The Elder Scrolls Online

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mkopec

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While I fully agree a paradigm shift in MMO game design would be nice, it seems to me that would require some new technological innovation to be invented and once available, become cost efficient so the game using that new technology will be profitable.
Bullshit. All this is is an excuse. You will see different when EQ next comes out. Will it suck or be good? Who the fuck knows, but at least its will be different, trying something new.

You sound like the dude that said there is no more innovation left im mmos.
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
The consumer is always right. It's all basic Economics 101. A game that is high quality and fun to play has a good chance of being profitable. It's all a moot point if the game isn't profitable..
A Toyota Corolla is a great car. It's still boring as fuck to drive. I want an MMO not aimed for simple economics but more for those of looking for a hovercraft.
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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That means you're done with MMO's as a whole then. By not taking the effort to look for better ways to progress and have fun in a game, you've essentially gotten lazy with the genre and have ceased to care all together.

Yeah levels 1-9 kind of suck in this game
Vitality
Quoting both of these. And for a distinct reason.

If I had to make a major dart throw, I would guess that about 10-15% of anyone that plays weekend beta cannot get passed those levels you said suck and will cancel their pre-orders. I would also guess that even more are tired of hearing the same ol, "The game starts at Yadda" level. Because throughout all the games that we have played before, it was a gimmick game type that would last a week. if Mkopec cannot get through what is being almost universally panned as some of the most boring PvE content released to date in an MMORPG (Whether it is, or people are just sick of this style of play, or both - is irrelevant) he shouldn't have to play through it to get to what he may find fun.

Gating game play/game type content doesn't work as a carrot

This is why your argument is inherently flawed. He is done with MMORPG's because he is sick of quest leveling? Would he still be sick of MMORPG's if he could hop right into raiding, group dungeons, or PVP immediately upon making a character, therefore having more gameplay options right off the bat? You can't just sit and say one gametype and design pattern should be the end all. If he likes 75% of the rest of the game should he ever get passed the mundane level 1-10 content and the game doesn't let him get to the parts he likes to play, why the hell should be be forced to get through the shit he hates?
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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The consumer is always right. It's all basic Economics 101. A game that is high quality and fun to play has a good chance of being profitable.
In this industry that doesn't apply. There are maybe one or two instances where an MMORPG was a monetary failure.

Some of the profitable games were not fun, poorly produced, and badly designed.

Also, I disagree with you we need technology advancements. What we need are people in management go ahead positions to take risks. What we are seeing here isn't because of aging technology. We are seeing this because publishers are looking for ways to be profitable in the easiest low risk fashions they can do so. They aren't willing to take risks, aren't willing to take a risk for an increased opportunity cost for blowing it out of the water if they are right, and as a result we see mundane and boring games with ab out 5% of them being above and beyond what we are used too.
 

Vitality

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If he likes 75% of the rest of the game should he ever get passed the mundane level 1-10 content and the game doesn't let him get to the parts he likes to play, why the hell should be be forced to get through the shit he hates
I see what you're getting at, and your self proclaimed dart tossing.

I'm ASSUMING from the points you attempt to make, that no one should go to the gym because it hurts, and the results aren't immediately apparent.

My response is: "Bro, do you even lift?" as this statement is inherrently distinctive of a primary portion of the posters in this thread.

Why go to the gym if you don't lift. MMO's are hard. Easy ones are "Lol bad game".

MMO's have quests, ESO's Quests DO NOT Give more xp/hour gold/hr or loot/hr than just flat out killing mobs. You are only forced into gated content to progress to the next area. It's shitty I agree. Gated content is weird, the rest is pretty fun though. If you fail to see the lake behind the burnt forest, you might not be looking close enough.

I think you should probably try to look though, if you want me to take you seriously. "Burnt trees, did not read" posts are just value-less.

I respect you for not liking what I have to say.

Vitality
 

Daidraco

Avatar of War Slayer
10,080
10,408
EQ: Next may not be the next big thing, but itll shed light on Voxels and I can see huge potential from Voxels. Voxels or a similar technology are going to give a huge entertainment value to MMO's.
 

Rhuobhe

N00b
242
1
If the only thing that bugs you is paying 15$ for the one or two months that you expect the game to hold you then that is not a good enough point. Give us something that has substance.
 

alavaz

Trakanon Raider
2,003
714
If you can't see the inherent problems with fixed levels being the primary source of progression in a MMO, then I can't help you. It's been covered ad nauseam on this site and the former. I don't have the time nor patience to walk you through it.

Essentially though, the only reason levels are still used today is that developers think we're fucking idiots. True story.
Wat? Seriously though, skills vs levels is fucking stupid. It doesn't matter. Either way you will be running up to a mob and the game will say if your number is bigger than it's number you will kill it easier and vice versa. Doesn't matter how you represent that number be it skills, levels, dick size it's all greater than less than shit. And for you to think it is some how more profound than that doesn't mean the developers think you are a fucking idiot, it means they know you are.
 

mrmoneda_sl

shitlord
142
0
EQ: Next may not be the next big thing, but itll shed light on Voxels and I can see huge potential from Voxels. Voxels or a similar technology are going to give a huge entertainment value to MMO's.
The biggest draw the Battlefield series currently has (for me anyway) is the destructibility of the environment and how that affects gameplay. I highly anticipate what a similar technology can bring to MMOs.

If the only thing that bugs you is paying 15$ for the one or two months that you expect the game to hold you then that is not a good enough point. Give us something that has substance.
As much as I enjoy the game, I think "this isn't enough fun for me to spend money on" is enough reason to not buy something. Though "this game wasn't fun for meyou totally shouldn't buy it" is some bullshit.
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Bullshit. All this is is an excuse. You will see different when EQ next comes out. Will it suck or be good? Who the fuck knows, but at least its will be different, trying something new.

You sound like the dude that said there is no more innovation left im mmos.
Isn't a huge part of EQ Next essentially SOE's version of Minecraft? If so, not really innovation but copying what someone else made popular, which is pretty much the same things the WoW clones have done over the years.
 

Creslin

Trakanon Raider
2,503
1,151
Wat? Seriously though, skills vs levels is fucking stupid. It doesn't matter. Either way you will be running up to a mob and the game will say if your number is bigger than it's number you will kill it easier and vice versa. Doesn't matter how you represent that number be it skills, levels, dick size it's all greater than less than shit. And for you to think it is some how more profound than that doesn't mean the developers think you are a fucking idiot, it means they know you are.
you don't understand the massive difference between the two systems? Levels gate you far far far more than any skill system, ya they kinda do the same thing but skill systems almost always offer slight progression not the huge exponential progression of a leveling system. In a skill system two low skill players can team up to kill a high skill mob, a mob that a high skill player can solo easily. Thats almost never true in a leveling system, a group of level 60s can't group up and kill a lvl 90 mob in WoW.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,794
8,155
Isn't a huge part of EQ Next essentially SOE's version of Minecraft? If so, not really innovation but copying what someone else made popular, which is pretty much the same things the WoW clones have done over the years.
There is so much wrong with this statement that I don't even know where to begin.

EQ:N is not even close to Minecraft.
 

Vitality

HUSTLE
5,808
30
This is the ESO Discussion thread still, right?

I feel like this is starting to turn into a General MMO Rhetoric thread.

I could be wrong,
Vitality
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,794
8,155
This is the ESO Discussion thread still, right?

I feel like this is starting to turn into a General MMO Rhetoric thread.

I could be wrong,
Vitality
You must be fucking new here.

Maybe that's why you think you should be signing your posts like it's 1994.

Seriously, it's weird. Fucking stop it.

-Quaid

"Live long and Prosper" - Mega Man
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Gating game play/game type content doesn't work as a carrot

This is why your argument is inherently flawed. He is done with MMORPG's because he is sick of quest leveling? Would he still be sick of MMORPG's if he could hop right into raiding, group dungeons, or PVP immediately upon making a character, therefore having more gameplay options right off the bat? You can't just sit and say one gametype and design pattern should be the end all. If he likes 75% of the rest of the game should he ever get passed the mundane level 1-10 content and the game doesn't let him get to the parts he likes to play, why the hell should be be forced to get through the shit he hates?
If you were telling us the truth, you stopped playing EQ1 during Planes of Power so that means you should be familiar with the Plane of Time.

Should a EQ1 player have been allowed to jump right into raiding and enter Plane of Time without putting in the time to acquire gear, AA levels and completing all of the necessary tasks to gain access to the gated content?

Should a level 10 be able to go Lower Guk because they believe a MMO should allow them to go wherever they want to whenever they want?

I completely disagree that gating content doesn't work as a carrot. A lot of MMO players enjoy doing any content that allows you to improve your character. Completing all the tasks and requirements to open the gated PVE content was a huge carrot even to a casual player like myself.
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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This isn't lifting weights to get to a goal of getting in shape. It's a video game. There is no need to gate content to get to the subject matter most find fun under something that obviously is no longer fun for a lot of people. Just open up PvP, dungeons, and everything else the game has to offer without progressing to it and allow people access to how they wish to level from the start. It gives more options and people can choose what they want to do and what they each find fun.

Gated content is a dead model.
 

mrmoneda_sl

shitlord
142
0
Isn't a huge part of EQ Next essentially SOE's version of Minecraft? If so, not really innovation but copying what someone else made popular, which is pretty much the same things the WoW clones have done over the years.
EQ Next Landmark is not EQ Next.

Whosoever at SOE decided upon these names should be slapped, vigorously and repeatedly.
 

moontayle

Golden Squire
4,302
165
This is the ESO Discussion thread still, right?

I feel like this is starting to turn into a General MMO Rhetoric thread.

I could be wrong,
Vitality
It has turned into something like that but TESO does a good job of drawing attention to tired gameplay mechanics and the flaws of bad design decisions. They didn't even go full bore on the questing. Tuco was talking about how he ended up in the one burnt out village and didn't find anything until he talked to a quest guy just outside the town. Then magically the town came to life. That's bad gameplay design right there. The gameplay of exploration and leading into the discovery of situations is something even SWTOR did. You'd end up in an area, maybe slightly off the beaten path, and a new staged quest would appear in your log (that rewarded you at the completion of each stage too). TESO would more likely benefit heavily from public quests but they have eschewed something in this nature in favor of the ages old mechanic of talking to someone before anything interesting can happen. That was my experience at least.

TESO kind of feels like half an MMO to me. And honestly, SWTOR felt more innovative, despite the fact that it borrowed heavily from BC era Wow.
 

Bruman

Golden Squire
1,154
0
Just a small trip report - last time I went to the ice zone, this time I went to a beach and took some quest to an undead ruin.

Even though the story was semi-interesting, the bow combat was still so fucking boring and wrong that it was a struggle to finish that quest line even. I quit at level 3, and went back to Humble Bundle 11 games and D3.

This time around at least, I figured out how the bow worked - and it's just terrible IMO. The feedback is all wrong. It's trying to pretend like it's a collision detection based system, when it's not, and it just makes it awkward. I was going to try to make myself test out a melee and/or magic character to see how those felt, but I just couldn't make myself care enough. Hell, I can barely make myself type this short trip report.

I did like the graphics and environment, at least. The enemies respawning in about 30 seconds was really damn annoying though - but mainly because of how un-fun it was to kill things.
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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If you were telling us the truth, you stopped playing EQ1 during Planes of Power so that means you should be familiar with the Plane of Time.

Should a EQ1 player have been allowed to jump right into raiding and enter Plane of Time without putting in the time to acquire gear, AA levels and completing all of the necessary tasks to gain access to the gated content?

Should a level 10 be able to go Lower Guk because they believe a MMO should allow them to go wherever they want to whenever they want?
You are comparing a Diku-Mud heavily static itemization base long leveling curve MMORPG to a theme-park MMORPG. They are in two completely different worlds.

You are failing to see that I said "game type". Raiding was an extension of grouping with more people in a zone. It wasn't a dramatic shift in the way the game was played. In EQ you grouped, and raided, or if you were able to camp spots and solo with 7 min downtimes in-between you could. With this game you are now talking about three completely different game modes where none of them are like another. Solo quest play, dungeon running, RvR. Three different content "game types" should not be gated. If you want to say that to be able to enter dungeon 2 before you can enter dungeon 6, or you must raid this before you can raid that; it is entirely different than saying you need to level to 10 before you can play RvR. Or Dungeon run.

Again, two entirely different games. Themepark MMORPG's should just be in a genre of it's own.