The Elder Scrolls Online

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,613
12,745
Rescorla_sl said:
Where did I say anything about not sticking together to accomplish like goals? The issue is what is a realistic value for the maximum size of a Zerg before it gets too large for an online game to technically support.
Click to expand...
Echo'ing Vitality. Or, before they start with this bullshit.

Why The Elder Scrolls Online doesn't and can't look like Skyrim Eurogamer.net

I will sit here without a beer in my hand yet and have you stress the word "Goal" when a game did it 14 years ago and it was really nothing big to expect anyway in 2014, but yet somehow they not only fucked that up, but the entire server technology crapping out the entire game with vanishing NPCs and broken quests and phasing scripts when more than 100 enter an instance bubble forcing a queue bandaid.
 
R

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Utnayan_sl said:
In 2001 Mythic hit 200. And that was 14 fucking years ago. And I witnessed it. Everquest on a fucking broken ass tank simulator engine accounted for 75-100+ in east commons in a tunnel all trying to sell and buy shit in 1999 on a monster 3D card.

Are you leading me to believe we have taken a downturn in technology? Or are you protecting the inept at this point who shouldn't be in charge of technical infrastructure of game design because they wanted to cheap out the bottom line and it failed? And that doesn't account for the simple fact that if they cannot hit it, don't advertise you can.
Click to expand...
Since you brought up DAOC, I quit playing that game because as low as 50 players on a screen was too much for my 56k dialup to handle. I can say without exageration that I never survived any RVR encounter because my screen would freeze for seconds and often a couple of minutes at a time. By the time it unlocked I would always be dead. It was back to EQ1 for me.

I can't tell you with any degree of certainty the largest amount of players I have ever witnessed in one area. There was a shitload of players on both sides so I would guess around 300-400. Sometimes there would be no lag and sometimes it would be unplayable. Whatever the total number was, it was well past the threshold of where individual skill factored in on the outcome.
 
Vitality

Vitality

ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
5,808
30
A handwritten engine based from a loose skeletal structure of Hero engine won't be able to do things like Planetside 2 and it's Forgelight engine where it handles 300v300v300 fights in the center of a fully rendered seemless world. With vehicles, aircraft, custom textures AND COLLISION.

Any idiot knows that. Hero engine can barely handle animation to player input response correctly server side (which is an OBVIOUS issue in ESO).

This company deserves to fail extremely hard.
 
R

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Vitality_sl said:
I feel like this is something a game developer needs to consider in the alpha stages of development. Not two years post development.

Especially when your game has campaign population caps.

Telling your players to just not clump up is a fucking disaster.

"Fuck you paying customer base, stop zerging, we aren't going to do anything about stability."

Unbelievable.
Click to expand...
I noticed you neglected to answer the question and provide a max number of players value for what you believe a game should support.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,613
12,745
Rescorla_sl said:
Since you brought up DAOC, I quit playing that game because as low as 50 players on a screen was too much for my 56k dialup to handle. I can say without exageration that I never survived any RVR encounter because my screen would freeze for seconds and often a couple of minutes at a time. By the time it unlocked I would always be dead. It was back to EQ1 for me.

I can't tell you with any degree of certainty the largest amount of players I have ever witnessed in one area. There was a shitload of players on both sides so I would guess around 300-400. Sometimes there would be no lag and sometimes it would be unplayable. Whatever the total number was, it was well past the threshold of where individual skill factored in on the outcome.
Click to expand...
I had a cable modem and a Monster 3D card. Either way, the server technology handled it fine without shitting the bed. Client technology at the time would obviously vary, but we aren't talking about that. So I guess I would have to say you will have to think of, why, in 2014-15, this organization cannot do what was done from scratch without a model to compare it too, 13 years ago, withinfrastructure.
 
Vitality

Vitality

ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
5,808
30
Rescorla_sl said:
I noticed you neglected to answer the question and provide a max number of players value for what you believe a game should support.
Click to expand...
Oh sorry about that.

The game should support THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN CAP that it's set at.

So whatever an individual campaign worlds cap is dictates the maximum amount of rendered characters on the screen that the game can reliably handle.

Make sense?
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,613
12,745
Xaxius_sl said:
Need more devs like this guy. Keep in mind, this was the first MMO he ever worked on.



Turn CC on to read the translation.
Click to expand...
Awesome.

Hey Rescorla, in Japan they take ownership for fuck ups and feel shame. Here in the US, scapegoats and excuses. Kind of like what is going on right now.

I want you to think more like this guy. You can do it.
 
R

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Vitality_sl said:
Oh sorry about that.

The game should support THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN CAP that it's set at.

So whatever an individual campaign worlds cap is dictates the maximum amount of rendered characters on the screen that the game can reliably handle.

Make sense?
Click to expand...
Well your expectation is now clear but to me it is a completely unrealistic and technologically impossible to achieve expectation. Are you seriously under the belief an online game should be able to support a few thousand players all in the same general vicinity with no performance degradation?
 
Vitality

Vitality

ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
5,808
30
Rescorla_sl said:
Well your expectation is now clear but to me it is a completely unrealistic and technologically impossible to achieve expectation. Are you seriously under the belief an online game should be able to support a few thousand players all in the same general vicinity with no performance degradation?
Click to expand...
How about they lower the campaign cap? Ever think about that?

I never said a few thousand once. Quit putting words on my posts.

You guys decide how many people can be active in a campaign. For fucks sake.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,613
12,745
Rescorla_sl said:
Well your expectation is now clear but to me it is a completely unrealistic and technologically impossible to achieve expectation. Are you seriously under the belief an online game should be able to support a few thousand players all in the same general vicinity with no performance degradation?
Click to expand...
What are your thoughts on knowing that 14 years ago DAOC did what TESO cannot do today without the entire game shitting the bed?

Given that Technology isn't a factor, bandwidth obviously isn't a factor, that leaves 2.

1) Poor decision making on coding/design/implementation
2) Incompetence in coding.
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,547
11,831
Rescorla_sl said:
You may not be aware of what goes on when it comes to designing how games are played, but human psychology does indeed play a huge part in how design decisions are made. A popular movement in the game industry right now is the WWUW design approach. It stands for What Would Utnayan Want. If an answer to that question can be determined, the design decision is to go with the 180 degree opposite choice.
Click to expand...
Not when you're saying the problem with the game isn't that they didn't design something people wanted, but that people are wrong so they have to redesign the people.

Think about it. Your post literally said they've determined that the game they designed wasn't working from a technical perspective, but they couldn't fix it from a technical perspective, so they determined that the psychology of their players must be the problem and tried to change people's basic human psychology.

If they were smart and capable and doing what you say is so important, they wouldn't have been in the position in the first place.

Sorry, we're trying to be mature: You ass licking moron.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,613
12,745
popsicledeath_sl said:
It depends. Did the game devs first promise and hype large scale battles where tons of people could be on the screen at one time?
Click to expand...
I would say that was a resounding fucking "Yes".

It was all in-game. Cyrodiil (the PvP map) is open-world and supports up to 2000 players in it at the same time. ESO's client is designed to be able to handle (on the recommended spec) 200 players on screen at the same time. That particular scene had about 115 players on each side.
Click to expand...
Matt Firor from Elder Scrolls Online Talks about Team Play - The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - features - 2P.com

Putting on the Rescorla hat for a minute, I would say that Matt Firor was talking about the clients, not his server though!

Putting on the Utnayan/Vitality/everyone else in the fucking world hat: Matt Firor also said his open world supports up to 2000 players in it at the same time. Implying only client power would limit the amount on screen at once.

Here we have neither. In fact, Megaserver cannot even fucking hold 100 players in an area in ANY part of the world at any given time without half the fucking game breaking.

And why does this matter? Because Paul Sage told everyone to change their style of play because they cannot meet what they advertised and designed for and couldn't fix it all with more hardware, AND, new support documents and updates coming out that they are adding more hardware to fix all the same issues the PC version had before everyone quit and it became stable by default, which Sage said 3 months ago wouldn't fix the issues.

I mean this gets better and better everyday!

So I guess the last question is: Is the console version of the game using the same megaserver technology? Because if so, those folks are being fed a line of bullshit.
 
R

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Vitality_sl said:
How about they lower the campaign cap? Ever think about that?

I never said a few thousand once. Quit putting words on my posts.

You guys decide how many people can be active in a campaign. For fucks sake.
Click to expand...
I'm not putting any words in your mouth. You said you expected however high the population cap is was how many players the game should accomodate at all the same time with no degradation in performance. Do you now realize how unrealistic an expectation that is? Lowering the population cap is not a viable solution because Cyrodil is indeed designed to handle several thousand players all at once. Just not all in the same general vicinity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.