The Matrix reboot/remake

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Xarpolis

Life's a Dream
14,643
16,318
Lit,

From reading the Politics thread as well as this (and countless others), I would like to give you the honorary title of Poster of the Year. I don't have the ability to do so, but you've earned it anyway.
Hell, maybe even Poster of the Decade 2010-2019. Not to be confused with the fake award that didn't exist, Artist of the Millennium, that Michael Jackson thought he won because Britney said she thought he might as well be.

 
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Sterling

El Presidente
13,092
8,067
If Creed is more indicative of what we could expect of new life being breathed into old franchises via MBJ than F4 was then sign me up for a few more. That movie was fantastic.
Yeah Creed was a solid movie.
 
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iannis

Musty Nester
31,351
17,656
Without the Wachowski's this will just be unoriginal, glorified fan fiction like The Force Awakens. You can't take away the original creative minds and expect to recapture the greatness, no matter how much you copy/pasta.

Well, Kinda.

The original is just a bog standard hero's journey. Just like Star Wars. Where the brothers started to get "creative" was in 2 and 3... and you see how poorly those were received when compared to the original.

What made the Matrix special wasn't the plot or the script. "Woah. I know kung-fu!". It was partially setting and more importantly aesthetic. What you got in the lobby fight scene and the popular introduction of bullet-time and the begining of a heavy reliance on seamlessly integrated CGI. All of those are part of the movie, and they make it a good movie, but none of them have very much to do with the story. For the story they're extraneous. It could be done another way and it would be no better or no worse, just different. But for the movie all of that is really important.

Dark City is a better story, but The Matrix is a better movie.

When the two of them started to move into stories instead of movies you can see the quality of their work significantly impacted. Those two can make one HELL of a movie... they can make a passable story. But it's really not their strength.
 
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Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,965
214,246
So ofc tonight I left I the Matrix Reloaded on TV while foruming now thx to this thread. It's actually not such a terrible movie if you cut out some bits.

The rave orgy obviously
Upgrayydes fight felt forced
The council/head commander bullshit felt forced

I sort of did like the Zion lore and the remaining human tech/mechas
The idea of rogue software trying to "survive" is stil neat
I still like the Merovingian crew
Agent Smith fight still pretty amusing. I noticed they used a bowling pins crashing sound during this scene of knocked down Smiths. (worf)
Highway scene still legit
The albino twins are cheesy but formidable
The architect bit is still a little snoozy, though he speaks how I think a calculating machine would talk like


/nerd rant
the bowling pin sound effect was money, cracks me up every time and its a cue to the audience to not take this shit so seriously. the highway scene may be the greatest car chase in movie history. possibly better than the Blues Brother.

possibly

re: @Lithose yeah dude, we had that discussion and we all that that was the way they were going. i would love to know what happened between the two movies as i think i read somewhere they filmed both at the same time.
 
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LulzSect

Well-Known Memer
<Banned>
2,714
3,282
Was just going to emphasize the same sentiment about the highway sequence!

It's surprisingly amazing still.

Still love the Sephiroth homage when Morpheus dispatches the white Obama-son twins.

:smuggly:
 
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Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
28,912
79,252
The highway action sequence in Reloaded was cool but it required removing Neo from the board so the other characters could do something and then he still saves the day in the end. They just had no idea how to write Neo after he had all the powers of The One. He has to flee from Smith but he's too powerful for an action scene later on so we have to magic him away but then he's too weak to do anything about the Train Man's pocket dimension. The powers of The One extend beyond the Matrix but not in that pocket dimension. The rules of the Matrix are no different than the rules of any computer system except for the pocket dimension. The rules are rock solid there.

It's just fucking all over the fucking shop.
 
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Feanor

Karazhan Raider
7,766
35,304
I posted in the original revolutions thread that Reloaded wasn't good, but if Revolutions had gone another way, within the series Reloaded would have been great. There is a scene in Reloaded where the council leader was talking to Neo about control, and reality and machines. Neo is hating on the machines and the old dude tells him "What of those machines that reprocess our sewage--without them we'd die. We rely on machines every day."...To which Neo's answer is "we can smash them, we're in control". The guy kind of rolls his eyes a little and sighs at how humans equate violence with control.

Right at that point, I figured the story was going to head in a specific direction. I thought the Council were all machines, and Zion was actually a refuge for people who were rejecting the Matrix code, a place to rehabilitate them and give them what they needed (More conflict). I figured we'd see by the end of the movie that Neo was simply in another level of the Matrix (And sure enough, by the end, we see him take out the machines in the real world. So it was confirmed for me, but then Revolutions came out and didn't explain it at all.)

Anyway, I was hoping it would be revealed that mankind built the machines and created a utopia. The machines were loyal and worked tirelessly for man, their primary directive was to protect and defend humanity, and then obey orders. However, as mankind began expanding into space, a rift formed, and humans began ripping themselves apart through an ever increasing escalation of a great war. We eventually tasked the machines into the war, changing their programing to allow them to kill hostile humans--but the machines were sentient, and their original programming made it difficult for them to accept the new programing. Anyway, the machines realize humans will destroy themselves if this continues, and so they rise up--a classic Asimov paradox.

However, instead of locking humans up and oppressing them, the machines worked tirelessly to ensure humanity was happy. First they built a paradise-like Matrix, but humans were unhappy, so they tore it down. Then they built the Matrix to try and create a space for humanity that could allow them to satisfy their violent urges without any actual risk. When you die in the Matrix, you're reset and start over--it's like a perpetual MMO. Neo and the others needed something more, so the machines made themselves the ultimate conflict, and 'played' with their masters to give them a purpose. In the end, Neo would learn this--he'd realize there was no way to get energy from humans; that in fact the Machines devoted mass amounts of energy ensuring humanity was well cared for. The machines kept talking about 'purpose' and how machines had to have a 'purpose' because they learned that from humans, that's why humans are so conflict driven, they need purpose. The machines created a world where their own purpose was being the perfect servant for humanity, giving humans everything they needed.

In essence the machines were God, they created world for man exactly how man needed it, because the hidden part of the story is man created God. That is why God can exist and be benevolent and still allow suffering, because in that final layer of reality, really, he's ensuring no one gets hurt, and mankind survives.
That was a pretty good scene.

Well, Kinda.

The original is just a bog standard hero's journey. Just like Star Wars. Where the brothers started to get "creative" was in 2 and 3... and you see how poorly those were received when compared to the original.

What made the Matrix special wasn't the plot or the script. "Woah. I know kung-fu!". It was partially setting and more importantly aesthetic. What you got in the lobby fight scene and the popular introduction of bullet-time and the begining of a heavy reliance on seamlessly integrated CGI. All of those are part of the movie, and they make it a good movie, but none of them have very much to do with the story. For the story they're extraneous. It could be done another way and it would be no better or no worse, just different. But for the movie all of that is really important.

Dark City is a better story, but The Matrix is a better movie.

When the two of them started to move into stories instead of movies you can see the quality of their work significantly impacted. Those two can make one HELL of a movie... they can make a passable story. But it's really not their strength.
Last time I wacthed the Matrix I was surprised how simple it was. Also how good it looked for its budget.

the bowling pin sound effect was money, cracks me up every time and its a cue to the audience to not take this shit so seriously. the highway scene may be the greatest car chase in movie history. possibly better than the Blues Brother.

possibly

re: @Lithose yeah dude, we had that discussion and we all that that was the way they were going. i would love to know what happened between the two movies as i think i read somewhere they filmed both at the same time.
There's plenty of comedic moments in the Matrix as in Star Wars. Very important when dealing with mythological shit, techno music and samurais.

Another good scene due to its simplicity. Smith, after killing the Oracle, knows he has seen this before but can't recall where. He is afaird. Neo is not.
 

The Edge

Lord Nagafen Raider
763
262
The highway action sequence in Reloaded was cool but it required removing Neo from the board so the other characters could do something and then he still saves the day in the end. They just had no idea how to write Neo after he had all the powers of The One. He has to flee from Smith but he's too powerful for an action scene later on so we have to magic him away but then he's too weak to do anything about the Train Man's pocket dimension. The powers of The One extend beyond the Matrix but not in that pocket dimension. The rules of the Matrix are no different than the rules of any computer system except for the pocket dimension. The rules are rock solid there.

It's just fucking all over the fucking shop.

The "pocket dimension", aka Limbo, was made by the Train man. It had a different set of rules. Neo would have gotten out on his own eventually. You saw him working through the process when he was getting glimpses of the machine city. Nothing sloppy about it.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
28,912
79,252
The "pocket dimension", aka Limbo, was made by the Train man. It had a different set of rules. Neo would have gotten out on his own eventually. You saw him working through the process when he was getting glimpses of the machine city. Nothing sloppy about it.

Rules? RULES?

The rules of the Train Man's pocket dimension are no different than the rules of ANY computer system. Some of them can be bent. Others can be broken. Except not here for some reason.

The power of The One extends beyond The Matrix. He psychically fries squids in the desert of the real. Except not here for some reason.

Neo gets punched super hard by the Train Man, looks shocked, is later rescued. It shouldn't matter whatever code the Train Man was running because Neo is transcendent. The Train Man had a reality warper tier power level with no explanation and he never shows up again after Neo is rescued. He jobs out our messiah and then goes away. Well fuck, I sure hope Smith never got to him because with his powers of plot convenience Smith would have been unstoppable.
 

The Edge

Lord Nagafen Raider
763
262
Reloaded takes place roughly 6 months after the original Matrix. Neo didn't realize he could manipulate machines in the real world until the end of Reloaded. Just because he had an awakening at the end of the original, doesn't mean he immediately knows everything. It's all about the process. Limbo was another world he was tossed into. It doesn't matter how "transcendent" he was in the Matrix, he's in a different world now. No doubt he would have awoken in that place too, and it probably wouldn't have taken 6 months, but there was still a learning curve. This stuff is all explained. You either accept it, or you don't, but don't try to call the writers lazy. It's all there. Perhaps the viewer needs to pay better attention, or problem solve with the given info.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
28,912
79,252
No, it's lazy writing and the two sequels are full of it because they don't really know what to do with their Jesus allegory once he goes Super Saiyan.

Jesus 2.0 is literally jobbed out by a rogue A.I. and doesn't even get his heat back later.
 
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TrollfaceDeux

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Bronze Donator>
19,577
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Reloaded takes place roughly 6 months after the original Matrix. Neo didn't realize he could manipulate machines in the real world until the end of Reloaded. Just because he had an awakening at the end of the original, doesn't mean he immediately knows everything. It's all about the process. Limbo was another world he was tossed into. It doesn't matter how "transcendent" he was in the Matrix, he's in a different world now. No doubt he would have awoken in that place too, and it probably wouldn't have taken 6 months, but there was still a learning curve. This stuff is all explained. You either accept it, or you don't, but don't try to call the writers lazy. It's all there. Perhaps the viewer needs to pay better attention, or problem solve with the given info.
Awaken how. Neo is the one because he is designed to equate out the chaotic designs of matrix. A perpetual harmony to wipe both zion and matrix every.once in a while as a refresh.

His sole purpose and mathmatical coding was strictly mental design ergo programming only.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
28,912
79,252
Boy I wish they had gone with their earlier script rather than all of the philosophic word salad and generic religious symbolism.
 

Binks

Golden Knight of the Realm
159
153
I liked moments of the religious allusions in the first one. It's like a Highlights magazine.
 

Rengak

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,879
2,761
No, it's lazy writing and the two sequels are full of it because they don't really know what to do with their Jesus allegory once he goes Super Saiyan.

Jesus 2.0 is literally jobbed out by a rogue A.I. and doesn't even get his heat back later.

The damn IWC always wants the heels to win.
 

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
5,041
11,878
I posted in the original revolutions thread that Reloaded wasn't good, but if Revolutions had gone another way, within the series Reloaded would have been great. There is a scene in Reloaded where the council leader was talking to Neo about control, and reality and machines. Neo is hating on the machines and the old dude tells him "What of those machines that reprocess our sewage--without them we'd die. We rely on machines every day."...To which Neo's answer is "we can smash them, we're in control". The guy kind of rolls his eyes a little and sighs at how humans equate violence with control.

Right at that point, I figured the story was going to head in a specific direction. I thought the Council were all machines, and Zion was actually a refuge for people who were rejecting the Matrix code, a place to rehabilitate them and give them what they needed (More conflict). I figured we'd see by the end of the movie that Neo was simply in another level of the Matrix (And sure enough, by the end, we see him take out the machines in the real world. So it was confirmed for me, but then Revolutions came out and didn't explain it at all.)

Anyway, I was hoping it would be revealed that mankind built the machines and created a utopia. The machines were loyal and worked tirelessly for man, their primary directive was to protect and defend humanity, and then obey orders. However, as mankind began expanding into space, a rift formed, and humans began ripping themselves apart through an ever increasing escalation of a great war. We eventually tasked the machines into the war, changing their programing to allow them to kill hostile humans--but the machines were sentient, and their original programming made it difficult for them to accept the new programing. Anyway, the machines realize humans will destroy themselves if this continues, and so they rise up--a classic Asmonov paradox.

However, instead of locking humans up and oppressing them, the machines worked tirelessly to ensure humanity was happy. First they built a paradise-like Matrix, but humans were unhappy, so they tore it down. Then they built the Matrix to try and create a space for humanity that could allow them to satisfy their violent urges without any actual risk. When you die in the Matrix, you're reset and start over--it's like a perpetual MMO. Neo and the others needed something more, so the machines made themselves the ultimate conflict, and 'played' with their masters to give them a purpose. In the end, Neo would learn this--he'd realize there was no way to get energy from humans; that in fact the Machines devoted mass amounts of energy ensuring humanity was well cared for. The machines kept talking about 'purpose' and how machines had to have a 'purpose' because they learned that from humans, that's why humans are so conflict driven, they need purpose. The machines created a world where their own purpose was being the perfect servant for humanity, giving humans everything they needed.

In essence the machines were God, they created world for man exactly how man needed it, because the hidden part of the story is man created God. That is why God can exist and be benevolent and still allow suffering, because in that final layer of reality, really, he's ensuring no one gets hurt, and mankind survives.

As I said a long time ago....fuck, that is such a better story than what we got. I would watch those movies a whole lot.
 

Lunis

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,283
1,516
It was just lazy writing in the 2 sequels. People liked agent Smith, so let's have 1,000 of him! The sentinels were cool, lets have a million of them! Throw in the stupid rave/dance in Zion and pepper on some pseudo-hip philosophy for good measure. It was nauseating.
 
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