Well, now what?

dolaan_sl · Dec 17, 2012

I kind of feel that the thing I loved about EQ was being honestly scared.

The game was hard and if you died at least at first you had to go retrieve your corpse and if it was under a mob you died multiple times. It was so fun finding ways to get your corpse back, camp a spaun, or survive lower Guk the first time. When a game gets your heart pounding that is the hook at least for me.

I agree with some of the previous post saying that games are getting easier and now every character has to be able to do everything. If you choose to be a warrior maybe it is OK to not be able to heal you self as well and them shoot lightning bolts out of you ass.

I think the ability to easily get through the levels quickly leads to the focus on end game. I know endgame was a part of EQ but all I know is it really was not a huge focus to me or most of the people I hung out in the game. Plus it took me forever to get to max level, granted I am a casual gamer but it took me 2 years to get to max level and had fun the entire time even with the max level increasing every time I got close. Honestly I spend more time focused on obtaining unique items and strange quests that neted me nothing but a few pixels int he end but I had a ball doing it.

Only very recently have a felt a similar feeling and that was playing DayZ. The game has a million problems but running for you life trying to find a weapon just to get wasted by a PK got my heart pounding. I know I am being nostalgic about the past and I agree in the "popping your cherry" theory but DayZ proved to me that it is a feeling that hopefully another game can harness.

Zithax · Dec 17, 2012

James_sl said:
The nostalgia argument is horse shit perpetuated by shitty idiot devs with their heads up their ass that think games back in the day were somehow not as good as the fetid piles of shit they're trying to fling at us now, when nothing could be further from the truth. WoW sucks now because the people behind it had all their dicks simultaneously shrivel up and turn into rough manginas and thus became super afraid to make anything that might even remotely resemble something you might consider an actual game. They come up with these idiot systems like fucking badges and LFR and e-z mode LFD and other stupid horse shit that turns the game into little more than a social fucking experiment, and it's no surprise that the masses start to falter and sway, that their subs start dropping with no end in sight. The sad part is that the rest of the gaming industry can't figure it out, because they've all been listening to these other idiot devs who say things like "PEOPLE QUIT YOUR GAME WHEN THEY DIE THUS MAKING THEM NOT ABLE TO DIE CREATES A BETTER GAMING EXPERIENCE OVERALL!!!!!" (seriously), so the games trying to "improve" upon WoW do so in the completely wrong areas in completely the wrong ways.

Nostalgia? Fuck that shit. Devs are just straight up retarded now is what it is, nothing more. Get pissed that you aren't raiding anymore, I know I am. I raided for over a goddamn decade, and just because some group of FUCKING RETARDS decides that badge gear and skipping instances is more fun for little fuck idiot wonders who want their gear to be PURPLE, it's now no longer worth it at all. Yeah, they'd like you to think you're only remembering things fondly because of Nostalgia(tm), I'm sure.

You are wise beyond your years, my good sir. This industry is just saturated with a bunch of pussies who want to take the safe route of guaranteed returns, I can't stand it. Every single one that comes out has a tiny twist on the same major packaged pile of shit. If you've played one you've played them all. Profits are destroying our society, AND our MMO's. I just don't get it; why they keep developing new piles of shit that are so similar to whats already out there, are they merely trying to capitalize or do they genuinely think they have revolutionary concepts and ideas, then when their shit fails throw their hands up and proclaim WELL I DON'T KNOW THEN WE TRIED EVERYTHING LOL. Why. WHY? It went from a rat race where everybody was proud of what they achieved and became a retard race where everybody gets to achieve everything no matter what. They didn't give us more ways to feel and be unique, they funneled us into the same min/maxed bullshit as everybody else, where no matter how much else exists it doesnt matter because it's not the best in slot. They made tradeskills more complicated and tedious when they should be simpler and used to enhance the game, not some stupid bullshit metagame in of itself. And questhubs, what the FUCK is it with questhubs? Can I get a witness? These games aren't fun anymore, they are mice feeders and when the feed runs out we move on. Just a bunch of superficial bullshit.

Zaphid · Dec 17, 2012

Kreugen_sl said:
Or a quality product that sticks to a proven formula without shitting it up with crappy gimmick "innovations" that hurt more than they help. Like the button smash combat they tried in AOC, or the manual targeting shit tired in various games that was totally pointless, or the group play from GW2 that removes the trinity and replaces it with nothing at all.

Innovation, not always a good idea. Especially when you know it is bad, but push it anyway for the sake of trying to look different.

I'd argue that no trinity is a good thing in GW2 with the nonexsitent lfg system. It's big enough pain in the ass to just find 4 people, regardless of class.

Kreugen · Dec 17, 2012

Lack of LFD is what ensured that I would not sub for a second month of TSW. That and once you finish the quests you've beaten the best part of the game anyway.

Itzena_sl · Dec 17, 2012

James_sl said:
The nostalgia argument is horse shit perpetuated by shitty idiot devs with their heads up their ass that think games back in the day were somehow not as good as the fetid piles of shit they're trying to fling at us now, when nothing could be further from the truth. WoW sucks now because the people behind it had all their dicks simultaneously shrivel up and turn into rough manginas and thus became super afraid to make anything that might even remotely resemble something you might consider an actual game. They come up with these idiot systems like fucking badges and LFR and e-z mode LFD and other stupid horse shit that turns the game into little more than a social fucking experiment, and it's no surprise that the masses start to falter and sway, that their subs start dropping with no end in sight. The sad part is that the rest of the gaming industry can't figure it out, because they've all been listening to these other idiot devs who say things like "PEOPLE QUIT YOUR GAME WHEN THEY DIE THUS MAKING THEM NOT ABLE TO DIE CREATES A BETTER GAMING EXPERIENCE OVERALL!!!!!" (seriously), so the games trying to "improve" upon WoW do so in the completely wrong areas in completely the wrong ways.

Nostalgia? Fuck that shit. Devs are just straight up retarded now is what it is, nothing more. Get pissed that you aren't raiding anymore, I know I am. I raided for over a goddamn decade, and just because some group of FUCKING RETARDS decides that badge gear and skipping instances is more fun for little fuck idiot wonders who want their gear to be PURPLE, it's now no longer worth it at all. Yeah, they'd like you to think you're only remembering things fondly because of Nostalgia(tm), I'm sure.

Hey James, remember when you said that the devs were right about making Cataclysm heroics & raids bollock-achingly tough and then WoW lost millions of paying customers as a direct consequence?

Good times.

James · Dec 17, 2012

Pretty sure they're still losing subs there, slicknuts, probably because they can't think of anything past "MUST HAVE BADGES."

xzi · Dec 17, 2012

I would love for MMO's to get away from leveling as a "progression" system. All anybody has done since BC WoW was rush to max level as fast as they can to try to get in some dungeons and possibly raids. Nobody actually pays any attention at all to any quests, nobody cares what zone they're in aside from the one that has the biggest quest hub, and nobody does any content inbetween really.

It's just boring at this point. There are so many alternate ways to progress in games like this. I like the way Planetside handled levels; as in you get absolutely nothing from leveling aside from a title and an icon to show off on your armor.

Hell, don't even give everyone their main spells. I remember doing Class specific quests that were hard as shit but they were SO rewarding. They don't even have to be uber hard and require end-game progression, just give me something else from quests aside from a plate chest piece with +2 gooder on it. Make the quests matter! I don't know if you guys remember seeing a lock or a paladin with their class epic mounts in Vanilla WoW, but it was a really fucking big deal for a long time to be able to have those. Same with the staff Benediction for priests. Each quest had their own lore too. Of course, not every quest has to have a big epic moment or payoff, but I really wish we had more of quests like these.

I just want my character to be more involved other than logging in, doing some dailies or some PvP, and logging off because that's what I'm accustomed to for the last 4 years with almost every MMO I've played.

One can dream I suppose.

Swagdaddy · Dec 17, 2012

kitsune_sl said:
I think many of you hit the head on the nail with the "cherry popping" metaphor. I consider my first MMO to be Graal, but more properly I guess you could say WoW as I got into the beta of it really early. I think the concept of endgame exists today because the games are designed in such a way. The levels are treated as something you have to do before the 'real game' begins, which I think is bad design to start off with. I never played Anachry online, but my friends did and that game had an absurd amount of leveling content, something which I would like to have, a real sense of constant progression rather than hitting level X and then equipping various colored loot to make you arbitrarily stronger.

I mean, for those who played such MUDS as Aardwolf, I'd love the ability to simply remort at max level, start over and multi-class or w/e. Everything just follows the wow model and it's making me go ZZzZzz...

Graal was sick, sparring ftw.

Hatorade · Dec 17, 2012

Steam, embrace green light games. Currently playing Don't Starve and Defenders Quest. Good times.

Flank_sl · Dec 17, 2012

kitsune_sl said:
I think many of you hit the head on the nail with the "cherry popping" metaphor. I consider my first MMO to be Graal, but more properly I guess you could say WoW as I got into the beta of it really early. I think the concept of endgame exists today because the games are designed in such a way. The levels are treated as something you have to do before the 'real game' begins, which I think is bad design to start off with. I never played Anachry online, but my friends did and that game had an absurd amount of leveling content, something which I would like to have, a real sense of constant progression rather than hitting level X and then equipping various colored loot to make you arbitrarily stronger.

I mean, for those who played such MUDS as Aardwolf, I'd love the ability to simply remort at max level, start over and multi-class or w/e. Everything just follows the wow model and it's making me go ZZzZzz...

Lineage 2 was the first MMO that I actually played for more than a couple of hours. It took the term Asian Grind to the extreme, but I did not know any better. It used a fairly standard levelling system, but it quickly became apparent that no one was ever going to reach the level cap during the life of the current (vanilla) expansion. The funny thing is that the xp grind disappeared at that point. You still had to grind more gear due to a harsh crafting system, but since you did not have the goal of hitting max level it did not really matter how fast you were levelling. You just kept playing and levels gradually came.

Then the first expansion hit and some new content was added. The higher level mobs were buffed and their xp value was greatly increased. The level cap looked possible, although barely. The grind really kicked in. Since there was a goal to aim for you felt the need to really grind for xp, and it took a huge amount of grinding.

Tarrant · Dec 17, 2012

Yeah I haven't played an MMO longer then 3 months aince I left woW to go EQ2, after that I've pretty much been in every major MMO and just skip around waiting for something to grab me and it never has.

Right now I'm waiting for Wildstar to come out, nothing before or after looks good to me.

So in the mean time, steam sales and Borderlands 2 DLC's as they come out.

AngryDwarf · Dec 17, 2012

Kreugen_sl said:
Or a quality product that sticks to a proven formula without shitting it up with crappy gimmick "innovations" that hurt more than they help. Like the button smash combat they tried in AOC, or the manual targeting shit tired in various games that was totally pointless, or the group play from GW2 that removes the trinity and replaces it with nothing at all.

Innovation, not always a good idea. Especially when you know it is bad, but push it anyway for the sake of trying to look different.

So much this. Everyone thinks that people want something "new" or "innovative". But the tried and true methods are tried and true for a reason. I (and I think I'm probably not alone) would absolutely happily play a generic fantasy MMO with nothing innovative as long as it had well done content. And shit, you would think that would be relatively easy to make and sell to a publisher. Yet for some reason no one is doing it.

Furious · Dec 17, 2012

spronk_sl said:
When you have kids make sure you tell them how much better and harder MMOs were back in your day, kids really appreciate old people telling them that kind of stuff

I have tried every MMO out since EQ and if you don't think it was harder in every sense of the word (Longer, higher punishment, frustrating, no maps, no go here icons ect) then i'm not sure what to tell you. Eve is close but none other.

When you die in a new MMO what do you think? If your like me you're like "oh well, a 1 min run". In eq when I died in the bottom of old seb and our rogue LDed I grab my monitor and threw it out of my window. I knew it would be quicker and easier to get a new one then it would be to get my corpse back.

EQ, how I miss you.

xzi · Dec 17, 2012

AngryDwarf_sl said:
So much this. Everyone thinks that people want something "new" or "innovative". But the tried and true methods are tried and true for a reason. I (and I think I'm probably not alone) would absolutely happily play a generic fantasy MMO with nothing innovative as long as it had well done content. And shit, you would think that would be relatively easy to make and sell to a publisher. Yet for some reason no one is doing it.

Everquest is still putting out decent content, with nothing really new or innovative. Go play that.

Nirgon · Dec 17, 2012

Kruegen is going to turn into a panda. I hope that Palladius axe is usable by them.

Otherwise we can just go bury it for ya.

TrollfaceDeux · Dec 17, 2012

still waiting for a sandbox fantasy MMO w/ innovative combat system like TERA. Grinding shit for gear and level is pointless as fuck. Doesn't do shit, only advances you in BG or Dungeons. Outside world is completely irrelevant. One can dream....

Itzena_sl · Dec 17, 2012

James_sl said:
Pretty sure they're still losing subs there, slicknuts, probably because they can't think of anything past "MUST HAVE BADGES."

Nah, subs are back up to over 10 million now.

Viktor · Dec 17, 2012

I think what also factors in is that an MMO launching today has to be pretty well polished. Makes it hard to really do innovative stuff, since the investors want to get paid.

Felonius_sl · Dec 17, 2012

Tarrant_sl said:
Right now I'm waiting for Wildstar to come out, nothing before or after looks good to me.

I got excited because I assumed from the name it was a western mmo, I am disappoint

Troll_sl · Dec 17, 2012

My biggest problem has been finding a good guild to do shit with. After the last one I was in dissolved, I just had a hard time caring enough to join another. And playing MMOs without a good group of people around sucks massive me-dick.

Well, now what?

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