The Matrix reboot/remake

It was a superhero movie where the superhero is modifying the code of reality with his brain in real time. Totally science.

Arbitrary said:

Yes sure, if you tried to kick Charon off his boat or ran afoul of the Furies you were fucked. The Furies were powerful enough to punish gods and Charon was supreme in his domain even if his domain was a boat.

But that's all fantasy stuff. I want science fiction, damn it. Explain the SCIENCE.

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That's the thing. Plato's cave, the hero's journey, computer speak to invert fantastical elements. Guns and EMPs instead of swords. Machines and software instead of spirits and sprites. Mythic storytelling in scifi skin.

Those are just bare bones ingredients though. Just because you are lifting some themes doesn't mean you also lift the shit that contradicts what you've already put on the screen. Charon's going to eat your lunch if you try and kick him off his boat. Fine. The Train Man isn't Charon. He's a computer program in a simulation taking a gigantic shit on our Jesus allegory in a film series that has all its own baggage already.

It's like in a video game where you go jump someone you aren't supposed to fight and get death touched.

And I don't want Neo to punch his way out of the problem. I want him to threaten force, the Train Man to counter with something like "go ahead and kill me, you'll never find your way out in time" and Neo having to let him go. I'm fine with Jesus 2.0 not being able to cruise through obstacles. I want the reasons he can't to make sense given what has been established. If I remember correctly the Train Man actually has a line of dialogue about him making the rules when one of the major narrative arcs of the first film was fuck the rules. It damn near beats you over the head with it.

Arbitrary said:

Those are just bare bones ingredients though. Just because you are lifting some themes doesn't mean you also lift the shit that contradicts what you've already put on the screen. Charon's going to eat your lunch if you try and kick him off his boat. Fine. The Train Man isn't Charon. He's a computer program in a simulation taking a gigantic shit on our Jesus allegory in a film series that has all its own baggage already.

It's like in a video game where you go jump someone you aren't supposed to fight and get death touched.

And I don't want Neo to punch his way out of the problem. I want him to threaten force, the Train Man to counter with something like "go ahead and kill me, you'll never find your way out in time" and Neo having to let him go. I'm fine with Jesus 2.0 not being able to cruise through obstacles. I want the reasons he can't to make sense given what has been established. If I remember correctly the Train Man actually has a line of dialogue about him making the rules when one of the major narrative arcs of the first film was fuck the rules. It damn near beats you over the head with it.

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That's exactly what happens. Neo threatens "I don't want to hurt you." Train Man pummels him.

It later shows Neo trying to "think" his way out of Limbo. And yes, fuck the rules, which is why, given enough time, Neo would have gotten out of there on his own. But as it's been stated numerous times, this isn't the Matrix. He can't just walk in and be godmode from the start.

The Edge said:

That's exactly what happens. Neo threatens "I don't want to have to hurt you." Train Man pummels him.

It later shows Neo trying to "think" his way out of Limbo. And yes, fuck the rules, which is why, given enough time, Neo would have gotten out of there on his own. But as it's been stated numerous times, this isn't the Matrix. He can't just walk in and be godmode from the start.

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No, it isn't exactly what happens. Did you really even read my post that you quoted? He tries to use force and straight up gets pinned clean 1 2 3 by The Train Man. The Train Man is somehow stronger than him. Why?

"I built this place. Down here I make the rules."

Oh, you make the RULES? We know from the first movie that the rules of the Matrix are no different than the rules of any computer system. Some of them can be bent and others can be broken. Except in the Train Man pocket's dimension. The powers of The One extend beyond the Matrix except they don't extend into the Train Man's pocket dimension. Go watch that first movie again and take a drink every time a character starts going on and on about the rules. Smith has a huge monologue about rules. Rules and the decision to follow or not follow them is a major thematic element in the franchise.

And again, I don't have a problem with Neo not being able to punch his way out. I have a problem with Jesus 2.0 getting jobbed out by a rogue AI and the only explanation being a couple throwaway lines that try and handwave why he's weaker than a single rogue program AND those throwaway lines are contradicted by their own entire first fucking movie.

Also Neo never gets his heat back. The Train Man is 1 - 0 versus Jesus 2.0 with Jesus 2.0 having jobbed clean to him on pay per view.

The philosophy has always been the driving force. People that try to science it too much are barking up the wrong tree.

Remember, this is a story with a computer program that has psychic abilities and can predict the future in the Oracle. Where's the nerdrage over that?

Arbitrary said:

No, it isn't exactly what happens. Did you really even read my post that you quoted? He tries to use force and straight up gets pinned clean 1 2 3 by The Train Man. The Train Man is somehow stronger than him. Why?

"I built this place. Down here I make the rules."

Oh, you make the RULES? We know from the first movie that the rules of the Matrix are no different than the rules of any computer system. Some of them can be bent and others can be broken. Except in the Train Man pocket's dimension. The powers of The One extend beyond the Matrix except they don't extend into the Train Man's pocket dimension. Go watch that first movie again and take a drink every time a character starts going on and on about the rules. Smith has a huge monologue about rules. Rules and the decision to follow or not follow them is a major thematic element in the franchise.

And again, I don't have a problem with Neo not being able to punch his way out. I have a problem with Jesus 2.0 getting jobbed out by a rogue AI and the only explanation being a couple throwaway lines that try and handwave why he's weaker than a single rogue program AND those throwaway lines are contradicted by their own entire first fucking movie.

Also Neo never gets his heat back. The Train Man is 1 - 0 versus Jesus 2.0 with Jesus 2.0 having jobbed clean to him on pay per view.

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Show me where Neo uses force? I posted a video to help you.

Again, this isn't the Matrix. You're hung up about what was said about something entirely different.

Wait, so that's what you're going with now? You're just throwing in the towel and making an entirely different argument and calling me out for nerding when you are also super nerding with me?

Feanor's argument is the best. If you start trouble on Charon's boat it doesn't matter who you are Charon will fuck your shit up. The Train Man is an analogue to that kind of character.

Your argument sucks.

That first reply came before I saw yours. I just replied to yours. Watch the video dude.

The Edge said:

Again, this isn't the Matrix. You're hung up about what was said about something entirely different.

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I'm hung up on lazy writing and throwaway lines that contradict major thematic elements of the franchise and I'm fine being hung up on those things.

Arbitrary said:

Wait, so that's what you're going with now? You're just throwing in the towel and making an entirely different argument and calling me out for nerding when you are also super nerding with me?

Feanor's argument is the best. If you start trouble on Charon's boat it doesn't matter who you are Charon will fuck your shit up. The Train Man is an analogue to that kind of character.

Your argument sucks.

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Yeah it's fine if you don't like it and if you reckon it contrived, but the reason the Trainman beats the shit out of emo Ted is quite simple. First off he's consistent with the ferryman figure (Greek Charon, Norse Harbardr Greybeard, etc). The Mobil Ave station is separate from the matrix. He is the os developer of his little vr subway station. Mobil is an anagram for limbo by the by. In the wise words of Theoden King, Neo has no power here.

It was sloppily written and intentionally vague, and most certainly contrived.

The reason Neo's powers only work on machines in the 'real world' and he can't deal with train man's rules is because 'The One' is just another system of control. He can do whatever he wants in the inner matrix, his ability to affect the outer matrix was just a bug that was introduced into the OS of the outer matrix when Smith escaped the inner matrix.

I'll have my revenge on all of you when they reboot the franchise with Jaden Smith as a young Morpheus.

LOOK ON MY WORKS YE MIGHTY AND DESPAIR SOMETHING SOMETHING PARADISE LOST

There, I too can be a screenwriter in over his head.

Also, the oracle isn't precognitive, she just has a really long memory. All this has happened before and it will happen again.

Twilight Sparkle said:

Also, the oracle isn't precognitive, she just has a really long memory. All this has happened before and it will happen again.

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Dude....c'mon now.....

Her name is the Oracle

The Merovingian wants "the eyes of the Oracle" because she can see the future

Smith copies onto her and is given her precognitive abilities

The stuff with Smith NEVER happened before so you can't fall back on the excuse of "she's seen it all before."

Not even gonna waste time posting all the prophetic comments

The Edge said:

The philosophy has always been the driving force. People that try to science it too much are barking up the wrong tree.

Remember, this is a story with a computer program that has psychic abilities and can predict the future in the Oracle. Where's the nerdrage over that?

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it wasnt psychic abilities when they knew through the programming who was normal and who was "the one". might as well have had a super mario brothers star over his head.

Chukzombi said:

it wasnt psychic abilities when they knew through the programming who was normal and who was "the one". might as well have had a super mario brothers star over his head.

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I don't see anyone claiming otherwise

The Edge said:

I don't see anyone claiming otherwise

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you didnt just say the computer program was psychic?