, but from what I saw, I didn't like it too much.

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SWG was the best crafting. If you didnt get the chance when it was up and before NGE, you missed out. I could explain but it would turn into a book!

Caliane_sl said:

Traits unlock for "all teirs" I think.

For example. I researched sharpened for great swords.
A level 1 Iron greatsword with sharpened is 5% spell/armor pen. 5 iron ingots, 1 fire opal.
if I add 3 iron to make a level 8 iron greatsword. its 7% spell/armor pen. 8 iron, 1 fire opal.

Granted, it stays 7% up to level 14 and 11 iron... So yeah, if I need to research more, dunno. But I don't see any UI place for that to occur. I think higher teir materials will just naturally increase that %.

What you do need to do is unlock the trait for every single kind of weapon.
Unlocking sharpened for greatswords. only unlocks it for greatswords.

Upgrading at low levels seems really expensive. its far far easier/cheaper to get drops or just buy greens.

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I have been hanging onto drops for research, thats part of the problem though. Bag/bank space. even at low lvls with the research time being soo long. Its the major block atm. I really want to like this, just having a hard time. It should never be this hard to jump in and craft. At current, I can setup research for each craft and either logout for the next 6hr+ or grind for mats, which I am doing but that is starting to hinder due to inv space. As I get more mats I am finding more items I want to research. Thus at some point I will need to sell/break or just logout till research is done to empty space.

I do like the upgrading idea, only done a bit of that. Dont have much info on it yet. Guessing it will have limits, maybe something like unable to up the items lvl or damage or traits, unknown for me at this time.

Caliane_sl said:

Crafting in themepark mmos is almost always just utter crap. It needs to be completely rethought. but no one does it. They just copy the same shit over and over.


Crafting is obviously best in a sandbox mmo. And I don't think I really need to go into why, and how it should exist in one of those.
Its the themeparks, with bind on equip, bind on pickup. And teired progression that fucks it up.

Crafting while leveling in all these games is a joke. You ALWAYS get more and better gear just by questing.
Massively wasted bag space. The crafter is hugely penalized for trying to actual collect materials. nevermind having to buy them from other players to deal with the crafting skill ups. Shit needs to be grounded out every time.

Crafting pretty much always comes down to a time/gold sink for when you hit max level, to prepare for raids/dungeons in these games. And that is pretty fucking retarded.
At best, you may have areas where while leveling, one or two pieces of gear falls behind, and crafted gear lets you at least target what you need specifically.

Crafted styles here is good. one of the flaws with crafting is everything looks the same normally. so thats some variation. GW2 of course had dyes to give a ton of variance.

And, Im going to get to work instead of getting into how to fix crafting in themeparks. ha.

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THIS! Thank you.... Glad someone understand my frustration!!!
How I wish for SWG with a mix of EVE and little EQ1 & 2. I will add ESO just for the idea of style/traits/amount-increase.



I will just keep grinding, seeing what high lvls shows. But so far its not that fun and ton of things feel like its missing from the game which seem to be a standard staple.

Jackdaddio_sl said:

I don't think I've seen one person on this thread say it won't make any money. I'm pretty sure most people are going on about how boring, insipid and uninspired it is as a project.

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Basically this. I think the idea of Skyrim type leveling in an MMO is a novel idea but I'm just really not a fan of how slow going it is, especially at the early levels. You can slow it down later if you want, but that early curve needs to be flattened out a bit. Most games slow down as you get toward the end of the leveling experience but there's a reason those initial levels, in almost every MMO, go quickly. They're the hook needed to get a player invested. Outside of the novelty of playing an Elder Scrolls game... ONLINE!!.. there is no hook. And it has nothing to do with being jaded with MMOs.

I recently got a free 30-day trial of FFIV when I upgraded my graphics card. I've really never had any intention of playing the game but since it was free I decided to give it a shot. Six hours later (and at roughly level 12), I convinced my wife to play it with me. Keep in mind that FFIV is just the latest in a long line of MMOs who follow the basic formula laid out by WoW. It has a few extra things going for it, like the class system, the visuals (which are really good), and their version of the public quest system, but there's nothing extraordinary about it when you think about it. But even so, it managed to make me want to play until the end of my trial at the least.

So far, TESO is failing to inspire even a willingness to give it a free trial. With the knowledge that it's going F2P at some point I feel it's probably best to wait until then to give it a shot.

It is a single player game with other players in your world. I agree that it is incredibly slow at the start. MMO players want to hack & blast shit quickly. Too many fetch quests, too much unneeded dialog. Game is still worth playing if you enjoy MMO's and arnt playing anything.

Uhgg i'm level 9 and I just don't think I will make it to level 10. These quest lines are killing my soul

Gecko_sl said:

Technically, everything in MMOs is a waste of time. All those hundreds of hours of raids to be obsoleted by expansions? All those dailies or faction grinding again, to be deemed worthless via mudflation?

Crafting actually provides things that stimulate the economy, provide social interaction, and are accomplishments that are not solely based on being a Monster Hunter so I'd argue they are the least futile things.

SWG had the best implementation by far of any game, including UO for crafting. The problem is it was and probably still is ahead of it's time.

The big problem with crafting is the same as questing. In most cases it's a been there, done that setup.

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they do?

what games are you playing that crafting does not just result with dumping things on the AH, or buying things off the AH?
iron sword#10009832732879 that is exactly like iron sword #189372732873

There isn't social interaction. there is an Auction house.
Except MAYBE within guild.



house deco, is a great direction for crafting yes. few games have it though.
Any cosmetic really. Icons, capes. dyes. perfect way to allow crafting.

hell, imagine a crafter could pick and choose when making.
Like here in Teso, the crafter can make designs. That IS really good.
But then mix that with GW2 dye system.
Imagine the crafter could choose how to dye items when creating them. Or maybe even go as far as build items piecemeal.
Like make a chest armor. They can choose 4 different waist styles. 4 different upper chest styles. 4 different neck styles. 4 different sleeve styles.

Hell this would even help with "chainmail" bikini problem. Allow people that want chainmail bikinis to craft them... those that don't, craft armor with better coverage.

This creates a system where the crafter goes and collects the rare dyes. And you would be going to the crafter WITH those rare dyes for the cool stuff. It also lets the crafter use their imagine, and possibly get sales purely on how cool they design stuff.
And two crafters making the same item, are not REALLY making the same item.

etchazz_sl said:

i love the fact that a ringing endorsement of a game in the MMO industry right now is "eh, it isn't terrible."

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I dont think you know the definition of a 'ringing endorsement'.

No matter how salty the jaded MMORPG vets on the inter webs are, when looking at the spectrum of MMORPGs, the fact remains: TESO is far closer to the best MMO ever made than it is to the worst. It gets a 72% from me. I won't be preordering, but I'll pick it up release day if a few key buddies decide to play. We are waiting for endgame info before we commit.

Waahh Wahhh Wahhh, I don't like another MMO, and I'm going to cry about it until someone notices me.

Business as usual folks move along.

Column_sl said:

Waahh Wahhh Wahhh, I don't like another MMO, and I'm going to cry about it until someone notices me.

Business as usual folks move along.

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Ya, people should not complain about shitty video games on a video game message boadrs.

Except you complain about EVERYTHING. Fucking babys

Their hasn't been an MMO this message board has liked ever...

In fact if we could reverse time when EQ came out people would complain it was shit compared to UO.