True Detective

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chaos

chaos

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The daughters are talking about a car crash or some shit in that scene. It has nothing to do with the murders. At least, not until we know that the scene completely reveals what happened to Marie Fontenot, something they would find later. It didn't actually happen, it was in Hart's head.

I actually kind of agree with Lithose, I don't understand why they did it this way. To have all of this symbolism not really reveal anything about the narrative, but more about the characters, it is kind of bullshit. Especially given that they know we will see the spiral ad the drawing and all of that shit and make connections that aren't really there. THat would probably be my only complaint about the show. If you're going to put symbolism in your show, it should be more meaningful than just fucking with the audience.
 
Royal

Royal

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chaos_sl said:
I actually kind of agree with Lithose, I don't understand why they did it this way.
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The cynic in me would say it was done largely to quickly ramp up the internet buzz about the show, given the relatively brief amount of time we're going to have these particular characters around. The slow build up a la Breaking Bad isn't really an option there, though I personally don't think the show needed it. The performances of the actors have been more than enough.
 
Araysar

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chaos_sl said:
The daughters are talking about a car crash or some shit in that scene. It has nothing to do with the murders. At least, not until we know that the scene completely reveals what happened to Marie Fontenot, something they would find later. It didn't actually happen, it was in Hart's head.

I actually kind of agree with Lithose, I don't understand why they did it this way. To have all of this symbolism not really reveal anything about the narrative, but more about the characters, it is kind of bullshit. Especially given that they know we will see the spiral ad the drawing and all of that shit and make connections that aren't really there. THat would probably be my only complaint about the show. If you're going to put symbolism in your show, it should be more meaningful than just fucking with the audience.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun
 
Soygen

Soygen

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chaos_sl said:
The daughters are talking about a car crash or some shit in that scene. It has nothing to do with the murders. At least, not until we know that the scene completely reveals what happened to Marie Fontenot, something they would find later. It didn't actually happen, it was in Hart's head.

I actually kind of agree with Lithose, I don't understand why they did it this way. To have all of this symbolism not really reveal anything about the narrative, but more about the characters, it is kind of bullshit. Especially given that they know we will see the spiral ad the drawing and all of that shit and make connections that aren't really there. THat would probably be my only complaint about the show. If you're going to put symbolism in your show, it should be more meaningful than just fucking with the audience.
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I don't think it's really symbolism. I think the daughter is directly involved in the school stuff. It's not symbols. It's her literally pointing out stuff from her experiences. The scene Lithose linked above is either a continuity error(my guess) or something so subtle that it borders on stupid and insulting the audience. We're supposed to notice a split second of the girl holding a doll and then it's in a different position? The only time we noticed was after some weirdo busted out their Lost-lens and broke it down frame by frame. I never would have noticed otherwise.

I guess we'll see. If they never connect anything to the daughter in the last episode, my complaint would be that they dedicated a lot of story and scenes to her growing up and being more and more fucked up, for no reason really. Or...because...symbolism.

Even then, it would be nitpicking, because I've really enjoyed everything else.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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I guess the one fucked up daughter and the perfectly fine daughter could be some kind of message that harts favorite turned out shit because he was never there for her and the fine daughter was the mom's favorite so there was no issue there. I still dont buy that though. Something traumatic happened that fucked up that kid's head.
 
Raes

Raes

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Yeah, that's what I was saying, it's extremely subtle. When the camera shifts, we automatically focus on faces first, especially if they're talking. If the shot is long enough, then we have to time to notice other things. The shot of the girl holding the doll is so short that I had to pause it to make sure the doll had the same color shirt/belt/pants as the one in the rape scene. And the doll isn't even in the shot of her putting it down on the chair behind her, it's just implied.


Edit: Forgot to mention, that it can't be real, because who sees something like that and doesn't say anything to his daughter about it? It didn't make sense to me when I first watched it, but I figured it would come up later.
 
Lithose

Lithose

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Soygen_sl said:
I don't think it's really symbolism. I think the daughter is directly involved in the school stuff. It's not symbols. It's her literally pointing out stuff from her experiences. The scene Lithose linked above is either a continuity error(my guess) or something so subtle that it borders on stupid and insulting the audience. We're supposed to notice a split second of the girl holding a doll and then it's in a different position? The only time we noticed was after some weirdo busted out their Lost-lens and broke it down frame by frame. I never would have noticed otherwise.
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I'm hoping there is some real connection, too. But if absolutely nothing gets said about it, then it kind of just lends credence to it being stuff that is floating around in Hart's head (Which feels weak to me)--it's a minor gripe, but I agree with Royal, it feels like stuff he tossed in just to troll up some attention. Again, it's minor, it won't make me dislike the series if they just leave it dangling there with the explanation that it was supposed to symbolize Hart's "clue sixth sense" or whatever, but I think it would be better if those clues were actual physical links to her being abused (So the stuff we saw was as you said, real signs from her).
 
Royal

Royal

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NP could also be using Season 1 as a set up pitch, with these meta themes echoing throughout the show to little or no consequence to the storyline, only to follow it up with more of a curve ball in Season 2.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

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It's not in Hart's head. It's something WE see because flat circle blah blah but the detectives miss because curse right under their nose and so forth.
 
Raes

Raes

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I assume you mean his drug stash, so he's having hallucinations. Otherwise you would mean that Marty knew Rust was back in town, followed him, saw he had a storage unit and decided to break into it for shits and giggles, and did it so cleverly that Rust didn't notice.


Edit: Doh. Sarcasm, how does it work? I'll just wander off now, nothing to see here.
 
chaos

chaos

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The point is, the doll thing didn't actually happen, whatever it is it wasn't real. That leads me to believe the other shit is probably more of the same. Symbolism/thematic elements that on a rewatch you would go "OH SHIT LOOK!" but because of the internet we are seeing it now.
 
Drinsic

Drinsic

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Except that you don't know it wasn't real, and the only reason to believe it wasn't is a likely continuity error. Jesus fucking Christ I hope someone asks him about it in an interview.
 
Raes

Raes

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No, the point is, if it wasn't real, then why did they show us, the audience, Marty viewing his daughters dolls arranged in what we can only assume is the scene of Marie Fontenot's rape, when at the time of his interview with Fuck and Suck, neither he, nor we, had seen that videotape? It makes no sense any way you look at it, symbolic or otherwise.


Edit: @Drinsic The fact that Marty sees it and as far as we know, ignores it would also indicate that it wasn't real.
 
chaos

chaos

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Bro, you can hear the girls talking about what they are doing with the dolls as he walks up to the door. I hate to tell you guys this, but the daughter isn't going to play out into anything. She just had issues.

It is shitty symbolism. It repeats the theme yet again, we see it in the picture in Dora Lange's mom's house and again in the beer can sculptures that Rust makes, probably other places too. But I don't think any of it is meant to point out of foreshadow a particular event beyond the Marie Fontenot killing and the ritual nature of the crimes.
 
Drinsic

Drinsic

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Never said they were going to explicitly tie her to the shit, it could just be something for viewers to find. "Oh shit, Audrey got bad touched or one of her friends got bad touched by someone connected to Carcosa."
 
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