Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
- 28,537
- 45,064
The Girls Who Broke Your Heart Thread
- Thread starter Wintermute
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Dashel
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,836
- 2,939
Speaking of temptation and GWBYH. The girl who resulted in a lot of heartache for me a long time ago, 10 years or so? Is now back in my life. Not sure what to do about it.
Thing of it is, we are both married now. She got married a couple of years ago. We always kept in general contact. A text or email here and there. But now it's become regular, daily texting and IM. We've hung out 4 or 5 times now in the past 3 weeks. It's back to how it was when we were very close, even if we weren't dating. Nothing has happened in terms of cheating. Nothing more than a hug hello or goodbye, kiss on the cheek kind of thing. But just the amount of talking and seeing each other, and there is an undeniable sexual tension.
If she was just some random ex, this wouldn't be an issue. We'd either be friends or not. But this girl was almost the one, if you know what I mean. One of a very few people I've met in my life that we have a long lasting connection. She's confessed to me she wishes I would have stayed close to her and given "us" another shot.
I'd like to stay friends with her but I dont know if that's practical or smart.
Thing of it is, we are both married now. She got married a couple of years ago. We always kept in general contact. A text or email here and there. But now it's become regular, daily texting and IM. We've hung out 4 or 5 times now in the past 3 weeks. It's back to how it was when we were very close, even if we weren't dating. Nothing has happened in terms of cheating. Nothing more than a hug hello or goodbye, kiss on the cheek kind of thing. But just the amount of talking and seeing each other, and there is an undeniable sexual tension.
If she was just some random ex, this wouldn't be an issue. We'd either be friends or not. But this girl was almost the one, if you know what I mean. One of a very few people I've met in my life that we have a long lasting connection. She's confessed to me she wishes I would have stayed close to her and given "us" another shot.
I'd like to stay friends with her but I dont know if that's practical or smart.
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 11,041
- 794
Well, the basic disagreement between you and him here is that you see these things as socially imposed and he does not. You say society places this outlook of market values upon us. What you have refused to ever acknowledge is the possibility that we create these marketplace societies because we are wired to seek value ratios in everything we encounter. We innately weigh risk/reward, cost/benefit, it isn't some evil fabricated construct its an adaptive process. Risk aversion and maximizing gains is best for our survival, its no wonder we extend this deep rooted tactic to every aspect of life and of higher consciousness just as we would on basic needs levels.
Taking stock of a situation and determining a course of action based on outcomes is essential to survival for individuals and for groups. You assign moral value judgements to it because you can't accept the unfairness inherent in our social attempts (and failures) to evenly spread the results across individuals. But that doesn't prove that it is external to our psyches or that it is somehow "wrong". We create market conditions as an extension of what has worked for us as a species. Your hatred of this approach is more hatred of humanity than of any system.
As far as love....I personally have come to believe that romantic love is much more limited than we like to portray it. Real unconditional love in my opinion exists only between parents and children, potentially siblings,maybesome other extended blood family depending on how you were raised. Between a man and woman as breeding/habitation partners? I'm not going to say its impossible, but I think its far more difficult to create that bond of protection with a partner for the average person.
Lusiphur
Peasant
- 595
- 47
You know you aren't going to stay friends and this is going to end very badly unless you cut it off now. Seriously.
EDIT :
I should probably expand. Let's look at possibilities here and I am placing them in order of likelihood.
1) Her marriage is going through a rough patch and she is looking for some 'safe' external validation.
2) Her marriage is going through a rough patch and she is evaluating the options, starting with the easiest for her to get.
3) Your wife finds out and nukes you from orbit.
4) Her marriage is going through a rough patch, you and her hook up but she flakes on it because she wants to go back to the husband.
5) She's playing you for some unforeseen angle.
6) You and her skip merrily off into the sunset because she is 'the one'.
How many of those are a win for you? That's right, not very many.
If you really are serious about this then one of you has to take the first step and sit down and have a real conversation with your spouses. This kind of sneaking around always gets found out and always ends in tears.
EDIT :
I should probably expand. Let's look at possibilities here and I am placing them in order of likelihood.
1) Her marriage is going through a rough patch and she is looking for some 'safe' external validation.
2) Her marriage is going through a rough patch and she is evaluating the options, starting with the easiest for her to get.
3) Your wife finds out and nukes you from orbit.
4) Her marriage is going through a rough patch, you and her hook up but she flakes on it because she wants to go back to the husband.
5) She's playing you for some unforeseen angle.
6) You and her skip merrily off into the sunset because she is 'the one'.
How many of those are a win for you? That's right, not very many.
If you really are serious about this then one of you has to take the first step and sit down and have a real conversation with your spouses. This kind of sneaking around always gets found out and always ends in tears.
- 3,501
- 3,222
No mention of your wife in all of this? Seriously? She doesn't even factor in?
Either you cut ties and save your marriage (if it's worth anything) or you fuck the hell out of this soon to be cheating slut - from what you've said she's primed for it - and hopefully you do the right thing and end this sham of a marriage you have if you are considering this.
McCheese
SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
- 6,922
- 4,327
Who initiated the recent, more frequent interactions? If it was her, it sounds like she might not be so happy in her marriage anymore. And what does your wife think about you spending so much time together? It sounds like a dangerous situation to me.
*edit* Lol, 3 posts basically saying the same thing all within minutes of each other. Get the fuck out of this situation if you value your marriage!
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 11,041
- 794
Yeah, the way you've described it the relationship with her is obviously inappropriate and headed for dangerous waters. I wouldn't be surprise if you found out all sorts of discontentment with her and her marriage as you get deeper into conversations. Hey, it could be the perfect crime too though, maybe you both just want some side action. But that's never a sure fire thing, she could change gears and expose you or just get caught otherwise.
Dashel
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,836
- 2,939
Both spouses are aware of the very basics: She and I are and have been friends for years. We are hanging out, in public and usually with others. first time we hung out it was with a group of her co-workers. She invited me and my wife to a party, and invited me to meet her husband at some thing they were both doing in the city with some other people. None of that ever happened yet but we're at least trying to keep things above board. If that makes sense.
I dont know if her marriage is in a rough spot, mine is but that has been going on for a while and pre-dates any of this. The real problem is I would love to stay just friends with her because we really do get along well together... but as everyone here indicated it seems to be just asking for trouble.
In the past when this has come up, as I said, I stayed clear. This time I'm feeling like "Well why cant we still be friends, what's so wrong with that".
When we hung out for the first time a few weeks ago, she and I talked in the car for a while as I dropped her at the train. As she got out to leave she said "I know you're just going to disappear again" because that's what I've done in the past. Only I didnt this time.
I dont know if her marriage is in a rough spot, mine is but that has been going on for a while and pre-dates any of this. The real problem is I would love to stay just friends with her because we really do get along well together... but as everyone here indicated it seems to be just asking for trouble.
In the past when this has come up, as I said, I stayed clear. This time I'm feeling like "Well why cant we still be friends, what's so wrong with that".
When we hung out for the first time a few weeks ago, she and I talked in the car for a while as I dropped her at the train. As she got out to leave she said "I know you're just going to disappear again" because that's what I've done in the past. Only I didnt this time.
Void
BAU BAU
- 9,929
- 11,939
I am not going to say that you are completely wrong or that there's clearly some fucked up shit when trying to figure out relationships, but I'm genuinely interested in what you would prefer. If you want to just go along with biology or evolution and leave society out of it, we'd be fucking every female we could, and probably against their will in many cases because we're physically stronger and tend to be more aggressive. We'd be beating the shit out of the guy who is with the girl we want (or being the one getting the shit beaten out of) because we're bigger and stronger than that guy and he's not getting out of the way. We'd be leaving the women to raise the kids without us if we decided we wanted to move on and fuck someone else, etc.
It is only society that has imposed any sort of responsibility and tempered these actions. I'm not saying every single imposition has been for the best, but it is what we have that separates us from the days of cavemen beating women over the head and dragging them back to their cave, after perhaps killing the guy she was with.
Obviously I've gone to extremes here, and we're far removed from all of that, but what restrictions and/or encouragements would you prefer that society impose on our biological and evolutionary imperatives? You can't just say we're all sick without offering a better solution. Well, you can, but you shouldn't.
I'm genuinely curious.
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 19,577
- 3,743
i think love is women's invention. that's my opinion heh. like how women like Notebook movie and romcom, in general. some women don't, a lot of women do. notebook is bullshit from my perspective though. fuck love, man.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 46,874
- 100,206
So how many times do you think your wife has cheated on you?
Notebook is just a more dressed up version of tTwilight.
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 19,577
- 3,743
we could. women should be having children earlier (by simple fertility/risk and reward ratio...longer you wait, greater the chance of your child coming out like a zombie and autistic), but the opposite is happening. According to ancient greeks (from wiki lol), they encouraged 14 year old girls to marry a 30 year old man. Simply put, for better fertility. Chinese glorified fat Chinese women with fat ass. Better fertility. There were like fertility goddess and shit. Considering thwho knows. I think some social pressure to encourage responsibility has a net benefit rather than a net loss.
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 19,577
- 3,743
nao leadsalad. i think that's extreme. (I will come home and edit this, cuz i got a few data/research paper on why women divorce and break relationships).
Leadsalad
Cis-XYite-Nationalist
- 6,226
- 12,992
Sure, but why do women see sexual relations outside of a marriage? Shouldn't you, with a rational mind either work on the marriage if it's shitty or bail out? She's grasping for that next branch without getting out of the tree in the first place.
And 10 years is quite a long time. And women suffer the ravages of age far earlier than men do.
But I will place blame at both of their feet for engaging in and continuing this behavior in the first place with their current marriages still legally binding.
For the woman, saving her marriage might mean that she has to get her husband to stop bending to her will and reassume some level of leadership in their marriage and in the bedroom. He's clearly failing in one or both of these areas if she's busy trying to be a floozy on the side.
Dashel should also do the same in his marriage or break it off now. Both of these people are 50% of their respective relationships and clearly not doing their jobs correctly.
Quite a good read from a woman's perspective on fixing a marriage that she's aware of was breaking down - http://redpillwifery.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/introduction-part-1-intentions/ It's 5 parts long but the whole blog (tl:dr I know) has been quite good.
And 10 years is quite a long time. And women suffer the ravages of age far earlier than men do.
But I will place blame at both of their feet for engaging in and continuing this behavior in the first place with their current marriages still legally binding.
For the woman, saving her marriage might mean that she has to get her husband to stop bending to her will and reassume some level of leadership in their marriage and in the bedroom. He's clearly failing in one or both of these areas if she's busy trying to be a floozy on the side.
Dashel should also do the same in his marriage or break it off now. Both of these people are 50% of their respective relationships and clearly not doing their jobs correctly.
Quite a good read from a woman's perspective on fixing a marriage that she's aware of was breaking down - http://redpillwifery.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/introduction-part-1-intentions/ It's 5 parts long but the whole blog (tl:dr I know) has been quite good.
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 11,041
- 794
The biggest thing is, you've been with her before in the past and it didn't work out. Why would you risk the hell of divorce (even though your marriage is on the rocks at the moment anyway) for something that was a bad decision once already? You say she was the one (doesn't exist) but still it wasn't "meant to be" right? Was the sex that great? I'd sort of sympathize if you were talking about "one"that got away, because at least then you are getting the prize that previously eluded you and a touch of revenge for prior rejection. But this situation is rekindling an old flame that long since sputtered out, and potentially ruining four lives in the process.
Are there kids involved? Because selfishly risking putting them through divorce is fucked up. You could get side action a bunch of different ways, this is mainly just convenience for you. You aren't as special to each other as you have made it out to be in your memory.
Hey, if you can really be friends with her great. But you wouldn't be posting here if there wasn't something more to it, and its certainly not what you've described.
Are there kids involved? Because selfishly risking putting them through divorce is fucked up. You could get side action a bunch of different ways, this is mainly just convenience for you. You aren't as special to each other as you have made it out to be in your memory.
Hey, if you can really be friends with her great. But you wouldn't be posting here if there wasn't something more to it, and its certainly not what you've described.
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 19,577
- 3,743
From men's experience, they would rather not risk a divorce after maybe 10-20 years and just put up with it because he built that family unit from scratch if he married early and had nothing. Divorce breaks their wealth in half and more (alimony..permanent in some states until death...holy shit...) That's the common complaints I hear from men who got divorced by their women. I had this one guy who lost his company and had to go back working as a truck driver because divorce nearly bankrupted him and 2 of his houses had to be refinanced and shit. it's insane what women can do to a man in a divorce.
Will you stop posting opinions? You said yourself you don't know how to talk to girls and you have few social skills. You base your "understanding" of women on theories of other people while having zero or next to zero real experience. You dont see the problem with that?
Dashel - obviously you cannot be friends with this person. If you value your marriage, stop seeing her. Continuing to see hher will bring added stress to the marriage bc both your spouses will see it