The Official Guitar Thread
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Noodleface
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I guess it's preference but I don't think you'd see many people play that sweep in the way mentioned by Alex.
Sweeping is one of the 7 wonders of the world according to guitarists. Some can do it, but most can't. You can read up about sweeping to your heart's content, but it will never help. It just has to click one day. I seriously spent years so confused at how some could sweep so gracefully, yet mine sounded like a cat dying of aids in the back alley.
It was one of those things that one day just clicked for me. I'm by no means perfect at sweeping, but I feel pretty confident in my ability now. I think what truly enlightened me was when I took a step back, slowed down my approach, and really broke down what I was playing.
For some advice, I can offer a little. A "bar" sweep will be difficult if this is your first foray into sweep picking. It's not difficult per se, but it's an added element that will add to your confusion. I would suggest a 3-string arpeggio at first, because it's easier to understand the concept, something like:
You'll want to play each note and lift your finger slightly to mute the string, while moving your pick to the next string. Go slow at first with a good amount of distortion (won't hide your mistakes). Some players provide additional muting with their palm, this may help you at first. I mostly palm mute on the low strings, but occasionally you may do it on the high strings.
For your particular example, this is how I generally attack bar sweeps. Picture your ring finger as a teeter-totter, with the center of gravity being the middle of the strings you are sweeping. For two strings imagine somewhere in between the two, for three strings it would be the middle string, etc. You'll want to start by having one end of the finger down on the first note you'll play, and as you play pretend the other end of the finger needs to put the weight down and move like a teeter-totter. The result is your finger is rolling over the strings and muting the first few notes as you go. At the end just lift your finger slightly to mute the last note. I wouldn't actually put your hands in the chord position prior to playing notes, you actually want to play the notes as you go. The end result is you want it to sound like you individually alternately picked each note, but in reality you just swept across the strings in an arc and made the notes muted after a brief moment.
Good luck, it's a tough concept to get down.
Sweeping is one of the 7 wonders of the world according to guitarists. Some can do it, but most can't. You can read up about sweeping to your heart's content, but it will never help. It just has to click one day. I seriously spent years so confused at how some could sweep so gracefully, yet mine sounded like a cat dying of aids in the back alley.
It was one of those things that one day just clicked for me. I'm by no means perfect at sweeping, but I feel pretty confident in my ability now. I think what truly enlightened me was when I took a step back, slowed down my approach, and really broke down what I was playing.
For some advice, I can offer a little. A "bar" sweep will be difficult if this is your first foray into sweep picking. It's not difficult per se, but it's an added element that will add to your confusion. I would suggest a 3-string arpeggio at first, because it's easier to understand the concept, something like:
You'll want to play each note and lift your finger slightly to mute the string, while moving your pick to the next string. Go slow at first with a good amount of distortion (won't hide your mistakes). Some players provide additional muting with their palm, this may help you at first. I mostly palm mute on the low strings, but occasionally you may do it on the high strings.
For your particular example, this is how I generally attack bar sweeps. Picture your ring finger as a teeter-totter, with the center of gravity being the middle of the strings you are sweeping. For two strings imagine somewhere in between the two, for three strings it would be the middle string, etc. You'll want to start by having one end of the finger down on the first note you'll play, and as you play pretend the other end of the finger needs to put the weight down and move like a teeter-totter. The result is your finger is rolling over the strings and muting the first few notes as you go. At the end just lift your finger slightly to mute the last note. I wouldn't actually put your hands in the chord position prior to playing notes, you actually want to play the notes as you go. The end result is you want it to sound like you individually alternately picked each note, but in reality you just swept across the strings in an arc and made the notes muted after a brief moment.
Good luck, it's a tough concept to get down.
I can sweep alright and that is the general method I use Noodle. The issue with the problem I described was speed. I'm just not practiced with sweeping when my hands are already in the shape. But I think to execute the sweep as quickly as I am required I need to have my fingers already in place and pull those fingers off to mute similar to what Alex said. I still find the method you described more natural and I can usually get a better tone but I think having the ability to appregiate (apparently that isn't a word) the chord when I'm already fingering it is a skill I need to pick up.
I'm playing almost that exact pattern in this video here, around 1:30
http://youtu.be/sjhqnfglyxQ
Practice it slow as hell, with a metronome. I mean slow - gouge-your-eyes-out-fuck-you-i-hate-you-metronome slow, and then slowly build into it. You can move that pattern all over the place. Try this - the high note (14) is your pinky, the low note (11 on the high E) is your index finger, and for starters whatever you're comfortable with in the middle of the pattern. use my middle finger for the major sweep, ring if I'm playing minor.
E--14---11-----------11----14---
B-----------12---12--------------
G--------------11----------------
D---------------------------------
A---------------------------------
E---------------------------------
That shape is movable anywhere, and in that example it's a basic three string sweep that you can do over B major. To make it minor, just move the second note down a half step. Play it slowly and listen to the difference. The "cheating" way to think of it is that the middle note (in this case the 12th fret) is the key you're in.
E--14---10-----------10----14---
B-----------12---12--------------
G--------------11----------------
D---------------------------------
A---------------------------------
E---------------------------------
I am not the cleanest sweeper in the world, but I practice the hell out of it. Three strings I'm decent, 5/6 strings I can go up pretty cleanly but usually fall apart coming back down. :\ It's just one of those things you need to practice the shit out of.
Cool thanks 7th. So you also propose that I pretty much have to form the shape beforehand and take my fingers off the frets to mute as I go? I'm also much better sweeping the other way than your practice sweeps >_< I kind of forgot to practice sweeping from high to low.
Eventually, rolling your fingers through the shape will feel natural, just like fingering a G or C chord - which (at least for me, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) feels impossible when I was first starting out. You want to mute with the meat of your palm on your picking hand, so as you sweep the strings you're immediately dampening the note you just played.
There's really (imo, keeping in mind that I'm a mediocre sweeper at best) two techniques that you need to practice separately. First is the actual motion of your picking hand, so that you get the chick-chick-chick-chick-switch_directions-chick-chick-chick-chick of the pick hitting the strings down. Accurate fretting doesn't help at all if you aren't sweeping the strings themselves. Then there's the actual fingering the notes in time with your picking hand. I think getting smooth with the actual sweep motion is harder to master than the actual fretting of the notes.
Edit: Check out my buddy Sean's YT page, he's a monster sweeper and has a bunch of good tips for people starting out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiLYzTUSVUs
There's really (imo, keeping in mind that I'm a mediocre sweeper at best) two techniques that you need to practice separately. First is the actual motion of your picking hand, so that you get the chick-chick-chick-chick-switch_directions-chick-chick-chick-chick of the pick hitting the strings down. Accurate fretting doesn't help at all if you aren't sweeping the strings themselves. Then there's the actual fingering the notes in time with your picking hand. I think getting smooth with the actual sweep motion is harder to master than the actual fretting of the notes.
Edit: Check out my buddy Sean's YT page, he's a monster sweeper and has a bunch of good tips for people starting out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiLYzTUSVUs
You know what chord gave me a fuckton of trouble at first? Open B7.
Now I can do it fine, but at first it was horrible trying to cram my clumsy fingers into so little space.
Now I can do it fine, but at first it was horrible trying to cram my clumsy fingers into so little space.
Gamma Rays
Large sized member
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Been a lurker in the thread since the old days of FOH, always been good for tips and advice. I'm a casual guitar player, doing it for my own enjoyment really and not ever expecting to get into a band.
Anyway I'm currently using a Line6 spider III amp. It's been okay for what I've needed, as it was what I've used from the start. It has the processed effects, which can be appealing on the surface, but it often doesn't give a good sound. In fact sometimes you can get into a real ugly area. Whoever designed the effect settings way overdid it. If you go past the first 2 or 3 notches on the dial it's just ridiculous.
So I'm trying to work out a good practice amp to buy. I want to go for a proper tube amp, the Line6 has turned me off the processed sound idea. I live in an apartment so cannot be too loud. I had been thinking of perhaps a Marshall Class 5 combo. Checked Youtube clips and it seems to have a really good sound.
On the last page I saw a few posts about the Fender Vibro champ. Which got me checking the website for a local guitar shop, which has them, but I'm guessing there's a difference between the newly made ones and the genuine vintage ones shown last page.
Ideas? Options?
I welcome your suggestions.
Anyway I'm currently using a Line6 spider III amp. It's been okay for what I've needed, as it was what I've used from the start. It has the processed effects, which can be appealing on the surface, but it often doesn't give a good sound. In fact sometimes you can get into a real ugly area. Whoever designed the effect settings way overdid it. If you go past the first 2 or 3 notches on the dial it's just ridiculous.
So I'm trying to work out a good practice amp to buy. I want to go for a proper tube amp, the Line6 has turned me off the processed sound idea. I live in an apartment so cannot be too loud. I had been thinking of perhaps a Marshall Class 5 combo. Checked Youtube clips and it seems to have a really good sound.
On the last page I saw a few posts about the Fender Vibro champ. Which got me checking the website for a local guitar shop, which has them, but I'm guessing there's a difference between the newly made ones and the genuine vintage ones shown last page.
Ideas? Options?
I welcome your suggestions.
I was the one posting about the Vibro Champ. Mine's a vintage one ('74), and it sounds different than a new one would; however, I don't know that a new one would necessarily sound bad.
You could look into the Fender Blues Junior. It's what I traded in to get my Vibro Champ, and while to me it didn't necessarily have that vintage Fender sound, it was a really good little tube amp. 15 watts, so it can get loud, but it's manageable in an apartment. Plus it has a preamp gain so you can get some higher gain sound at lower volume levels, if that's your thing.
You could also look into something that has an attenuator, which basically reduces the wattage of a tube amp on the fly, so you can get the sound of an overdriven tube at lower volume levels.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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I'm gonna be that dude that says even if you get an attenuater, a tube amp may be a bit much for an apartment. Even 5 watts can be pretty loud. The glory of tube amps is when you push them really loud and make the tubes sing.
Yep. If you want an amp that sounds good at very low volumes, solid state or a modeler is the best option. If you really want a tube amp, a lot of people like the Blackstar HT-5. (Though it's not my cup of tea, but I go for modern metal tones.)
I have a THD on my Mark V. It works, but even with 16db of attenuation the amp sounds like shit without a little volume thrown at it. Practicing can be monotonous enough, so when I do it I like it to be as quiet as possible, heh.
Alex
Still a Music Elitist
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TheOrange Tiny Terroris a combo that sounds great at lower volumes. Mainly because it's switchable from 15 watts to 7. You'd go for the 7 watt setting.
They still sound better than a solid state at lower levels, in my opinion. (I'm still new, but my ears aren't)
The Blues Junior was a little loud for the apartment. The Vibro Champ is just about right. It's at 6 watts.
Gamma Rays
Large sized member
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Cheers for the responses guys!!
One of my issues is that I don't have any guys I know (irl) who are guitarists that I can do something like go over to their house and check their gear. Which is why I put the question here.
I've got to do some research into some of the amps you've listed.
And then once I've got a few 'possibles' set in my mind, I'll probably keep an eye on Ebay in the hope of scoring one being sold 2nd hand.
Thanks again.
One of my issues is that I don't have any guys I know (irl) who are guitarists that I can do something like go over to their house and check their gear. Which is why I put the question here.
I've got to do some research into some of the amps you've listed.
And then once I've got a few 'possibles' set in my mind, I'll probably keep an eye on Ebay in the hope of scoring one being sold 2nd hand.
Thanks again.
Tone is the most subjective thing ever. If you're going for anything close to a metal tone, I disagree. If it's light gain crunch/blues, I do agree to a point. Solid state stuff has come a long, long way since the old days of tubes dominating everything.
I play boring ass modern metal and shred, so for me a tube amp down low is a lifeless pile of fizz.
Yeah. I'm not a metal guy. I can see how a good solid state would be good for metal stuff at lower volume.
Now praise my Kalamazoo.
Now praise my Kalamazoo.
Also, for home/practice, the Pod HD stuff is light years head of the old Line 6 spiders/pod XTs. You can get an HD500/HD Pro and a set of studio monitors and get some pretty solid tones and a lot of volume out of that setup, with the extra bonus of being able to record with it. This is just camera audio, but this is the HD when I had it, running through a set of monitors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvtPiMYicCg
Even though I have a Mark V and a 4x12, I also have an Axe-Fx II, and I'd say 3/4 of my actual playing/jamming and 100% of my practicing is the Fractal through monitors. It's worth looking into if you're shopping around. If you just want to keep it simple, a combo is the way to go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvtPiMYicCg
Even though I have a Mark V and a 4x12, I also have an Axe-Fx II, and I'd say 3/4 of my actual playing/jamming and 100% of my practicing is the Fractal through monitors. It's worth looking into if you're shopping around. If you just want to keep it simple, a combo is the way to go.