Weight Loss Thread

fifey_sl said:

Losing weight is hard, so I shouldn't be held accountable.

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mures_sl said:

that is no excuse

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Like I said, you wouldn't understand. And losing weight isn't that hard, it is 100% mental for nearly everyone. Dieting and exercise is the easy part.

mures_sl said:

Like I said, you wouldn't understand.

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You / this mentality make me sad. On the whole, overweight people know they are overweight. They know they are hurting themselves. They know they have no excuse. However, they spend time looking for confirmation bias and answers that do not point to them because the truth hurts. I know this because that is how I was. Overweight, knew it was my fault, and didn't do anything about it.

I am not saying it is impossible to have a medical disorder or something that causes weight gain. I am saying being overweight is a choice for most people. The problem with the mindset of the 'fat acceptance' movement is, why accept it? Maybe someone has a good answer, or maybe they think they are a beautiful and unique snowflake rather than a pleb like the rest of us.

mures_sl said:

exercise is the easy part.

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Dieting is not easy. It's never easy.

fifey_sl said:

Losing weight is hard, so I shouldn't be held accountable.

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Who's saying that? I don't see anyone in this thread (of late) saying that or being a fatty apologist. Are you talking in general or being purposely obtuse? Mures wasn't saying fat people shouldn't be held accountable. It's so simplistic to think you can boil down complex human behavior and interactions to trite one liners. Understanding something is not the same as excusing it or accepting it. If tomorrow it was discovered that there was a murderer gene and 100% of all murderers had it, it wouldn't make murder acceptable. It would simply lead to focused research on discovering a way to counteract the effect of that gene. Because murder is accepted by nearly all of society as an extremely bad thing, there must be extreme steps against regardless of how it appears. Murderers would still have to be accountable because of the impact their actions have.

It's worth noting that fat people are held accountable for their actions (to varying degrees) because they die earlier, have more health problems, cannot find higher quality partners, and even face poorer employment opportunities. Whether someone is saying "you're beautiful" or not, there are still serious consequences to being obese.

Though obviously not to the degree of murder, obesity is also negatively impacting many individuals and society as a whole. There should be steps taken to combat it, but that must work in concert with a holistic understanding of the problem. You can't figure out a solution if you don't understand the complexity of the problem (to go back to the murderer argument, it's been shown that the death penalty doesn't serve as a deterrent even though that's touted as a primary purpose of the death penalty by many). Very few things are as simple as people would like them to be. If you think "they eat too much, stop it" is an apt and appropriate way to approach it, then I hope you look forward to ever increasing obesity. Personally, I'd rather have people researching good practices, educating, encouraging healthy behavior, and developing techniques that individuals and societies can do that will help make it easier for people to make the healthy decisions. Our mind and body works against us when it comes to addiction so it would be useful to find ways to manipulate our mind and body into doing the right thing.

I'm just saying take responsibility for your actions, there is always some excuse as to why someone's overweight when you ask them. It's not my fault, it's genetics or I just don't have time to go to the gym with the kids yet when the free donut boxes get opened, they sure make sure they are there.

For people in the 20 to 50 lbs overweight group, I don't mind. That's just letting it slip for a while, I just feel no sympathy for landwhales, same as junkies and alcoholics. You don't just one day, balloon up to 290 lbs, it's a gradual decline of you just not willing to face reality.

(enjoys thread full of narcissists talk about mental disorders)

I just get to the point where I can feel gravity on my fat (usually moobs), get disgusted and stop eating shit/start exercise.

Tarrant_sl said:

I hit my first goal of 20lbs lost. Time to keep on trucking.

As a fat guy who is now a little bit less of a fat guy, it is hard to not eat like a fat guy. Much like it was said, it's an addiction. I do miss that feeling of filling myself to capacity.

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I think this is one thing people don't realize about skinny/in shape people, we have those same cravings and want to eat like that too. That never goes away. I would devour fast food every meal if I could with soda and all the sweets. They lessen as you get away from eating those foods but fuck, if somebody in the office gets whataburger I crave it for the next few days on smell alone.

I don't enjoy eating healthy chicken every meal.

Yeah, you do start to miss it less. And actually if you do it for a year or so, you'll come to dislike the feeling of stuffing yourself. I used to LOVE stuffing myself full. I still do it sometimes but usually when I do nowadays it's like, "Oh god. So full. Not good. Must poop." Unless I was just famished to begin with.

It's like if you ever went vegitarian for whatever reason. Or when you cut back on salt. For a few months you do miss it, and then you don't think about it, and then when you eat some salty meat you're like "blech".

Trained responses over a period of time. That should be expected and hopefully something that is an outcome of eating less of specific types of "bad" food. But for the obese, that shit is very difficult to make the transition to. Not defending the life choices of the super-fat for any reason, but to get them over into the healthy eating aisle, you gotta look at the underlying reasons why they were over in fat-land to begin with. Those moments of pleasure when they are consuming shit they love (and everyone here knows it is shit) are hard to replicate for -months- after being on a diet and weight regimen. If you aren't a born and bred gym rat, your gym time is going to be a necessary evil instead of something absolutely awesome every day. The same with the people who are eating at the caloric max/at a deficit. We can do that because it is just something we enjoy doing (ie, looking good/feeling good) but if you are a huge person who has primarily had enjoyment and lack of self pity through eating? Yeah, good luck on making that change with a simple slogan. That kind of stuff is super hard work and I applaud any person in the 25+% bodyfat range who makes that move. But that isn't going to be the baseline, and it is not simply as easy as saying "well, skinny people have cravings too!" There is a huge difference between someone who has only one source of pleasure (food) and someone who has another (being fit/skinny/whatever) and their views on food.

Over time you learn to ignore those cravings, and that's entirely willpower and stamina based. But fat people who are just getting into it? That type of mentality just sends them back into binge eating and obesity.

Basically, all I am saying is that it is very difficult for the obese to look at food the way we (the slightly-greatly more in shape people) look at it. There is a big psychological barrier between that and what we think they should be thinking. Definitely not a game of blacks and whites.

Also, chicken can be made delicious, it just takes culinary know-how and a bit of creativity. Part of dieting efficiently is really controlling how you intake food, and choosing to make those evening meals the best thing ever instead of splurging a little bit on each daily meal can make a huge difference. I give zero fucks about my 2 egg 1/2cup oatmeal breakfasts, nor my easy salad/tunafish lunches. But man, do I spend some time making my evening meals something spectacular. And I'm not talking about spending hours in the kitchen to make this work; it is all about having templates and then extrapolating ideas from there.

What is with this myfitnesspal premium nonsense? $10/mo or $50/year to track custom macros by gram? To display summary information in a more convenient manner? I am not sure Under Armor realizes an acceptable price scheme for a smartphone app. Or maybe they do and are soon to be rich.

Ubiquitrips_sl said:

You / this mentality make me sad. On the whole, overweight people know they are overweight. They know they are hurting themselves. They know they have no excuse. However, they spend time looking for confirmation bias and answers that do not point to them because the truth hurts. I know this because that is how I was. Overweight, knew it was my fault, and didn't do anything about it.

I am not saying it is impossible to have a medical disorder or something that causes weight gain. I am saying being overweight is a choice for most people. The problem with the mindset of the 'fat acceptance' movement is, why accept it? Maybe someone has a good answer, or maybe they think they are a beautiful and unique snowflake rather than a pleb like the rest of us.

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I wouldn't say being overweight is something most ppl choose; it is however something most ppl accept. And thats why I say unless you've been there you wouldn't/couldn't understand because everybody has their reasons for accepting it. Maybe that person was in a terrible accident and couldn't walk for two years, maybe they lost a loved one and have/had horrible depression from it, maybe they do have a medical condition. Whatever it is people have their reasons and its usually not because some stranger on the internet or tv told them they're beautiful the way they are; even most fat people are disgusted by the way they look, they don't need ppl mocking them or treating them like 2nd rate citizens and make them feel even worse.

I was talking about super obese ppl and fifey's response of "its hard working out" shows how little he understands when using my hill/mountain metaphor. Super obese ppl struggle to walk 1/4 of a mile, if they can do that, saying working out is hard for these ppl is an understatement. Of course ideally you do not want to get to that state, but when you're there its already too late, or so how many ppl feel at the time, so they accept being fat and thus, get fatter.

Of course now I'd say its never too late and start moving your ass now, but having been large my entire life (literally since an infant) I can understand why fat ppl feel like they have no choice and think that is just who they are, so they accept being fat. Unless you've been there you probably won't understand what that is like. I know because I've been obese for thirty years and I have a hard time understanding it, both with myself and of course as an outsider looking at other ppl, I wouldn't expect someone who hasn't been there to have a better understanding then the person going through it.

Edit - I mean look at rezz, he just said he applauds anyone in the 25% body range who makes that move, as if it is a lot. If you thinking diet and exercise is an accomplishment at 25% bmi, how do you not feel as hopeless as the ppl in the 30+ range as they do about themselves if you think that is something. Over 1/3 of us adults are obese, that is 30%+. Considering this is a gaming forum probably ~50% of the posters/lurkers here are obese.

This was an interesting article and I wouldn't have expected the results, being that I loathe my obesity:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...69F1AN20101016

Among more than 2,000 obese Dallas County residents surveyed in 2000-2002, 14 percent of African Americans and 11 percent of Hispanics -- but just 2 percent of whites -- believed that they did not need to lose weight, Dr. Tiffany M. Powell of the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas and her colleagues found.

People who misperceived their body size were happier with their health, and felt healthier, than those who did recognize their obesity; they were also more likely to think they were at low risk of developing high blood pressure or diabetes or having a heart attack during their lifetimes. In fact, two-thirds of people with body size misperception thought they were at low risk of becoming obese.

The study "points to really a lack of understanding about the effects of obesity," Powell told Reuters Health. At the same time, she added, "you walk a fine line, because you don't want people to necessarily have an unhealthy body image, but you also want people to understand that they need to lose weight."

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I thought maybe the fat acceptance thing this was an overblown vocal internet minority, but maybe there is more substance to it than that. In that studytwo thirds of already obese people didn't think they were at risk of being obese. That blows my mind.

Another interesting study, reporting here:Obesity Is Contagious, Study Finds - TIME

According to their analysis, when a study participant's friend became obese, that first participant had a 57% greater chance of becoming obese himself. In pairs of people in which each identified the other as a close friend, when one person became obese the other had a 171% greater chance of following suit. "You are what you eat isn't the end of the story," says study co-author James Fowler, a political scientist at UC San Diego. "You are what you and your friends eat."

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So, maybe there is something to be done about fighting the idea of fat acceptance. However, unlike those who want it solely be a matter of personal responsibility, I think the above studies show that it's a societal problem that shouldn't be ignored by society. Just think of all the work time lost and insurance costs alone. People need to be educated, offered resources, and have research done to aid the goal of societal weight loss (a book like Mindless Eating has very interesting information about environmental changes we can make, or take a recent discovery that artificial sweeteners may be as bad or worse than the real thing (something useful to know if you used them as a bridge from overeating habits), among many ways having deeper knowledge can aid in fighting obesity). It's already reached the point where putting resources into proactively getting people to be healthy is less costly than having millions of fat people. Unless you simply want fat people executed, just being repulsed by fat people and saying they should figure it out themselves with no other aid is not really conducive to a solution.

Cad_sl said:

Maybe it's my thin privilege but I don't get why its so fucking hard to eat less if you don't want to be fat.

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I'm late here but isn't an issue also the stomach expands when you fill it to the brim so many times so fatties can eat a ton more compared to a normal thin person who doesn't constantly overeat? Like their bodies don't actually know that they're eating enough for 4 people because it doesn't send off the brain signals anymore because it has given up on trying to tell fatty to slow down.

I thought maybe the fat acceptance thing this was an overblown vocal internet minority, but maybe there is more substance to it than that. In that study two thirds of already obese people didn't think they were at risk of being obese. That blows my mind.

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The end of the first article you linked hit the nail on the end: obesity is becoming so common that people don't understand what a healthy weight looks like, nor do they realize when they are obese. I remember years ago when I was first shedding weight and hitting the gym, that I started getting told by people that I was "too thin" when I was around the 25% body fat mark. I was like, "lolwut?" Eventually we're going to reach the point of no return, where the majority of Americans are obese/overweight and actually healthy Americans will be in the minority. At that point, it's just a slow, gradual slide into Wall-E.

McCheese_sl said:

The end of the first article you linked hit the nail on the end: obesity is becoming so common that people don't understand what a healthy weight looks like, nor do they realize when they are obese. I remember years ago when I was first shedding weight and hitting the gym, that I started getting told by people that I was "too thin" when I was around the 25% body fat mark. I was like, "lolwut?" Eventually we're going to reach the point of no return, where the majority of Americans are obese/overweight and actually healthy Americans will be in the minority. At that point, it's just a slow, gradual slide into Wall-E.

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I thought we hit that mark years ago.

1800 calories? at 260? Jesus.