The Zionists are whining thread

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Jais

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Chris_sl said:
Is it Hamas destroying UN Schools? Aren't we on about 3 bombed now? It's clear to me that Israel is destroying civilian infrastructure to cut Hamas support.

Both sides are doing this shit.
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You mean the three UN schools that were used as rocket caches?
 
khalid

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Look, you will always be able to find a few Israeli's who are either motivated by religion or just simply exasperated by decades of terrorism into saying fucked up shit. The difference is, this stuff isn't codified into their constitution. It isn't trumpeted on every kids television show to their kids. When someone says it in public, they are vilified by their own people. We have already seen examples of that in this thread, where Fanaskin will link to some editorial, try and spin it as proof all Israeli's are horrible, just to find out that the article was immediately taken down.

Contrast this to the Palestinians. You have genocidal intentions explicitly stated all over the founding documents of groups like Hamas. When horrific shit happens, like a suicide bombing or even stuff like 9/11, you have them cheering in the streets.


The moral gap is enormous.One side uses human shields, the other side is deterred by them.
 
Araysar

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khalid_sl said:
Look, you will always be able to find a few Israeli's who are either motivated by religion or just simply exasperated by decades of terrorism into saying fucked up shit. The difference is, this stuff isn't codified into their constitution. It isn't trumpeted on every kids television show to their kids. When someone says it in public, they are vilified by their own people. We have already seen examples of that in this thread, where Fanaskin will link to some editorial, try and spin it as proof all Israeli's are horrible, just to find out that the article was immediately taken down.

Contrast this to the Palestinians. You have genocidal intentions explicitly stated all over the founding documents of groups like Hamas. When horrific shit happens, like a suicide bombing or even stuff like 9/11, you have them cheering in the streets.


The moral gap is enormous.One side uses human shields, the other side is deterred by them.
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Human shield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The UN has compiled evidence that Israeli soldiers used Palestinian children as human shields fourteen times between early 2010 and early 2013. It says all soldiers involved in the incident have gone unpunished.[40]

enormous moral gap!!!
 
Araysar

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An Amnesty International report in 2009 criticized Hamas for human rights violations, but "found no evidence Palestinian fighters directed civilians to shield military objectives from attacks, forced them to stay in buildings used by militants, or prevented them from leaving commandeered buildings". They did note that Hamas regularly stores weapons and fires rockets close to civilian areas.[42] The United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict found no evidence of Palestinian armed groups placing civilians in areas where attacks were being launched; of engaging in combat in civilian dress; or of using a mosque for military purposes or to shield military activities.[43]
 
Frenzied Wombat

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Amnesty international must share the same investigative capabilities of UNWRA. Kind of like UNRWA had no clue that three of their schools were being used as rocket depots. Araysar, do you think it's only Hamas that doesn't use human shields, or does that opinion extend to other radical Islamic groups in the region as well?

Hamas using children as human shields - YouTube

Rocket fire caught live as France 24 correspondent reports from Gaza strip - YouTube

Hamas Spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri: Human-Shield Policy Is Effecive - YouTube

This is how the palestinians using their children - YouTube

Helsingin Sanomat correspondant admits hamas launched rockets from shifa hospital - YouTube

Egyptian TV Hosts Slam Hamas Leaders: We Are Sick and Tired of You - YouTube
 
Araysar

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Merely pointing out that accusing Hamas of using human shields, claiming that Israel is deterred by them and then droning on about "enormous moral gap" doesn't have any basis in reality when IDF soldiers are routinely using Palestinian kids as human shields.
 
Cad

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Araysar_sl said:
Merely pointing out that accusing Hamas of using human shields, claiming that Israel is deterred by them and then droning on about "enormous moral gap" doesn't have any basis in reality when IDF soldiers are routinely using Palestinian kids as human shields.
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Check the source on your wikipedia assertion, the UN report just says it was "reported" that IDF used human shield 14 times between 2010 and 2013... but no details. Reported by whom to whom? Any video evidence? Etc...

Whereas there is plenty of video evidence and otherwise that Hamas does this.

I have no doubt IDF has used palestinian civilians in some not-acceptable manners, but to claim parity with Hamas on this just shows your bias.
 
Araysar

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Cad_sl said:
Check the source on your wikipedia assertion, the UN report just says it was "reported" that IDF used human shield 14 times between 2010 and 2013... but no details. Reported by whom to whom? Any video evidence? Etc...

Whereas there is plenty of video evidence and otherwise that Hamas does this.

I have no doubt IDF has used palestinian civilians in some not-acceptable manners, but to claim parity with Hamas on this just shows your bias.
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Two IDF soldiers charged with using 9-year-old 'human shield' in Gaza war Israel News | Haaretz

I'm not claiming any parity. I dont have a dog in this fight. I think Hamas is scum and I think Israel is scum.

I'm just pointing out that you dont get to claim moral high ground and claim that Israel is "deterred by human shields" when IDF uses little Palestinian kids to open suspicious packages.

The only thing deterring Israel from carpet bombing the entire Gaza Strip and killing every man, woman, child - is the condemnation of the world.
 
Frenzied Wombat

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The difference is that one side employs it as a matter of policy, while the other considers it a crime. I think in regards to Israelis soldiers employing this tactic, this excerpt from the Sam Harris commentary I posted earlier says it best

Consider the moral difference between using human shields and being deterred by them. That is the difference we're talking about. The Israelis and other Western powers are deterred, however imperfectly, by the Muslim use of human shields in these conflicts, as we should be. It is morally abhorrent to kill noncombatants if you can avoid it. It's certainly abhorrent to shoot through the bodies of children to get at your adversary. But take a moment to reflect on how contemptible this behavior is. And understand how cynical it is. The Muslims are acting on the assumption-the knowledge, in fact-that the infidels with whom they fight, the very people whom their religion does nothing but vilify, will be deterred by their use of Muslim human shields. They consider the Jews the spawn of apes and pigs-and yet they rely on the fact that they don't want to kill Muslim noncombatants. [Note: The term "Muslims" in this paragraph means "Muslim combatants" of the sort that Western forces have encountered in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. The term "jihadists" would have been too narrow, but I was not suggesting that all Muslims support the use of human shields or are anti-Semitic, at war with the West, etc.]

Now imagine reversing the roles here. Imagine how fatuous-indeed comical it would be-for the Israelis to attempt to use human shields to deter the Palestinians. Some claim that they have already done this. There are reports that Israeli soldiers have occasionally put Palestinian civilians in front of them as they've advanced into dangerous areas. That's not the use of human shields we're talking about. It's egregious behavior. No doubt it constitutes a war crime. But Imagine the Israelis holding up their own women and children as human shields. Of course, that would be ridiculous. The Palestinians are trying to kill everyone. Killing women and children is part of the plan. Reversing the roles here produces a grotesque Monty Python skit.
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Araysar

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Oh that's such moralizing bullshit.

The vast majority of Hamas' victims have been military personnel in this conflict. The vast majority of IDF's victims have been the civilians.

Tell me again who are the terrorists here...
 
Mario Speedwagon

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Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
Amnesty international must share the same investigative capabilities of UNWRA. Kind of like UNRWA had no clue that three of their schools were being used as rocket depots. Araysar, do you think it's only Hamas that doesn't use human shields, or does that opinion extend to other radical Islamic groups in the region as well?

Hamas using children as human shields - YouTube
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LiveLeak.com - **MUST SEE** Syrian Kids Launching Mortar Together! [HQ]

Nice try Schlomo
 
Araysar

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Kaines_sl said:
Since you still seemed confused, the answer is Hamas.
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wrong-answer-2240834096_56d58e2d17_o.jpg
 
O

Osiris The Everliving_sl

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You know , there was something people here would find interesting if you are already not aware of it. Whenever the NBC news anchor Brian Williams finishes his segment with the reporter that is in Gaza he always mentions the fact that you hear the Drones buzzing above Gaza.Only reason i mention that is to get this point across that follows. An advanced army like the IDF would probably have the area covered with Drones with Gaza being so small. Oh yeah thats it , just wanted to mention this to Khalid.
 
J

Jais

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Osiris The Everliving_sl said:
You know , there was something people here would find interesting if you are already not aware of it. Whenever the NBC news anchor Brian Williams finishes his segment with the reporter that is in Gaza he always mentions the fact that you hear the Drones buzzing above Gaza.Only reason i mention that is to get this point across that follows. An advanced army like the IDF would probably have the area covered with Drones with Gaza being so small. Oh yeah thats it , just wanted to mention this to Khalid.
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Was there a point hidden in there?
 
Cad

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And also, how many civilians would Hamas rockets kill if it weren't for Iron Dome?
 
iannis

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I would think they do employ recon drones. If they're trying to pinpoint exactly where the attacks are coming from it seems like an eye in the sky would be incredibly useful. At least it seems like a better plan than bombing houses at random. How does this become a mark against them?

I bet the soldiers carry guns too.
 
khalid

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Osiris The Everliving_sl said:
An advanced army like the IDF would probably have the area covered with Drones with Gaza being so small. Oh yeah thats it , just wanted to mention this to Khalid.
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What exactly is your point? The Israeli army has drones? Okay? Not sure wtf that has to do with anything, didn't you promise to leave? Stop breaking your promises.


On to Araysar and his examples of "human shields". Your examples further illustrate the point. The Israeli's caught using "human shields" were using Palestinian children. Imagine the result of Israeli's using their own children as human shields. Hamas wouldn't care at all, in fact would probably aim FOR the shields. That is because Hamas deliberately wants to target Israeli children. I mean, is this even in doubt?

Yet the Israeli's in general go to great pains not to target children. Whether this is because they aren't warped by an ideology as poisonous as extremist Islam, or because of their history with the Holocaust, or whether they simply do it because of fear of public outrage, either way, they do restrain themselves.

Now you can say that this all doesn't matter. However, to me, the divide seems pretty clear.
 
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