The Elder Scrolls Online

Utnayan

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Pardon the analogy but if you really want to change things then how the hell do you convince a billion people NOT to eat McDonalds? Do you target the products or do you target the producers?
Problem is it doesn't matter. In the game industry if you buy it you get more of it, and if you don't, it gets scapegoated anyway and no one ever gets made an example of. They just get hired somewhere else.

The model is completely 100% broken as it stands today.
 

Pyksel

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Problem is it doesn't matter. In the game industry if you buy it you get more of it, and if you don't, it gets scapegoated anyway and no one ever gets made an example of. They just get hired somewhere else.

The model is completely 100% broken as it stands today.
I think the idea that it's broken has been beaten to death thanks to folks like yourself and while that's great that you can point out all the negative aspects of it, what would impress me MORE is if you, or anyone for that matter, had a solution.
 

shabushabu

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Pardon the analogy but if you really want to change things then how the hell do you convince a billion people NOT to eat McDonalds? Do you target the products or do you target the producers?
In my opinion the only hope is for an independent developer ( indie or not owned by a public company ) to come out with something new. However, i am not aware of any AAA mmo developer that is not part of a public entity now other than the wildstar guys ( correct me if wrong ).

Call me naive ( i certainly do not have the level of insider info Ut does ) but the video game industry has been modeled after the movie industry in a big but worse way. On one hand you have a very few publishers ( studios ) funding projects but there is little PR/marketing in and around the creative minds behind games.. That was not the case a few years ago ( Vanguard, Lord Brittish MMO that tanked ) but these guys really contributed to the mess that we have today... they failed and now the $$ business owners are going with the "safe" bet.

I would bet that publisher control is worse than it ever was and why ? Because every damn MBA in the game industry is probably studying WoW because it made so damn much money. Of course, they approach WoW from a marketing and dollars approach which converts into a cheeseburger from MacDonald's..

The worst thing is the games that we think fail ( SWTOR, <insert MMO here with large box sales and no retention ) are likely successes from a financial standpoint.. until that changes our hobby is kinda gimped
 

Grim1

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/\/\ Brink!
smile.png
(Trivia tip: The same people who marketed Brink grassroots (We all know how that game turned out) are backing TESO grassroots currently. )



You are not understanding... They have no choice.

You of all people should know what a firm deadline is to ship right?

This is what happens when you fuck up your development cycle like this.

(And just to be fair to TESO, it's been like this for the last 10 years with every game that has been shipped)
I haven't seen anything that states their delivery date is set in stone. Maybe it is, perhaps someone could provide a link?

And delivery dates change all the time in the industry. Especially this far out. I'm sure they would rather not change the date, but it can be done.

It is also possible that they may not have to. I really haven't seen ANYTHING about this game other than a leaked video, a couple of hype videos and a ton of crying by the sandies. Maybe they are a lot farther along than is indicated by what little info is out there and they are just holding it all close to the vest.

It's all speculation at this point, based on very little knowledge of the actual state of the game. That is why I find all of this crying and whining to be so amusing.
 

Grim1

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I think the idea that it's broken has been beaten to death thanks to folks like yourself and while that's great that you can point out all the negative aspects of it, what would impress me MORE is if you, or anyone for that matter, had a solution.
Or actual proof.
 

Caliane

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It's certainly not the disaster of the century, that's SWTOR just based on the sheer amount of money they spent on it. The other disasters would be AOC, WAR and VG, though I wouldn't know how to rank them.

TESO is going to launch soon, as in this year. Once they start doing the convention circuit, you know they are coming soon. I would say it launch before E3 2014 easily. If I had to guess, it launches Q4 2013.

Be it's pretty easy to guess, with a good chance, that this game will really fail to live up to expectations because they have shown absolutely nothing so far. I expect games that are showing this little to be 2-3 years out. They are talking about a launch that is sooner than that, and all they are showing are videos of people in first person picking up vendor trash from the ground?

They should be showing gameplay videos. Here's another red flag: they banned cameras from video taping their PAX East demo. BANNED. That should raise a giant red flag the size of Ut's mouth. I'm an uber optimistic guy, but I know how to read between the lines. I have very little hope for this game from how they have been handling their PR. Shit that info dump they did when discussing their game for the first time was ugly. For a game with the Elder Scrolls logo on it, it was panned almost entirely across the internet.

Hell the masses are savvy enough to lol at them for saying "Hero Engine".

From what we've seen and read so far, this game is going to be average at best OR it's going to be amazing and somehow Zenimax hired the worst PR/Marketing people ever.
just for point, I think Amalur gets disaster of the century. Shit ruined lives.

SWTOR was just a clusterfuck.
 

TomServo

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If you are talking about the impact on people's lives as a result of how a project is run and delivered. I would say Amalur is 1st and Vanguard is 2nd.
 

Draegan_sl

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Pardon the analogy but if you really want to change things then how the hell do you convince a billion people NOT to eat McDonalds? Do you target the products or do you target the producers?
Thing is, even if you sell 1 million boxes, TESO probably won't come close to recouping their development costs. This shit has been brewing for a long time.
 

Pyksel

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Thing is, even if you sell 1 million boxes, TESO probably won't come close to recouping their development costs. This shit has been brewing for a long time.
It was more of a rhetorical question as opposed to targeting TESO specifically.
 

Draegan_sl

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I think the idea that it's broken has been beaten to death thanks to folks like yourself and while that's great that you can point out all the negative aspects of it, what would impress me MORE is if you, or anyone for that matter, had a solution.
The solution will come. Since these games take years to make, it will take more compounded years to fix. It probably will take another cycle or two to flush out all the bad design ideas. It will happen naturally.

We just started getting decent games like GW2 and Rift (though Rift got worse as time went on), and it will take some time as those devs that did things right, bubble to the top as the old devs bubble out. It'll happen, but it's going to take a fucking long time or some really rich guy, that's a good business man that isn't Curt Schilling.
 

Utnayan

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I think the idea that it's broken has been beaten to death thanks to folks like yourself and while that's great that you can point out all the negative aspects of it, what would impress me MORE is if you, or anyone for that matter, had a solution.
The solution is an industry crash, and starting over. Which will then come to another result just like this, and it will crash again. It's not going to happen as games and media merge even further.

Welcome to capitalism.
 

Grim1

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The solution is an industry crash, and starting over. Which will then come to another result just like this, and it will crash again. It's not going to happen as games and media merge even further.

Welcome to capitalism.
You and Draegan are asking for a solution to a problem the industry doesn't think exists. The vast majority of mmos are hugely profitable, and for the suits that is success. SWTOR is the only recently "released" mmo that was a major disapointment to the stockholders. But apparently even it is profitable.

Their budget isn't anywhere near SWTOR's, so TESO is almost guaranteed to make money for the companies involved. The players may label the game a failure but the investors will be laughing while they take that "failure" to the bank.

MMO's make money, TONS of it. Even the crappy ones. That is why they keep churning them out.
 

Utnayan

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You and Draegan are asking for a solution to a problem the industry doesn't think exists. The vast majority of mmos are hugely profitable, and for the suits that is success. SWTOR is the only recently "released" mmo that was a major disapointment to the stockholders. But apparently even it is profitable.

Their budget isn't anywhere near SWTOR's, so TESO is almost guaranteed to make money for the companies involved. The players may label the game a failure but the investors will be laughing while they take that "failure" to the bank.

MMO's make money, TONS of it. Even the crappy ones. That is why they keep churning them out.
You are completely and totally right. One of these days, someone up there will look at the opportunity cost lost and the money they * could * have made. Rather than settling for profits that are expected. And then we will see games worth a shit. More games like Bioshock Infinite.
 

Caliane

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You are completely and totally right. One of these days, someone up there will look at the opportunity cost lost and the money they * could * have made. Rather than settling for profits that are expected. And then we will see games worth a shit. More games like Bioshock Infinite.
Bioshock inf didnt sell that well really.

3.9m shipped. which means less actually sold.
Considering dev time, and 3rd in series. that is.. kindof terrible really. especially when you consider all the stellar reviews and such.

The lessen to learn here is not, good alt games can make good profits unfortunately. nope. meanwhile, simcity, d3, CoD, etc..

When Tombraider is a "failure" at 6m sold.. I can only hope Inf ward was a hell of alot better at their budgeting.
 

Dom_sl

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The solution will come. Since these games take years to make, it will take more compounded years to fix. It probably will take another cycle or two to flush out all the bad design ideas. It will happen naturally.

We just started getting decent games like GW2 and Rift (though Rift got worse as time went on), and it will take some time as those devs that did things right, bubble to the top as the old devs bubble out. It'll happen, but it's going to take a fucking long time or some really rich guy, that's a good business man that isn't Curt Schilling.
I wouldn't hold your breath. Gaming has shown over the decades that genres are heavily front-loaded when it comes to things worthy of praise. The industry takes those unique genius ideas that form a game genre and rapes them to the point of inbred stagnancy. Eventually someone comes along and creates something new and unique and the cycle just repeats. If we ever see a new MMO worth a damn it will be so unlike anything we've ever seen that it won't even fit within our general definition of an MMO. Shitty part being that it will feel so unlike what we thought we wanted that we bitter vets will hate it.
 

Gecko_sl

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You are completely and totally right. One of these days, someone up there will look at the opportunity cost lost and the money they * could * have made. Rather than settling for profits that are expected.
The ugly part of corporate America is the MBA Manager in Finance who makes decisions based on spreadsheets from trending data, and could give a shit less about your subjective ideas of what should be done. Fuck you, you dirty artist. Give me proven winners and sustained guaranteed Madden and Assassin Creed recognition and growth.

I don't see a new MMO on the horizon that goes more than a foot outside of the predefined box. That makes me a sad panda.
 

Blackwulf

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It is also possible that they may not have to. I really haven't seen ANYTHING about this game other than a leaked video, a couple of hype videos and a ton of crying by the sandies. Maybe they are a lot farther along than is indicated by what little info is out there and they are just holding it all close to the vest.

It's all speculation at this point, based on very little knowledge of the actual state of the game. That is why I find all of this crying and whining to be so amusing.
This sums up how I feel at this point. Yeah, I'm a little skeptical based on what has been shown, but I also think that there's too much money, and too many experienced people involved for this not to be a LOT further along than Utnayan's tinfoil hat theories would suggest. Only time will tell.