The Penguin

so did he kill vic because he knew too much, or because he knew vic would be a "weakness" that others could exploit, like his mom? I lean towards the latter. Obviously its a mix of both but I think the intent is to show that end of the day the Penguin is a true sociopath who imitates feelings but doesn't really have any, other than being possessive of his mom.

but I could also see the interpretation that Oz isn't really that psycho, and he does have feelings and saw Vic as a true friend but puts practicality over feelings. He feels really, really bad about killing Vic but does it because he knows too much about Oz, especially his mom who is his only vulnerable point that he won't give up.

Its a good ethical/moral aspect in the show that feels so missing from TV nowadays, where everything is black and white, good vs bad.

its interesting there is a third batman movie, maybe batman 2 doesn't use Penguin as a main villain. I think B2 is mostly Court of Owls, which was also big in the recent Gotham Knights video game

It's obviously because they try to make him look like a sociopath/psychopath, but those guys are intelligent enough to know you need useful people around. No one no matter how callous would eliminate their top henchman just because feelings. Especially someone who has no feelings anyway! It was just a dumb maguffin to make him seem more evil.

This all happened on the tail end of Vic abandoning Penguin, at what should have been a high point. Where that whole situation could have possibly been avoided if he was just "there" to begin with. Which not only signaled a lack of loyalty to the penguin himself, but that he was unconfident in his path, and lack luster at best with his duties. I mean, that whole backstory of Vic puppy dogging for that bitch has to mean something... in this story, right? Definitely not top henchman, either. This kid got screentime, definitely. But in the grand scheme of shit going down? Laughable.

Lets not forget that if Penguin went into politics, he cant have someone with such a lack of loyalty that could undermine his career goal. I personally feel this is the paramount issue - but I also didnt care for the kid the entire show, either.

Phazael said:

In my view, Vic sealed his own fate when he managed to convince all the 2nd in commands to off their bosses. Yeah it helped the Penguin win, but it also demonstrated that he could pose a threat to him down the road, especially since Oz clearly had a weak spot where Vic was concerned. Thing with the Penguin is his ruthlessness and it was the practical choice. On an emotional level, he did not want to kill Vic, but on a practical level he had no choice to secure his win.

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Vic was too independent with his own aspirations. Basically, a potential as a future rival when all Penguin wanted was a lackey to do his dirty work.

He was also cleaning up ties to his criminal background in an attempt to go to the legit side of things in city hall. He specifically said, "Where I'm going next, you can't follow."

He didn't want people around him that could be traced back to the underworld.

spronk said:

so did he kill vic because he knew too much, or because he knew vic would be a "weakness" that others could exploit, like his mom? I lean towards the latter. Obviously its a mix of both but I think the intent is to show that end of the day the Penguin is a true sociopath who imitates feelings but doesn't really have any, other than being possessive of his mom.

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You can never tell for sure, given Penguin was a compulsive liar who wasn't even honest with himself, but the weakness explanation is what he said.

It's plausible - he *just* got done being fucked over by family being held hostage - I took that as the kid saying that he was family, and the Penguin responding with 'Fuck' because he thought about it and decided he was right.

The other explanation was that was because he had already decided to kill him and that made it harder, but Penguin hadn't shown any guilt over anything other than his mother previously, so that seems less likely.

Bald Brah said:

It's obviously because they try to make him look like a sociopath/psychopath, but those guys are intelligent enough to know you need useful people around. No one no matter how callous would eliminate their top henchman just because feelings. Especially someone who has no feelings anyway! It was just a dumb maguffin to make him seem more evil.

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Horrible take. We've seen people in power constantly throw their number 2 under the bus

Gotta love when people try to rationalize comic book villains.

Dude literally killed his own brothers.

There is also the fact that Oz used the number two's of every gang organization to take out the number ones, so Vic being his number two is an obvious problem for him in the future.

It does make the whole criminal enterprise of theirs an issue though in a sort of Sith "rule of 2" way, how the fuck are you really gonna function if you have to side eye every person under you with any potential of being capable and smart. If you only hire people dumber than you, you get into the DEI problem of your crime family getting dumber and dumber every year and you have to make every single big decision and make sure your lt's aren't making mistakes. If you hire good people they will start gunning for you quickly and you won't be able to catch every move they are making.

Falconis/Maroni's "solved" that problem by using family as the top leadership but that isn't true for these other gangs.

spronk said:

There is also the fact that Oz used the number two's of every gang organization to take out the number ones, so Vic being his number two is an obvious problem for him in the future.

It does make the whole criminal enterprise of theirs an issue though in a sort of Sith "rule of 2" way, how the fuck are you really gonna function if you have to side eye every person under you with any potential of being capable and smart. If you only hire people dumber than you, you get into the DEI problem of your crime family getting dumber and dumber every year and you have to make every single big decision and make sure your lt's aren't making mistakes. If you hire good people they will start gunning for you quickly and you won't be able to catch every move they are making.

Falconis/Maroni's "solved" that problem by using family as the top leadership but that isn't true for these other gangs.

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You can be smart and competent without having plans of going independent or bumping off the #1. There is a scene in Donny Brasco where Sonny Black(?) explains how not so great it was to be a boss and just being a soldier/earner was much easier.