When are they ever going to fucking die? I'm so fucking sick of this, jesus christ.
The Elder Scrolls Online
- Thread starter Anomander Rake
- Start date
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Never
If they can turn a profit and have zero risk, I doubt why we would ever see something different. And if we stopped buying it, they would just say a demographic changed and it would probably take the genre with it.
Hopefully EQ Next can turn some things around a bit, and then Blizzard will come and make it about 50 times better and people will copy that instead.
The people in charge of most of these games are not innovators and we won't see changes until they are gone.
ESO could turn a profit no matter what type of game it was. Its not really necessarily cheaper, easier or safer to make a shitty quest based game than it is to try to innovate and fail.NeverIn fact I think each release just gets worse.
If they can turn a profit and have zero risk, I doubt why we would ever see something different. And if we stopped buying it, they would just say a demographic changed and it would probably take the genre with it.
Hopefully EQ Next can turn some things around a bit, and then Blizzard will come and make it about 50 times better and people will copy that instead.
The people in charge of most of these games are not innovators and we won't see changes until they are gone.
I liked this because it was actually on topic. The rest of that bro-weightlifting/flexing thing was just stupid.
Please keep it simple like this for us lurkers. The bloat isn't necessary.
Xaxius
Lord Nagafen Raider
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The irony of TESO is that their game already has the answer to it's PvE problem. It's essentially Cryodill. If they had based TESO PvE on using the same philosophies that can be found in Cryodill, it would have been a pretty awesome MMO. Since levels are agnostic in Cryodill, progression and content would be essentially gated by gear and skill progression/acquisition. This increases player freedom. Factions wouldn't be separated, thus opening up other lands to explore at any time and expanding the immediate size of the world. Overlay that change with a three faction system, and it had the potential to provide a Velious-like experience. Finally, Cyrodill lacks phasing removing yet another gating barrier. This is oversimplifying what would need to be done to make it work, but I think this is also why there are a lot of people that enjoy Cyrodill in the first place. It feels more like a MMO.
Vitality
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I agree with you completely, the rest of this game is just a table to put Cyrodil on as the main course.
Ut stated earlier that the dev of Cyrodil only had like 1 guy assigned to his team and had around a year to work on it with just one other guy. How do we go about telling ESO to give the dev of Cyrodil priority? Considering that Cyrodil is the only real thing giving this game a fighting chance?
This isn't really a case of put your money where your mouth is, because I honestly feel like the dev of Cyrodil should be rewarded for squeezing out the best content in the game which such a limited resource pool.
I certainly have some pretty neat Cyrodil stories to tell already.
*Disclaimer: Sunday cyrodil stability issues duely noted*
Hmm..
Nice evasion. Were the questions to hard for you?
It's also beyond lame to whine about not being able to PVP until level 10 or not run group dungeons until level 15. It takes at most 2-3 days to get to level 10 and unlocking Cyrodil. The dungeons difficulty is designed for a specified level range so that when you run it your group is challenged and when you finish it there is a sense of accomplishment and maybe a gear upgrade. When you combine it all the players who like to PVE had fun and consider the amount of time they spent worthwhile. If a dungeon is designed for levels 12-15, it's beyond lame to whine about having to reach those levels before you can run that dungeon.
BTW saying raiding in EQ1 "wasn't a dramatic shift in how the game was played" is one of the stupidest things I have read on this or the old FOH board. Endgame raiding didn't have 70+ people sitting on their asses in one spot for a couple of hours grinding EXP and hoping to get a rare loot drop from a named mob.
The fact that PvE raiding in EQ1 required a lot of players who were all dedicated to gearing up, playing long hours, wiping on bosses while trying to figure out winning strategies, etc etc makes it obvious that end game raiding was completely different than the rest of the game. That is why only a small percentage of players who were in guilds like FOH ever got to defeat end game bosses.
One of the smartest design decisions WoW and all the theme park WoW clones made was to make end game PVE raiding more accessible to the masses, which IMO is one of the main reasons WoW became so popular and stole so many players from EQ1.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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Levels are the single most thing that de-MMOify a game. There's a reason why WoW made the whole "the game starts at max" and most MMOs have levels go as fast as the wind - because if you and your friends have different playtimes (and you always do), you find yourself quickly separated by those levels. There's nothing more irritating than finding out that you and your friend can't really play together because either he has to be careful because if he sneezes, the mob falls down (making your "game" irrelevant - if you play, you're getting twinked), or he has a delevel option (called "mentoring") and he earns a pittance in money, loots trash items he has no use for, and sometimes even pitiful xp. All for the privilege of playing together. So, because somehow, devs have realized that levels are good in single player, but an obstacle to overcome in MMOs, they make it so that you quickly get to the same level (max), then you can start playing together normally.
Cyrodil is designed specifically for those who enjoy DAOC style PVP. If you don't like PVP or that style of PVP, then you might not consider Cyrodil the "main course".
Perhaps a better analogy is that Cyrodil is one of the menu options with solo questing, dungeon crawling (basic and veteran) and adventure zones being other "main course" options on the menu.
The restaurant is an "all you can eat" place so you can choose as many main courses to eat as you like. The more choices you have the better right?
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Well, is the food generally better at a buffet, or a restaurant with a small menu?
What are you even arguing?
Vitality
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I honestly wish solo questing was good enough to be considered "On Par" with Cyrodil, but unfortunately it isn't. As the masses have been stating, it's something ESO is attempting to shove down our throats "Requiring" us to complete the gated junk to even get where we need to go.
ESO isn't offering it's content as a menu to choose from.
It's offering it's good content as a reward for slogging through a miserable leveling experience.
I'd love to be wrong on this point.
Xaxius
Lord Nagafen Raider
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That wasn't the point I was making that Vitality was agreeing with.
The PvP is irrelevant to the argument that Cryodill is a better MMO experience. If you took the PvP out of Cyrodill, the very basic philosophies of it's design inherently foster a better MMO. Level agnostic content, lack of phasing, and actual faction interaction, if applied to the rest of the game, would provide a huge improvement to the perception that it a game full of choice, exploration and freedom. It would act more like a world and, ultimately, more like an ESO game. It would allow players to not have to worry what faction they were on to play with their friends, or worry about out leveling them, or doing a quest step out-of-sync putting them in the wrong phase... all of which are side effects of bad design.
Cyrodil is obviously a major component of this game and if it works well, will keep the PVPers happy. The point I was making is that Zenimax is trying to satisfy the hardcore TES fans as well as the endgame PvE raiding community as well. Those are other major components of the game that are just as important as Cyrodil for player retention.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Vitality
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Do you think that Zenimax is doing a good job of satisfying the Hardcore Elder Scrolls fans?
I think they're doing a bare-bones "whatever it takes to sell the game" job in this respect.
Adventure zones may satiate the PVE raiding community, but we haven't even gotten a taste of this, so it's not even on the "Menu".
All this game has right now is Cyrodil, and shit, I pre-ordered the imperial edition JUST because of Cyrodil. I really hope Zenimax recognizes this, and puts more effort into Cyrodil. If they do, this game could be something special.
Tarrant
<Prior Amod>
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Rescorla, sarcasm aside, why do you come off as a shill who is on damage control with a bunch of people who see the game as mediocre at best? You act like you have something personally vested into this game and it comes off really weird I guess.
If you simply like the game then cool....but all of it just comes off as weird I guess.
My personal experiences, this weekend went better for me than previous. Lag was better but PvE is still like watching paint dry and I have all the same issues with it that Tuco had mentioned in previous parts about a dead world. PvP reminds of of GW2 for some reason. I'm still not seeing myself buying this but I don't fault anyone who does. -shrugs-
If you simply like the game then cool....but all of it just comes off as weird I guess.
My personal experiences, this weekend went better for me than previous. Lag was better but PvE is still like watching paint dry and I have all the same issues with it that Tuco had mentioned in previous parts about a dead world. PvP reminds of of GW2 for some reason. I'm still not seeing myself buying this but I don't fault anyone who does. -shrugs-
Sabbat
Trakanon Raider
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It's really odd for me, I've said before I wasn't going to touch this because it was going to be a trainwreck. I thought I was going to play Wildstar. After the ESO beta weekend, I've done a complete 180. I loved the combat, the graphics, the feel of the zones, the skill system, the crafting and the PvP just capped it off perfectly.
Reminded me of Darkfall.
Reminded me of Darkfall.
Vitality
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