The Elder Scrolls Online

Vitality_sl said:

Wait... don't cyrodiil campaigns have a population cap?

Two years in and this game is having character rendering issues all of the sudden?

Where the hell is wheeler?

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If you are referring to the Cyrodil performance dev post that Utnayan quoted, that was from a couple of months ago shortly after 1.6 was deployed. Had Utnayan ever actually played the game he would have known that.

If anyone would like to have an actual mature discussion on what was actually said in that dev post and how that has a different impact on the console version compared to the PC version I can take the time to point out some thing that the irrational haters aren't capable of figuring out.

Rescorla_sl said:

If you are referring to the Cyrodil performance dev post that Utnayan quoted, that was from a couple of months ago shortly after 1.6 was deployed. Had Utnayan ever actually played the game he would have known that.

If anyone would like to have an actual mature discussion on what was actually said in that dev post and how that has a different impact on the console version compared to the PC version I can take the time to point out some thing that the irrational haters aren't capable of figuring out.

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I was surprised to read that quote because I thought Cyrodiil ran great when I played the game.

The only time it didn't run very well was when ZOS was fucking around with collision detection.

So you're saying it's a console perfomance issue?

That's not good if it is.

Vitality_sl said:

I was surprised to read that quote because I thought Cyrodiil ran great when I played the game.

The only time it didn't run very well was when ZOS was fucking around with collision detection.

So you're saying it's a console perfomance issue?

That's not good if it is.

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I didn't say it was a console performance issue at all. Did you miss the part where I pointed out the dev post quote is several months old (i.e long before the console version was released)?

Rescorla_sl said:

I didn't say it was a console performance issue at all. Did you miss the part where I pointed out the dev post quote is several months old (i.e long before the console version was released)?

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I guess I don't get your point at all then.

If you read the dev tracker there about 20 pages of posts trying to put out fires regarding long queues, server lag, etc. Sounds like they didn't fix shit, and the only hope is a drastic drop in player demand. (Like what happened with PC.)

They clearly lack talent in coding, as they admitted in the reddit AUA, that it was too complicated for them to code it so that they complied with Xbox gamer tag requirements while still showing player names in game. Seriously.

Utnayan_sl said:

^^ That didn't sound very mature of you. It was almost conniving to a point...

Being the mature one here, he flat out stated that more hardware wasn't going to fix it. The only other logical conclusion is that the Megaserver technology/code is the issue or Hero Engine itself (Which wouldn't surprise me in the slightest) and they just didn't have the talent from a technology stand point to get this to ever work correctly.

Your thoughts on this matter Rescorla?

I thank you for your participation in this discussion.

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First off, why do you keep insisting TESO uses the Hero engine when it's been documented countless number of times that it doesn't?

There are also other logical conclusions that can be made assuming you don't operate under the premise that all of your assumptions, beliefs and opinions are concrete facts.

So let me take the time to explain to you some of the things you haven't logically figured out yet.

1) The conflicting human nature of PVP players.

Let's divide the PVP community into two large generalized groups. Group 1 are the PVP players who enjoy PVP for the extra challenge and adrenaline it creates. They like their PVP to be fair, balanced where skill comes into play and the PVPer with the better skill has a competitive edge. Group 2 would be anyone who isn't in Group 1 and is perfectly fine with Zerg vs Zerg PVP where individual PVP skill doesn't really come into play and instead the battle is won by whichever Zerg leader can create the largest Zerg and coordinate its movement.

Cyrodil is a humongous zone that can accomodate both types of players. The problem for Group 1 PVPers is that while they want skill based PVP, it's often very difficult to actual find any PVP action because the Cyrodil zone is so large. There are individual and small group gank squads roaming around out there but it can be a major challenge and long time gaps before they actually get to PVP.

Here is where the conflicting human nature comes into play.

The Group 1 players want skill based PVP with challenging fights but because that can be hard to find, they end up getting bored and break down and join the Zerg just so they can have some PVP action. This is made extremely easy on the PC version of the game because of zone wide text chat. The Zerg can communicate easily and tell everyone where to go. End result is that during prime time you end up with primarily with nothing but large zergs with 95% of the zone unused.

The point the devs made that throwing extra hardware at the problem won't actually fix the problem is because the root cause of the problem is human nature. In this case the large majority of TESO PVPers are Group 2 players who are into Zerg vs Zerg PVP.

That is one of the primary reasons behind the design decision to disable text chat in Cyrodil. Console players will not have the ability in Cyrodil to use text chat to coordinate movement of the Zerg. In theory this will encourage players to spread out and PVP throughout the entire zone instead of in limited concentrated areas. If that is how Cyrodil gameplay on the consoles plays out, then the Cyrodil performance problems on the PC caused by massive zergs won't be a problem on the consoles.

Yeah, guys, they aren't terrible at making video games, they're geniuses at human psychology. They figured out the issues with their game aren't problems at all with the game, but with people. Once they fix people, boy the game is going to be great!

popsicledeath_sl said:

Yeah, guys, they aren't terrible at making video games, they're geniuses at human psychology. They figured out the issues with their game aren't problems at all with the game, but with people. Once they fix people, boy the game is going to be great!

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You may not be aware of what goes on when it comes to designing how games are played, but human psychology does indeed play a huge part in how design decisions are made. A popular movement in the game industry right now is the WWUW design approach. It stands for What Would Utnayan Want. If an answer to that question can be determined, the design decision is to go with the 180 degree opposite choice.

Rescorla_sl said:

You may not be aware of what goes on when it comes to designing how games are played, but human psychology does indeed play a huge part in how design decisions are made. A popular movement in the game industry right now is the WWUW design approach. It stands for What Would Utnayan Want. If an answer to that question can be determined, the design decision is to go with the 180 degree opposite choice.

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Feel free to make a valid point any time now resco.

ZOS are idiots if they designed Cyrodiil around the player psychology of NOT STICKING TOGETHER TO ACCOMPLISH LIKE GOALS.

Utnayan_sl said:

Oh... my .... God. (Sorry that isn't very mature of me...)



I will maturely respond.

Any designer who is worth a shit that doesn't look at spreadsheet data all day, formulating theories about player philosophy and turning game design into something it isn't, and, actually plays games; knows the common denominator in any RvR system with a reward structure will be a zerg mentality, always and forever, and to just shut the fuck up with their 5 years of general statistical hypothesis of the gamer psyche and make the fucking thing. In fact, any game designer worth a shit also knows that no matter how hard they try to force a game play mechanic out of a design, the players will think of something they will never think of, and in 95% of the cases, many things - so at that point (again) it's time to put down the PhD in virtual sociology and make a fucking fun game and roll with what you see. Christ, that is more fun anyway!

Megaserver is a broken coded mess. Paul Sage's post proves it. He has even gotten to the point in that post of dictating what people do should they want to play the game the way it wasadvertisedbecause of his universal failure on all accounts from team management, resource management, asset management, team leadership, and most of all, a unique ability (Not uncommon in this industry) to never take accountability; solidifies and epitomizes the state of 95% of the companies outside of Indie from a leadership level and why we see this type of horseshit time and time again.

You are defending the indefensible if you are sincere, and if not, I love you more for that last post and will laugh heartily because believe it or not in that particular troll post (If that is the case) you nailed what exactly is wrong in those countless day after day meetings with pompous egotistical assholes that put way too much time Kostering up the entire project trying to impress Plato in the sky. The result? This fucking thing you call a game.

That's about the peak of my maturity.

Vitality? BEER.

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In 2015 with current information technology, how many players in the same general vicinity should an online game support with no degradation of performance? Give me a realistic expectation, not some unrealistic number you wish for a game to accomodate.

Utnayan_sl said:

I want... Whattheywant... And every other guy, who came to these forums and spilt their guts and gave everything they had...Wants!

For our game developers to loveus... as much we ... love them.

That's what I want.

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Need more devs like this guy. Keep in mind, this was the first MMO he ever worked on.



Turn CC on to read the translation.

Vitality_sl said:

Feel free to make a valid point any time now resco.

ZOS are idiots if they designed Cyrodiil around the player psychology of NOT STICKING TOGETHER TO ACCOMPLISH LIKE GOALS.

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Where did I say anything about not sticking together to accomplish like goals? The issue is what is a realistic value for the maximum size of a Zerg before it gets too large for an online game to technically support.

Rescorla_sl said:

Where did I say anything about not sticking together to accomplish like goals? The issue is what is a realistic value for the maximum size of a Zerg before it gets too large for an online game to technically support.

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I feel like this is something a game developer needs to consider in the alpha stages of development. Not two years post development.

Especially when your game has campaign population caps.

Telling your players to just not clump up is a fucking disaster.

"Fuck you paying customer base, stop zerging, we aren't going to do anything about stability."

Unbelievable.