fanaskin
Well known agitator
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and then you come to "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
The NSA watches you poop.
- Thread starter Beef Supreme_sl
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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They decided to spy on everyone, it's a choice, how can we "let them do it" without the rulers deciding what they wanted to do.We let them(argueable, we(the public) were deceived at every turn for obvious reasons(watched rats behave differently than when they think they aren't being watched)) go through with the choice of spending billions of dollars and all this effort to create the apparatus of spying. That's a choice to do those things, it wasn't inevitable it was a choice.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Too bad Venezuela is going down the toilet - many a hot girl and nice beach there and the Andean region is stunningly beautiful. If Chavez and co. hadn't destroyed the economy would have been an awesome place to live in exile. Much better than Cuba or Ecuador.
Skanda
I'm Amod too!
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Dear Cuba, I know we've told you to eat shit for pretty much the last 50 years but if you could please....
We have actually been working on changing that and Cuba is smart enough to see that it would be in their best interest to deny him and by doing so 'Murica will owe them one. In fact it would be super interesting if Cuba told him to come on over and then handed him to us after a negotiation.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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That is some passive bullshit right there. Yeah bro, you just sit around and things happen to you. THEY DID IT! No, they didn't "do it." They said "we want to do it" And America collectively said "Meh, whatever." Accept some responsibility.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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yes I am saying we are a sham of a democracy, what actual power does the public have when both parties agree on something, there is nobody to vote out when both sides agree, or you are "throwing your vote away". it's kind of hard to exercise any power beyond whatever an opinion poll*or a vote(nullified when both sides agree) can do.
*debateable what that can achieve, constantly the will of the the elite is > the will of the public anyways, so what good does an opinion poll do besides gauge what mood the cattle are in.
*debateable what that can achieve, constantly the will of the the elite is > the will of the public anyways, so what good does an opinion poll do besides gauge what mood the cattle are in.
This is the power we have.http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/reelect.php
I love how you are saying voting is worthless!!
khalid
Unelected Mod
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You keep saying that "We did it", as if everyone complaining about it supported it at the time. You definitely seem to be brushing aside any privacy concerns because for whatever reason you think the very few privacy safeguards will be enough. You seem to think that just because it has been happening for 10 years, even though most of us had no idea of the significance, makes it no big deal.
Maybe it is just all apathy, but its hard to see how someone wouldn't think you were a supporter of it.
I mean, I agree with you that it isn't some conspiracy. I don't think anyone is violating any laws, they are just stretching everything to the limits. That to me doesn't make it a good thing.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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Well... we DID do it. The same republicans crying crocodile tears over Obama's police state are the same ones who were rolling their eyes at liberal objections when these laws were passed. Funny enough, those same uppity liberals seem largely content to roll with it now.
I don't think I have downplayed the privacy concerns either. I have said I don't take Snowden at his word on the more fantastical claims, and no one should.
If I sound apathetic that is probably because I am. This is old news at this point, and I just won't spend my life in an uproar. Imagine if your buddy came up to you last week telling you what an awful company SOE is and how they are intentionally blocking player progression.
BoldW
Molten Core Raider
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On the Snowden thing:
I think the administration has/is gone/going down the wrong path with him. What concerns me right now is all the intel he's supposedly walking around with, to other countries (I know Obama says his foreign policy has made friends of everyone, but let's be honest - foreign relations have stagnated and worse under this administration).
As of yet, Snowden has only released information proving the existence of the programs, and not any real details. If Obama really wants to have an open debate about this like he keeps saying (right before he goes into closed-door meetings about it), why not ask Snowden to come back? Slap him on the wrist with one or two years in prison, full conjugal visits for his little "ballerina" stripper GF, we get the actual sensitive information back, and then we have an actual debate about what's going on. He can then go work for some indie site on the blogosphere or something. Instead, it's a full out burn-him-to-the-ground atmosphere.
This would not only help public image of the administration but would keep all the info he has out of other countries' hands.
Unless, of course, there is something to hide. That is the government line tous, anyway. Hey, if you have nothing to hide, then it's all good, right? Honestly, to me, this must be what's going on. But instead he's being charged under the Espionage Act and trying to be discredited by this administration and much of the press using the same tired old shit - He's a high school drop-out, on meds, etc. They attack anything but the actual information he's putting out.
And before you go all out on the He Broke The Law And Has To Pay, The Traitor, I think everyone here damn well knows that that only applies to normal Americans and has been, is being, and will continue to be subject to who you know and what you know. Legislators and Judges and their ilk get away with all sorts of shit that normal Americans do not, and this would be in the guise of National Security, so how can you argue that?
.......
And if "WE" did it, we should definitely be allowed to undo it. That doesn't seem like much of an option atm.
I think the administration has/is gone/going down the wrong path with him. What concerns me right now is all the intel he's supposedly walking around with, to other countries (I know Obama says his foreign policy has made friends of everyone, but let's be honest - foreign relations have stagnated and worse under this administration).
As of yet, Snowden has only released information proving the existence of the programs, and not any real details. If Obama really wants to have an open debate about this like he keeps saying (right before he goes into closed-door meetings about it), why not ask Snowden to come back? Slap him on the wrist with one or two years in prison, full conjugal visits for his little "ballerina" stripper GF, we get the actual sensitive information back, and then we have an actual debate about what's going on. He can then go work for some indie site on the blogosphere or something. Instead, it's a full out burn-him-to-the-ground atmosphere.
This would not only help public image of the administration but would keep all the info he has out of other countries' hands.
Unless, of course, there is something to hide. That is the government line tous, anyway. Hey, if you have nothing to hide, then it's all good, right? Honestly, to me, this must be what's going on. But instead he's being charged under the Espionage Act and trying to be discredited by this administration and much of the press using the same tired old shit - He's a high school drop-out, on meds, etc. They attack anything but the actual information he's putting out.
And before you go all out on the He Broke The Law And Has To Pay, The Traitor, I think everyone here damn well knows that that only applies to normal Americans and has been, is being, and will continue to be subject to who you know and what you know. Legislators and Judges and their ilk get away with all sorts of shit that normal Americans do not, and this would be in the guise of National Security, so how can you argue that?
.......
And if "WE" did it, we should definitely be allowed to undo it. That doesn't seem like much of an option atm.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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false analogy you can stop subscribing to soe, you can't stop subscribing to the usa, this is the fallacy of equating market capitalism and democracy.
also
"I just won't spend my life in an uproar. "
what about our children, seriously, i've had 2 co workers say the same thing to me, "won't happen in my lifetime" but government lives beyond our lives to the next generation and so on
also
"I just won't spend my life in an uproar. "
what about our children, seriously, i've had 2 co workers say the same thing to me, "won't happen in my lifetime" but government lives beyond our lives to the next generation and so on
BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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It's pointless to vote people out if the next guy is just going to do the same thing. Republican vs. Democrat is a fake option, and they make the rules so they can ensure no third party can get traction. On top of that, you can't really blame the voters for this when every aspect of it is classified. Even members of congress who are not on the intelligence committee are not allowed to know about this stuff, so you guys talking about your security clearance are quite a joke.
BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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What would Snowden's motivation to lie about this be? He had a great life, a pretty hot girlfriend, was making lots of money, etc. He has given up everything he has to bring this story to light and he will be either living on the run or in prison for a long time now. Also,Sen. Ron Wyden has been trying to let people know about thisfor a couple years now without violating his own security clearance and his slot on the intelligence committee.
Ron Wyden in 2011_sl said:
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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How did we know when it was classified? Shit like the patriot act yeah, but prism was in a black hole and god only knows what else.
Also Obama campaigned on repealing the patriot act, look where e are now.
Dyvim
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Brutul i typed the exact question like 2 pages back, general consenus by the in the knows with military clearance is:
He just doing it to see the world, be popstar famous and live his life on internet supporters big money.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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That's silly. Two huge reasons why the administration absolutely has to nail him now. The first is, obviously, the guy committed a huge federal crime that they define as having caused "exceptionally grave damage" to national security by releasing TS information. Second, there are 5 million other people with clearances. If Snowden doesn't get absolutely pounded that sends a message to them that the oaths they took are now optional, all they have to do is disagree on principle with something and release is just ok.
We do have the option to undo it. Vote out incumbents. Do it.