The Last of Us

LiquidDeath · Sep 7, 2022

Szlia said:
I am pretty sure you have it completely backward along with a copious amount of tin foil on top your head. What is most likely happening is that the bean counters ask for market data and see gigantic gaping holes in the demographics. This is without a doubt a correct assessment of the situation and while some people might go "oh well... at least we are doing well in the demos we target" the reaction of the typical bean counters is : "Expand the market please, we currently don't reach X, Y and Z with our products." Now, how do you go about doing that ? You do multiple products going after different specific targets or you try to have a big tent product. By economy of scale, you often see the latter and the low hanging fruit when you try to do that is to include themes, characters and actors that appeal to X, Y and Z. A slightly higher hanging fruit is to hire in your crew some X,Y and Z, because if you don't you increase the odds of missing the mark for the X,Y and Z targets you try to reach. The calculation is that, depending of the product you try to apply the formula to and depending of the skill of the people involved, you might alienate a part of your original audience, but, short term, as long as you gain more than you lose, it's ok. The long term math might even be that losing more than you gain is still ok, because you lose people who did not like that specific product but are still interested in that category of products and you gain people who were not interested in that category of products before.

It's probably a bit different with something like Last of Us 2, where you have an author who is also the vice-president of the studio and making hit after hit. He has almost total creative freedom and will do with it whatever he wants. It's very unlikely PlayStation Studios will ever get involved based on sales numbers, because with its ICE Team, Naughty Dog is basically a R&D center creating high end tools for other studios that also happens to make award winning blockbuster games.

Sure, sure.

Now point out the successful woke sequels that prove these untapped demos buy the games.

Utnayan · Sep 8, 2022

LiquidDeath said:
Sure, sure.

Now point out the successful woke sequels that prove these untapped demos buy the games.

Exactly.

Problem is, and always has been, sales reflect the previous success of a game with a sequel in an IP. It gets even more complex when looking at sales total's across two generations.

With that said, 20 million for Last of us across PS3 and PS4. Roughly 3.4 million units (estimated) were on PS3 (Believe it or not) with 16.6 million units (estimated) on PS4.

So in contrast, let's solely take TLOU sales on PS4 by itself since TLOU2 was only on PS4 as well.

16.6 Million for TLOU
10 Million for TLOU2

For a HIGHLY anticipated sequel, in a very highly popular 1st party Sony IP - the sequel should have been at LEAST 25%-30% over the previous sales number.

Instead? TLOU 2 took a 39.759% DECREASE in sales over it's 1st game on the same platform which saw MASSIVE success.

Never before has this been seen in the industry with a 1st party exclusive and highly regarded IP for a sequel.

Gee - wonder what happened....

So they can target that demographic all they want. The opportunity cost lost with the main demographic they * should * be targeting (People who just want well written stories without shoe horned equality/inclusion shit thrown in and poorly written at that, going against favorite characters in a game) shows exactly what happens. The destruction/erosion of an IP and Last of us 3 will suffer greatly without PR spin and deflections of TLOU 2.

There is a reason why publishers are now backing away from this bullshit. The experiment is over. The penetration of this into the development of games is coming to an end if money is still to be made. From Discovery cancelling damn all woke bullshit series' in development for HBO Max, to developer firing of KOTOR remake and their blue haired shit - the infestation is being noticed and slowly but surely this pandering to the .001% via virtue signaling is being stopped as the bean counters can SEE the impact it is having across their sales markets and entertainment industries.

The voting with the wallets work - and it will continue to work. Entertainment wide across shows, movies and games - we are seeing the massive decline in revenue.

Two choices: Make a new IP around whatever they want to make and go from there and see if it sells. 2) Continue to infest known IP's with woke bullshit remakes destroying canon and it will continue to fuck your business over.

It's that simple.

Mizake · Sep 8, 2022

I'm part of that demographic.

Last of Us is one of my favorite games of all time. Like top 3. I've finished the whole campaign 3 or 4 times. I loved the multiplayer. Still one of the best stories ever in a video game imo.

When I heard about TLOU2 coming out, I was pumped. Day 1 purchase for sure. Then I heard the person who wrote TLOU was no longer involved in the project. So this had me a little worried because it's like how the Matrix has such a great story but the sequels seemed a lot worse. Or take GoT and how the last seasons sucked once they ran out of the original source material. In any case, still was going to buy it.

Then I heard they axed Joel early on, and the whole thing was going to be some revenge story about a different character I had zero connection with. So I decided not to purchase it until I read more reviews after it came out. And when it came out, it was just a hard pass for me. I still have not played it, and I have no intentions of ever playing it. I would rather preserve my good memories of TLOU1 rather than pollute it with any disappointment I might have playing TLOU2.

So I am a lost sale because of the direction they took. I can't be the only one.

It gets even worse. I can't trust Naughty Dog now as a company (much like Blizzard), so anything they release from now on I will have to evaluate post-release before buying. No more day 1 purchases or pre-orders for me. This is in direct contrast with something like FROM, which I will pre-order without hesitation.

spronk · Sep 8, 2022

speaking of the OG uncharted director being kicked out by cuckmann

Ambiturner · Sep 9, 2022

Utnayan said:
Exactly.

Problem is, and always has been, sales reflect the previous success of a game with a sequel in an IP. It gets even more complex when looking at sales total's across two generations.

With that said, 20 million for Last of us across PS3 and PS4. Roughly 3.4 million units (estimated) were on PS3 (Believe it or not) with 16.6 million units (estimated) on PS4.

So in contrast, let's solely take TLOU sales on PS4 by itself since TLOU2 was only on PS4 as well.

16.6 Million for TLOU
10 Million for TLOU2

For a HIGHLY anticipated sequel, in a very highly popular 1st party Sony IP - the sequel should have been at LEAST 25%-30% over the previous sales number.

Instead? TLOU 2 took a 39.759% DECREASE in sales over it's 1st game on the same platform which saw MASSIVE success.

Never before has this been seen in the industry with a 1st party exclusive and highly regarded IP for a sequel.

Gee - wonder what happened....

So they can target that demographic all they want. The opportunity cost lost with the main demographic they * should * be targeting (People who just want well written stories without shoe horned equality/inclusion shit thrown in and poorly written at that, going against favorite characters in a game) shows exactly what happens. The destruction/erosion of an IP and Last of us 3 will suffer greatly without PR spin and deflections of TLOU 2.

There is a reason why publishers are now backing away from this bullshit. The experiment is over. The penetration of this into the development of games is coming to an end if money is still to be made. From Discovery cancelling damn all woke bullshit series' in development for HBO Max, to developer firing of KOTOR remake and their blue haired shit - the infestation is being noticed and slowly but surely this pandering to the .001% via virtue signaling is being stopped as the bean counters can SEE the impact it is having across their sales markets and entertainment industries.

The voting with the wallets work - and it will continue to work. Entertainment wide across shows, movies and games - we are seeing the massive decline in revenue.

Two choices: Make a new IP around whatever they want to make and go from there and see if it sells. 2) Continue to infest known IP's with woke bullshit remakes destroying canon and it will continue to fuck your business over.

It's that simple.

lol whatever.

Szlia already explained why it's smart to alienate millions of your loyal fans so you can please hundreds of people who won't buy your games anyways

Rajaah · Sep 9, 2022

Ambiturner said:
lol whatever.

Szlia already explained why it's smart to alienate millions of your loyal fans so you can please hundreds of people who won't buy your games anyways

Hundreds, indeed.

Back during the Bathroom Brouhaha of the early (or was it mid) 2010's, someone was telling me that we needed to have "sweeping change" in how bathrooms are organized, and that we should make all bathrooms non-gender-specific. I said this would kinda disenfranchise women since they'd have to be alone in these spaces with men and would probably result in a lot of assaults. Then the person suggested that the alternative was adding a third bathroom to every public place, a trans/nonbinary exclusive bathroom for people who don't want to be included in the other two categories.

I asked if all of this kowtowing and massive adjustment was really necessary to appease what is apparently only like 0.1% of the population. The guy said something to the effect that "so if a group is small, they don't matter?"

And at that point I just kinda went "ok"

Ambiturner · Sep 9, 2022

Rajaah said:
Hundreds, indeed.

Back during the Bathroom Brouhaha of the early (or was it mid) 2010's, someone was telling me that we needed to have "sweeping change" in how bathrooms are organized, and that we should make all bathrooms non-gender-specific. I said this would kinda disenfranchise women since they'd have to be alone in these spaces with men and would probably result in a lot of assaults. Then the person suggested that the alternative was adding a third bathroom to every public place, a trans/nonbinary exclusive bathroom for people who don't want to be included in the other two categories.

I asked if all of this kowtowing and massive adjustment was really necessary to appease what is apparently only like 0.1% of the population. The guy said something to the effect that "so if a group is small, they don't matter?"

And at that point I just kinda went "ok"

The correct answer is "Yes".

Actually, that's not true. The correct answer is "Shut the fuck up, Faggot"

wormie · Dec 20, 2022

Finally played the game and it was superb. One of the better games I have ever played. Very glad they left it alone and never made any sequels that ruin the whole thing.

Phazael · Dec 21, 2022

wormie said:
Finally played the game and it was superb. One of the better games I have ever played. Very glad they left it alone and never made any sequels that ruin the whole thing.

When you are funny, you are funny Wormie.

Pasteton · Feb 21, 2023

I didn’t want to play TLOu2 as I got too many other games occupying my time, but ended up watching a YouTube video of basically all cutscenes/dialogue. I think the hate train is way too overdone on this game. Ellie was a certified badass in the games closing parts and that last arc made up for a lot of the second half of the game where you’re playing the hulk girl. The scene where she juked that dummy into getting shredded by the clicker was esp great.

Also I remember a lot of trans related jokes in this thread, but from best I could tell Abby was just a buff ass female I’ve seen plenty of ufc chicks lookin like that including that jawline. I don’t recall any woke shit related to trans or whatever in any of the dialogue.

overrall , game was well written and well voiced with some exceptions and dull dialogue here and there. It’s certainly inferior to tlou in all these things as well as regarding the power of the narrative - however tlou was an exceptionally good game and I would still say this sequels narrative is overall strong.

I disagree with how they did Joel’s death but it’s not like he disappeared from the game. Due to the ridiculous number of flash backs and embedded flashbacks (they went overboard on this) you still end up seeing a lot of him in the game.

Sequel is a solid 7-8/10. Basing this purely on the narrative as I didn’t actually play it. Where as original was a high 10/10.

conpletely unfair to shit on this game to the degree it was as you have to give some space for true dumpster fires like andromeda and many others .

Hekotat · Feb 21, 2023

Pasteton said:
I didn’t want to play TLOu2 as I got too many other games occupying my time, but ended up watching a YouTube video of basically all cutscenes/dialogue. I think the hate train is way too overdone on this game. Ellie was a certified badass in the games closing parts and that last arc made up for a lot of the second half of the game where you’re playing the hulk girl. The scene where she juked that dummy into getting shredded by the clicker was esp great.

Also I remember a lot of trans related jokes in this thread, but from best I could tell Abby was just a buff ass female I’ve seen plenty of ufc chicks lookin like that including that jawline. I don’t recall any woke shit related to trans or whatever in any of the dialogue.

overrall , game was well written and well voiced with some exceptions and dull dialogue here and there. It’s certainly inferior to tlou in all these things as well as regarding the power of the narrative - however tlou was an exceptionally good game and I would still say this sequels narrative is overall strong.

I disagree with how they did Joel’s death but it’s not like he disappeared from the game. Due to the ridiculous number of flash backs and embedded flashbacks (they went overboard on this) you still end up seeing a lot of him in the game.

Sequel is a solid 7-8/10. Basing this purely on the narrative as I didn’t actually play it. Where as original was a high 10/10.

conpletely unfair to shit on this game to the degree it was as you have to give some space for true dumpster fires like andromeda and many others .

10 years ago I wouldn't have given a shit on the direction they took the game as long as it was good. I wouldn't even have cared if it was a women or man, however, the industry has gone to such great lengths to jam their agenda down our throats that the backlash has grown equally as bad as their push.

Due to this many gamers, myself included, won't even give the project in question a chance and they brought this on themselves. We've watched every facet of the world become destroyed by this culture that we just don't give a fuck anymore. It might be a good game, show, book or whatever. But if it has even one person involved with the project make some absurd statement about Diversity, Inclusion, Equity or LGBT nonsense I will forget it ever existed.

Ritley · Feb 21, 2023

Pasteton said:
I didn’t want to play TLOu2 as I got too many other games occupying my time, but ended up watching a YouTube video of basically all cutscenes/dialogue. I think the hate train is way too overdone on this game. Ellie was a certified badass in the games closing parts and that last arc made up for a lot of the second half of the game where you’re playing the hulk girl. The scene where she juked that dummy into getting shredded by the clicker was esp great.

Also I remember a lot of trans related jokes in this thread, but from best I could tell Abby was just a buff ass female I’ve seen plenty of ufc chicks lookin like that including that jawline. I don’t recall any woke shit related to trans or whatever in any of the dialogue.

overrall , game was well written and well voiced with some exceptions and dull dialogue here and there. It’s certainly inferior to tlou in all these things as well as regarding the power of the narrative - however tlou was an exceptionally good game and I would still say this sequels narrative is overall strong.

I disagree with how they did Joel’s death but it’s not like he disappeared from the game. Due to the ridiculous number of flash backs and embedded flashbacks (they went overboard on this) you still end up seeing a lot of him in the game.

Sequel is a solid 7-8/10. Basing this purely on the narrative as I didn’t actually play it. Where as original was a high 10/10.

conpletely unfair to shit on this game to the degree it was as you have to give some space for true dumpster fires like andromeda and many others .

There’s literally a trans story arc. Ellie is a lesbo. Abby is an ugly bull dyke at best that everyone hates. They killed off Joel, the only real masculine character.

Pasteton · Feb 21, 2023

Wtf is the trans story arc? Guess it wasnt part of the play thru I watched. Ellie being a lesbo is really that bad? It’s not a big part of the story at all. And Joel being masculine just has nothing to do with the story. If anything it feels like the whole point of the story is how much Ellie becomes Joel before finally turning away.

there’s a pretty meaningful story about guilt, empathy and hatred and it’s presented pretty authentically and unapologetically from what I can tell. Im not saying it’s some high art masterpiece but by video game standards it’s excellent. I don’t get it, I legitimately have seen some games with hamfisted wokeness shoved in for some purple hair cred, I am just not seeing it here. Maybe I need to actually play the game myself but after a 10 hour play thru I doubt I missed much.

Abby’s not even a dyke. She’s just a flat chested ugly chick. I dunno maybe something’s wrong with me but that doesn’t bother me that much. If I wanted to jerk off to on screen chars I have loads of Korean games to choose from. As far as I can tell Abby didn’t insist on being called abel or demand pegging Owen or beat someone up for confusing pronouns. She was just an ugly person that killed a loved character. That’s the whole setup for the game’s arc.

if you’re just mad that the game wasnt centered around Joel as the primary char then ur overlooking a solid story that still has everything to do with him

Gavinmad · Feb 21, 2023

Pasteton said:
best I could tell Abby was just a buff ass female I’ve seen plenty of ufc chicks lookin like that including that jawline

Yeah and those UFC chicks have the benefit of nutrition specialists, personal trainers, well outfitted gyms, dietary supplements, etc, and for photo ops you can add professional photographers and a short term shedding of water weight to enhance muscle definition. No female could look like that during a fucking zombie apocalypse.

Pasteton said:
As far as I can tell Abby didn’t insist on being called abel

No shit, because Abby is a man pretending to be a woman.

RobXIII · Feb 21, 2023

Mizake said:
I'm part of that demographic.

Last of Us is one of my favorite games of all time. Like top 3. I've finished the whole campaign 3 or 4 times. I loved the multiplayer. Still one of the best stories ever in a video game imo.

When I heard about TLOU2 coming out, I was pumped. Day 1 purchase for sure. Then I heard the person who wrote TLOU was no longer involved in the project. So this had me a little worried because it's like how the Matrix has such a great story but the sequels seemed a lot worse. Or take GoT and how the last seasons sucked once they ran out of the original source material. In any case, still was going to buy it.

Then I heard they axed Joel early on, and the whole thing was going to be some revenge story about a different character I had zero connection with. So I decided not to purchase it until I read more reviews after it came out. And when it came out, it was just a hard pass for me. I still have not played it, and I have no intentions of ever playing it. I would rather preserve my good memories of TLOU1 rather than pollute it with any disappointment I might have playing TLOU2.

So I am a lost sale because of the direction they took. I can't be the only one.

It gets even worse. I can't trust Naughty Dog now as a company (much like Blizzard), so anything they release from now on I will have to evaluate post-release before buying. No more day 1 purchases or pre-orders for me. This is in direct contrast with something like FROM, which I will pre-order without hesitation.

This is exactly why I avoided TLOU2, and even if it's free on PS plus I won't waste the bandwidth. It's a shame, because the sequel had so much potential to build on the first one, but they went ahead and just destroyed everything, and forced you to play as their wrecking ball. /puke

They are still a great gaming company, I hope they churn out hits still, but this time without trying to appease a tiny minority, or doing it solely to SUBVERT YOUR EXPECTATIONS

Regime · Feb 21, 2023

RobXIII said:
This is exactly why I avoided TLOU2, and even if it's free on PS plus I won't waste the bandwidth. It's a shame, because the sequel had so much potential to build on the first one, but they went ahead and just destroyed everything, and forced you to play as their wrecking ball. /puke

They are still a great gaming company, I hope they churn out hits still, but this time without trying to appease a tiny minority, or doing it solely to SUBVERT YOUR EXPECTATIONS

Last of us 2 is free for PlayStation plus ?

Hekotat · Feb 21, 2023

Regime said:
Last of us 2 is free for PlayStation plus ?

WHITE KNIGHT ALERT!!!!!

Regime · Feb 22, 2023

Hekotat said:
WHITE KNIGHT ALERT!!!!!

That’s the same siren

Brahma hits when

Hekotat dies yet again in a BR.

Brahma · Feb 22, 2023

Regime said:
That’s the same siren Brahma hits when Hekotat dies yet again in a BR.

LOL!!

Soygen · Feb 22, 2023

Regime said:
Last of us 2 is free for PlayStation plus ?

It was(is?) like 9 bucks for PS+ members last week. At that price, the bargain was finally higher than my disinterest in it. Will give it a shot after Hogwarts. I feel that we've hated on TLoU2 so hard, that it can't possibly be as bad as we've memed it into being.

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