Weight Loss Thread

Deathwing

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,717
7,731
Khane_sl said:
Eating a lot of white bread and white rice has almost no nutritional benefit, especially white bread which is made with refined white flour (which is one of the worst things for your health on the planet). So actually yes, depending on what kind of bread you are eating it absolutely does make you unhealthy.

How Bread with Refined White Flour Affects Your Health
Click to expand...
You do realize that you're essentially agreeing with Phoenix? He said nothing to the matter of amount. Eating some rice or bread may be nutritionally deficient but that does not make it unhealthy. You can easily get the nutrients you need from just part of your diet. Empty calories are ok.

BTW, using a link that cites a British tabloid probably isn't the best evidence.


What are we calling "white" bread? Sourdough? Rye? Ciabatta?
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,244
15,027
When I was heavy into weight lifting I found my body craving carbs after workouts so bad. Didn't matter what it was.. white bread, wheat bread, white rice, brown rice, twinkies. I can't put a label on any diet I use, I generally just eat high protein, low sugar, moderate carb meals and go from there. It's better than eating Wendy's everyday so I consider it positive.
 
Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Gold Donor>
46,233
97,833
Deathwing_sl said:
You do realize that you're essentially agreeing with Phoenix? He said nothing to the matter of amount. Eating some rice or bread may be nutritionally deficient but that does not make it unhealthy. You can easily get the nutrients you need from just part of your diet. Empty calories are ok.

BTW, using a link that cites a British tabloid probably isn't the best evidence.


What are we calling "white" bread? Sourdough? Rye? Ciabatta?
Click to expand...
This. Obviously white rice is more or less devoid nutrition, but to think its unhealthy to eat it is just plain stupid. Having rice for dinner a couple times a week isnt going to kill you any faster than not eating it.
 
Itlan

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
I ate rice every day growing up. My mother is cuban... steak, rice and black beans. Every. Night.
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,244
15,027
My family is italian so all I ate was pasta.. im fat as fuck.

Also Japs eat all fish.. I don't know if I could do that just to be healthy. Plus they're short with small dicks.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,314
13,959
Refined white flour literally is unhealthy and white bread as a result is too. Yes, of course in moderation they can be OK. I just take issue with saying that something when eaten more than say, three times a week, can and will have negative effects on your health isn't unhealthy. I think you're right, I think we're all in agreement. I just didn't like the use of such a blanket statement. You can't really say "bread isn't unhealthy" when breads made with refined white flour actually are detrimental to your health unless you eat them very infrequently.

Also, let's not get onto the whole "Japanese people seem healthy! they eat white rice all the time! It must be healthy!" train. You can't ignore the rest of the lifestyle and diet to prove something is or isn't healthy. Correlation is not causation.
 
Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Gold Donor>
46,233
97,833
Khane_sl said:
Refined white flour literally is unhealthy and white bread as a result is too. Yes, of course in moderation they can be OK. I just take issue with saying that something when eaten more than say, three times a week, can and will have negative effects on your health isn't unhealthy. I think you're right, I think we're all in agreement. I just didn't like the use of such a blanket statement. You can't really say "bread isn't unhealthy" when breads made with refined white flour actually are detrimental to your health unless you eat them very infrequently.

Also, let's not get onto the whole "Japanese people seem healthy! they eat white rice all the time! It must be healthy!" train. You can't ignore the rest of the lifestyle and diet to prove something is or isn't healthy. Correlation is not causation.
Click to expand...
But you like going with correlation = causation so why cant I?


ps splenda = ddtHealth Hazards Associated with Splenda Consumption
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
46,816
78,436
Khane_sl said:
This is and isn't true. Dollar menus, canned foods and frozen entrees are indeed cheaper than fresh produce and meat. However, not by so much that you can't feed yourself on a very tight budget. It's really an excuse. I used to feed myself on about $25-$50 per week in college while I was doing Atkins (the correct way). My 3 roommates and I chipped in for a BJ's membership and bought in bulk. Buying chicken breast cutlets, big bags of broccoli, spinach and bell peppers, eggs and occasionally some pork sausage and red meat from any of those club stores is actually quite inexpensive. Not to mention that the butcher shops tend to be alot better than your local grocery chain. It's a misconception that doing a low carb diet like paleo is expensive. It helped that I drink nothing but water and we had a filtered pitcher. Not buying drinks saves you a TON of money.

The funny thing is your hunger will be managed and sated much better doing paleo than eating the cheap food and in turn you will eat less. You will also lose weight and in turn continue eating even less. You will end up spending far less eating appropriately than eating the cheaper shit. The problem is education in health. Most people still have no idea what eating healthy really entails and still buy into the farce that is low fat ideology. Also, poor people tend to not care about what is and isn't healthy and can't think in terms of sustainability over a long period of time. They see that they can feed their family for 12 dollars at McDonalds and compare that to the 20 it's going to cost them for chicken cutlets and veggies and just choose the dollar menu ignoring the fact that the 20 dollar meal will be more satisfying, much healthier, and probably leave them with leftovers.
Click to expand...
I'd be interested to see a breakdown of how much more meat we'd need if everyone was paleo and whether our agriculture could sustain it.

Part of the problem is that you need some 2lbs of grain to make one pound of chicken (and like 4 for pork and 8 for beef). The other part of the problem is that farm animals are often fed on agriculture byproduct, so if you stopped making corn/wheat/potatoes for humans you might need to do something more expensive for animals.

I really don't know the answer to this question, I would just be very surprised if we could switch from corn to chicken nationwide and have enough to go around. Naturally we import a lot of our food so it'd be a question of cost rather than a question of possibility.
 
Gravel

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
38,982
127,256
Khane_sl said:
This is and isn't true. Dollar menus, canned foods and frozen entrees are indeed cheaper than fresh produce and meat. However, not by so much that you can't feed yourself on a very tight budget. It's really an excuse. I used to feed myself on about $25-$50 per week in college while I was doing Atkins (the correct way).
Click to expand...
There are some posters on this site that really need to figure out the difference between micro and macro. Tuco said the nation couldn't feed itself on paleo, because it's too expensive (macro). Then you give an example about howyouwere able to feed yourself on paleo, relatively unexpensively (micro -- and also $50 a week for a single person isn't cheap for most of the country).

The nation works well on cheap food because it doesn't require as much arable land to produce. If everyone started eating paleo and needed tons of protein, we'd be fucked. The country just can't support the resources for that. The reason you're able to afford to do paleo or Atkins is because all those poor people are eating shit.

Edit: And god damn it. Tuco basically posted the same thing while I was writing that.
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,244
15,027
I had this friend that was really poor.. to the point he didn't have enough money for food a lot of times. I specifically remember him begging us for money and then going and buying a meal at McDonalds. I even offered to go with him and get some chicken and rice and cook him a meal for a few days instead of wasting his money at McDonalds on a quick fix. Some uninformed people just don't get it.
 
Dashel

Dashel

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,833
2,931
Eating good food is not only more expensive but it's more of a PITA in terms of prep time. McDonalds being the example of extremely easy and convenient fast food, as opposed to going to BJ's or Costco for a huge package of chicken breast and spices and cooking it up.

It might not be hard to throw together a quick chicken and rice meal, but relative to walking in and saying Big Mac extra pickles, it's still susceptible to 'path of least resistance" mentality.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,314
13,959
Elurin_sl said:
There are some posters on this site that really need to figure out the difference between micro and macro. Tuco said the nation couldn't feed itself on paleo, because it's too expensive (macro). Then you give an example about howyouwere able to feed yourself on paleo, relatively unexpensively (micro -- and also $50 a week for a single person isn't cheap for most of the country).

The nation works well on cheap food because it doesn't require as much arable land to produce. If everyone started eating paleo and needed tons of protein, we'd be fucked. The country just can't support the resources for that. The reason you're able to afford to do paleo or Atkins is because all those poor people are eating shit.

Edit: And god damn it. Tuco basically posted the same thing while I was writing that.
Click to expand...
I understand exactly what you guys are saying and it's an interesting point and certainly possible. However, let's not discount the fact that the frozen meals and fast food both still have animal protein and vegetables just not good ones. Let's also not discount the fact that as a nation we would eating far less (plausibly, not necessarily true but hopefully based on how the diet and hunger work) and obesity would be much less widespread. That is obviously opinion and I see your points but I don't think as a nation we would run into a food shortage. I just don't see it.

Obesity raises healthcare costs exponentially, we would certainly save money there and quite a bit of it that we could pump back into feeding the nation. Saying that feeding an obese nation eating shit is cheaper than feeding a fit nation good food with quality ingredients seems misguided.

And really? "Some posters need to the learn the difference between macro and micro". I really rustle your jimmies don't I?
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,717
7,731
Khane_sl said:
Refined white flour literally is unhealthy and white bread as a result is too.
Click to expand...
Because? And please don't link to that bullshit mercola website again. You should really know better than to trust a website that lists the following as bad ingredients: salt, preservatives, soy, and enzymes. The only definitively bad ingredient on that guys cute little "square" is trans fats.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,314
13,959
Deathwing_sl said:
Because? And please don't link to that bullshit mercola website again. You should really know better than to trust a website that lists the following as bad ingredients: salt, preservatives, soy, and enzymes. The only definitively bad ingredient on that guys cute little "square" is trans fats.
Click to expand...
Come on Deathwing, you know damn well how many studies have been done on this, that was just the easiest first link on Google. You're arguing with me for the sake of arguing because I know that you know refined white flour is terrible for your health. You've done way too much reading on healthy living and eating to not know that.

Here you go:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...et-works/?_r=0

Almost every diet, from the radical no-carb-at-all notions to the tame (and sane) "Healthy Eating Plate" from Harvard, agrees on at least this notion: reduce, or even come close to eliminating, the amount of hyper-processed carbohydrates in your diet, because, quite simply, they're bad for you. And if you look at statistics, at least a quarter of our calories come from added sugars (seven percent from beverages alone), white flour, white rice, white pasta . are you seeing a pattern here? (Oh, and white potatoes. And beer.)
Click to expand...
Seeking A Grain Of Truth In Labels : NPR

LUDWIG: Yeah, I mean I agree with Joanne that we need to take sometimes small steps first. The - now that trans fat is largely leaving the food supply, refined carbohydrates in general, and I think - well, Rob Lustig would say sugar, but I would broaden that to say refined carbohydrates in general, importantly including refined grain products, are among the least healthful foods in the food supply, where as whole grains are consistently shown to be protective.

So what do we do about a population that's eating a lot more white bread than wheat berries for, you know, for breakfast or for snack and for lunch? I think the first step is to move from highly processed white grains to whole grains that may still be very, very processed, you know, the things that you would find in the chocolate Lucky Charms cereal.

But then the next step is to really think about how the intact food structure, the properties of food that can't be measured just by a number and a nutrient, may affect biology. And there's considerable reason to believe that the intact whole grain is really much better.

For example, we did a study with 12 obese adolescents where we gave them instant oatmeal and compared that to to steel-cut oats. We gave that to them at breakfast. Steel-cut oats is a preparatory method that maintains the structure of the oat kernel intact, just slices it a couple of times so it can cook. It takes 30 minutes to cook instead of instant.

But we found that after the instant oatmeal, blood sugar rose much faster and higher than after the steel-cut oats. A few hours later, the blood sugar crashed, levels of adrenaline, which is a stress hormone released with hypoglycemia, surged, and the teenage participants were much hungrier, eating five or six hundred calories more when offered free food, freely available food, than after the steel-cut oats.

Same calories, same fiber, same grams of carbohydrate, the only difference being the food form.
Click to expand...
That's Dr. David Ludwig. A medical doctor who has conducted a lot of tests on refined carbs, direct quotes.

Here's another one for good measure:

Starchy foods may put children at risk of fatty livers
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,717
7,731
Perhaps you are confusing me with Dashel and Denaut, but I haven't done a lot of "complete" reading on healthy living. I'll read what you guys post and link, if only to be annoying and I happen to like eating most of the stuff you guys say I shouldn't eat(at all).

I did a quick googling. First 5 I skimmed all centered around the assumption that people can't control themselves around carbs. Perhaps a safe assumption for the general public but that's not me. And it's still a bullshit assumption. If I can't control myself around bleach, bleach is pretty bad for me. No, wait, bleach is bad period and everyone knows why. That's what I want. Why is refined flour bad? You mentioned education as a key proponent to eating healthy and reducing obesity. I agree, educate me. And don't assume I'm a cookie monster.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,314
13,959
I edited my post to include some reading, probably as you were typing that response.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.