War with Syria

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fanaskin

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Yeah and that shit is fucking stupid and leads to stuff likethis.
but dude violence never happens even in secured area's like military forts. it's irrational to want to protect yourself when clearly we can keep our military forts disarmed and nothing bad will EVER happen.
 

Erronius

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where was this?
Any time not in-theater, during training, a lot of time in-transit, sometimes even in theater, but that probably depended on specific location and MOS more than anything else. I remember seeing some peeps in Mosul walking around unarmed iirc, but they were probably fobettes and to be honest, I wasn't looking for who was or was not unarmed in any event at the time.

I can remember once we had a 24 duty detail guarding ammo trucks with everything from explosives to tank rounds on them. (this was stateside in peacetime mind you so YMMV) Obviously the point of posting guards is to prevent someone from breaking in or stealing anything, but we weren't even allowed to draw weapons from the arms room - we were all handedpickaxe handles. The only person who got a weapon and ammo was the SOG and he got a 9 with exactly 6 rounds issued (IIRC). We had more than 6 enlisted there on that detail and we found it hilarious that the SOG didn't even have enough rounds to fight us off if for some bizarre reason we were to decide to steal the ammo trucks and drive off. We basically stood around all night playing quasi-baseball using those pick handles and rocks.

Ah, taxpayer moneys at work.

We were also never armed when guarding anything like buildings or motor pools either, which also seemed bizarre to me since Army policy was also to keep all vehicles in full running condition with full fuel at all times. Most wheeled vehicles were secured with chains or cables with padlocks through the steering wheels since they had no actual ignition per se; tracked vehicles just had all but one hatch locked from the inside then one hatch padlocked from the outside (also no ignition). You could have literally (pre 9/11) driven onto most bases (many had open gates at the time), climbed a fence in a motorpool, cut a padlock and driven off in a tank and all we would have been able to do was pick up the phone. At least you wouldn't be able to fire any of them, but /shrug (firing pins removed from 120mm, all MGs stored in arms room, etc). Hell, many motorpools didn't even have guards. Obviously that changed post 9/11, but point is that the military simply doesn't make sense a lot of the time.

Now non military, I was surprised when the KBR security folks escorting hundreds of people minimum per day through BIAP for example were never armed - that was their official policy. Our buses had kevlar mats (sometimes) over the windows because of snipers, but they felt that there was no reason to even try trading gunfire if fired upon and the SOP was to GTFO if fired upon. They did at times run armored SUVs with the buses that mostly cut off Iraqi vehicles (fear of insurgents blocking us in and then attacking), but honestly they never ever wanted to get into a gunbattle with anyone.

That thinking stays with me when I talk to friends that conceal carry everywhere they go. One buddy of mine carrys when he goes out with his wife, and we've debated the pros and cons of that. Would he be better off being unarmed and trying to run away from some unforeseen incident with her, or should he be armed, see a "potential threat", stop and pull his weapon and end up possibly endangering her?

but dude violence never happens even in secured area's like military forts. it's irrational to want to protect yourself when clearly we can keep our military forts disarmed and nothing bad will EVER happen.
It isn't irrational to want to defend yourself per se but you didn't answer my question.

What fantasy world do you live in that the odds of someone trying to attack you with potentially lethal levels of violence is so high that you must be armed at all times?
I mean seriously, I have a hard time understanding how one's life is so dangerous, unless there are special circumstances. I've been in a number of shitholes around the world and I wasn't armed; it would make no sense for me at all to treat US soil as if I were in Mogadishu.
 

Loser Araysar

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^ this might be the saddest post i ever read

I mean seriously, I have a hard time understanding how one's life is so dangerous, unless there are special circumstances. I've been in a number of shitholes around the world and I wasn't armed; it would make no sense for me at all to treat US soil as if I were in Mogadishu.
Well considering that Chicago murder rates are already exceeding Baghdad and approaching Mogadishu, this might be sooner than you think.
 

fanaskin

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Why Sen. Lindsey Graham Thinks the U.S. Will Be Nuked

South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham intimated the United States could suffer a nuclear attack if it did not contain Syria's chemical weapons programs.

"I believe that if we get Syria wrong, within six months, and you can quote me on this, there will be a war between Iran and Israel over their nuclear program," Graham told a crowd in South Carolina. "My fear is that it won't come to America on top of a missile, it'll come in the belly of a ship in the Charleston or New York harbor."

Graham said that if the United States did not stop Syria, an ally of Iran, the latter country would succeed in developing a nuclear weapon, technology it would then share with allies. A more radicalized Middle East would force Israel to step up its preparations for war, leading to an inevitable escalation that could result in a nuclear attack
 

fanaskin

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I mean seriously, I have a hard time understanding how one's life is so dangerous, unless there are special circumstances. I've been in a number of shitholes around the world and I wasn't armed; it would make no sense for me at all to treat US soil as if I were in Mogadishu.
Where do you live erronious? I suspect your georgraphy has alot to do with your opinion.

crime rate comparison website
 

Erronius

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Well considering that Chicago murder rates are already exceeding Baghdad and approaching Mogadishu, this might be sooner than you think.
You'd have a hard time convincing me that Chicago actually has more murders than Baghdad - reported "rates" might be higher but there's a lot of crimes in Iraq (and similar countries) that never get reported and frankly I'm not sure that their methodology is as good as 1800s America was. You have such things as Muslim burial customs that complicate things (rushing to bury them w/o reporting), and a quick google search tells me that Chicago had around 507 homicides in 2012 (less than the 656 in 2002 and less than the 943 in '92). The bad thing is trying to pin down even a ballpark figure for Baghdad that is even halfway trustworthy.http://versus.com/en/baghdad-vs-chicagoseems questionable as they must pull data from Wiki pages, but they say Chicago's murder rate is half of Baghdad's (19.4 vs 48) but I didn't even see murder rates listed in the Baghdad Wiki.http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2012/shows Baghdad as having had 1,099 murders for a 15.58 murder rate but still, not only is the discrepancy bizarre, but that's only what's reported. That page does have a data download tool but not gonna filter all that out at 1am.


At least I don't think Iraqis are stoning Emo kids to death anymore, so that's something. (EDIT: too bad those kids didn't have guns to protect themselves from those rocks, eh fanaskin?)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-clothes.html


I could have just gone off this article but again, meh.The truths behind the myth of Chicago's violence

Where do you live erronious? I suspect your georgraphy has alot to do with your opinion.

crime rate comparison website
Well I don't know WTF "georgraphy" is but let's try out your link here. It won't calculate the KC Metro area as a whole, but it doesn't matter really, either murder rate is significantly higher.
 

Loser Araysar

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Baghdad probably counts car bombings as murders.
 

TrollfaceDeux

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what is the use of your guns in the event of car bombing? Shoot into the air while shouting "ALLAH AKBAR?" before the blast shreds your body into pieces?
 

chthonic-anemos

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From what I?ve been told, Aipac has decided to do what is in the president?s best interests. Its lobbyists are calling their friends on the Hill, to tell them that a strike on Syria would be not only in America?s best interest but also in Israel?s.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...r-at-last.html
rrr_img_43083.jpg
 

hodj

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Going to war to make Israel and Saudi Arabia happy.

Nope, still sounds like an awful idea.
 

Tuco

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all right guys please take the gun control bullshit to the gun control thread. Thanks. It's time to see this stupid idea die in Congress like it should.
 

fanaskin

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John Kerry gives Syria week to hand over chemical weapons or face attack
US secretary of state tells London press conference with William Hague that US intelligence blames Assad regime for gas attack

The US secretary of state has said that President Bashar al-Assad has one week to hand over his entire stock of chemical weapons to avoid a military attack. But John Kerry added that he had no expectation that the Syrian leader would comply.

Kerry also said he had no doubt that Assad was responsible for the chemical weapons attack in east Damascus on 21 August, saying that only three people are responsible for the chemical weapons inside Syria - Assad, one of his brothers and a senior general. He said the entire US intelligence community was united in believing Assad was responsible.
 

Aaron

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John Kerry gives Syria week to hand over chemical weapons or face attack
US secretary of state tells London press conference with William Hague that US intelligence blames Assad regime for gas attack
And suddenly this might just go throughvia Zerohedge.

Coming from the Russians then there is a good chance this might happen. And what then? The USA+allies will be left standing with their dicks in their hands? Or will they find some other reason to go ahead with an attack?
 

Tuco

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And suddenly this might just go throughvia Zerohedge.

Coming from the Russians then there is a good chance this might happen. And what then? The USA+allies will be left standing with their dicks in their hands? Or will they find some other reason to go ahead with an attack?
If Syria makes an effort to hand over its chemical weapons I'd actually consider that a win for international diplomacy on the US and Russian ride. It doesn't change the Syrian war and the typical war hawks will be pissed but it still maintains the negative stigma of chemical weapons without an armed conflict.

Even Assad wins from it because if the US says 'Ok we're good' to his regime then the rebels will become severely demoralized.
 

Eomer

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Yeah, I don't see that happening. Russia is doing it to make it look like they're being responsible or cooperative. Assad won't do it because chemical weapons are his trump card ("I'll launch this shit at Tel Aviv if you come any closer!"). And the US would never be like "oh yeah, he handed them over" without a massive inspection regime that would take years to establish and is completely impossible when there's a civil war going on.

Nice idea, but it ain't going to happen.
 

Arbitrary

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Assad won't do it because chemical weapons are his trump card ("I'll launch this shit at Tel Aviv if you come any closer!").
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...98809D20130909

The foreign minister says he's for it.

"I state that the Syrian Arab Republic welcomes the Russian initiative, motivated by the Syrian leadership's concern for the lives of our citizens and the security of our country, and also motivated by our confidence in the wisdom of the Russian leadership, which is attempting to prevent American aggression against our people," Moualem said through an interpreter.
Of course the U.S. has again moved the goal posts and says the goal is regime change and not the chemical weapons. Chemical weapons aresoooolast week.