Wheel of Time

Hoss · Mar 17, 2025

Palum said:
Are there any new really ugly non-descript women? That's really the only reason to watch this, for the unattractive mulattos.

As a matter of fact .... there's a new dark one who I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be a man or woman. But now I think it's a girl. And to be clear, not for tranny reasons, just because it's ugly and mousy

TheBeagle said:
How does Min look? In the books she was supposed tobe a smokeshow wearing tight pants with hidden daggers who would always make Lews Therin start humming in the back of Rands mind when she was around.

Maybe lews has yellow fever ......

I'm enjoying it, but I never read the books.

Daidraco · Mar 17, 2025

Hoss said:
I'm enjoying it, but I never read the books.

I think thats the key difference in most shit like this. We've got a few really good shows that wouldnt be here without the books like Game of Thrones, the Expanse and the Witcher - but the creative changes theyve made to those stories really steered every thought and feeling that you would have reading those books .. for better, or.. mostly for the worst. I personally think they should rename them entirely, but that didnt work with Rings of Power so Idk how they could make a better distinction that the creative story does not follow the official story.

Im glad I didnt read or know anything about this series because I feel like I would hate it just as much as others do here. I know a shit ton about tolkien and all of that bullshit and even if they took Rings of Power into a direction where it was a good show, I would still throw shit at the walls because the changes they made make no fucking sense in the greater part of the timeline, or even on the individuals story. Im sure thats here in spades on this show, too. Ignorance is bliss.

Hoss · Mar 17, 2025

From what I know of the books, I never would have finished one. He spent pages describing outfits? I don't know how much of that shit I would have read, but it wouldn't have been much. I'm not the kind of person who can just skip parts of a book and carry on.

My wife read all the books and she likes the show too. It's good to have someone there who can give me the backstory. I still laugh at how beautiful the aes sedai are supposed to be. Particularly when many of them are objectively ugly. Main characters even. It's hard to buy the egwain and rand love story.

OU Ariakas · Mar 17, 2025

Hoss said:
From what I know of the books, I never would have finished one. He spent pages describing outfits? I don't know how much of that shit I would have read, but it wouldn't have been much. I'm not the kind of person who can just skip parts of a book and carry on.

My wife read all the books and she likes the show too. It's good to have someone there who can give me the backstory. I still laugh at how beautiful the aes sedai are supposed to be. Particularly when many of them are objectively ugly. Main characters even. It's hard to buy the egwain and rand love story.

It's weird, there is a great story in it and I got really good at skipping whole paragraphs of descriptive nonsense; but he started to lose the plot around book 8 or 9 and it became a chore to skip all the descriptions of inane shit. Then, he died and Sanderson did a great job of picking it up and condensing a ton of shit into 3 giant final books. It would have taken Jordan another 10 books to finish if he had lived. I think that reading the whole thing now is worth the payoff because it is an epic and fantastic story. This show absolutely cannot do it justice.

Burns · Mar 17, 2025

Daidraco said:
I think thats the key difference in most shit like this. We've got a few really good shows that wouldnt be here without the books like Game of Thrones, the Expanse and the Witcher - but the creative changes theyve made to those stories really steered every thought and feeling that you would have reading those books .. for better, or.. mostly for the worst. I personally think they should rename them entirely, but that didnt work with Rings of Power so Idk how they could make a better distinction that the creative story does not follow the official story.

Im glad I didnt read or know anything about this series because I feel like I would hate it just as much as others do here. I know a shit ton about tolkien and all of that bullshit and even if they took Rings of Power into a direction where it was a good show, I would still throw shit at the walls because the changes they made make no fucking sense in the greater part of the timeline, or even on the individuals story. Im sure thats here in spades on this show, too. Ignorance is bliss.

As far as I remember, both The Expanse and GoT (for the seasons where the books were written) were widely liked by book readers, just like Peter Jackson's movies were liked by LOTR readers. In both cases there was disappointment in some of the plots/characters cut, but they seemed to be mostly acceptable losses, due to the general feel of respect given to the source material. For the Expanse in particular, I remember book readers saying the Naomi and Philip plot lines were weak, even in the books, which lead to the worst season(s) of the show.

This show, on the other hand, like The Witcher, plainly show they do not respect the source material (from reading the opinions of the book readers). The Witcher at least had the lead actor to push the writers to not be total assholes shitting all over the IP for the first season and some of the second. Still, The Witcher went to shit in season 3, even for most non book readers (just like GoT seasons 7 & 8).

Burns · Mar 17, 2025

I watched the first three episodes over the weekend and would rate it about on par with last season, which is not good, but better than season 1 or any Rings of Pwner. It has mostly the same old issues, such as writing men like classic feminine rolls and women like classic masculine rolls while making sure to fit in at least one scene where they reiterate that almost everyone is gay or genderfluid.

Most new characters introduced are still ugly. Since noticing it in the first season, I still find it funny that everyone carries around a full laundry room in their bag of holding, which they use every morning when they get up. If there is any wear to their cloths, in the weeks long treks over land and sea, they also have a tailor, in the bag of holding, to make them something new. They don't carry any baggage on their journeys, so a bag of holding is the only solution.

Other than that, I'm not sure there is a lot to say. Rand is headed to recruit the sand-people because the desert makes the strongest warriors, who are mostly women, obviously. The sand-people woman with Rand thinks all non sand-people are weak and dislikes Rand, so he can earn her respect and all that, but not her love, since she is homosexual... or is she genderfluid, like every warder on the show (What a twist!).

Since the book readers have said Rand gets a haram in the books, I wouldn't be surprised if instead they make it a polycule, or what ever they call it, in the show. Where everyone loves and is married to each other, including the men.

Chinaman889 · Mar 17, 2025

Burns said:
I watched the first three episodes over the weekend and would rate it about on par with last season, which is not good, but better than season 1 or any Rings of Pwner. It has mostly the same old issues, such as writing men like classic feminine rolls and women like classic masculine rolls while making sure to fit in at least one scene where they reiterate that almost everyone is gay or genderfluid.

Most new characters introduced are still ugly. Since noticing it in the first season, I still find it funny that everyone carries around a full laundry room in their bag of holding, which they use every morning when they get up. If there is any wear to their cloths, in the weeks long treks over land and sea, they also have a tailor, in the bag of holding, to make them something new. They don't carry any baggage on their journeys, so a bag of holding is the only solution.

Other than that, I'm not sure there is a lot to say. Rand is headed to recruit the sand-people because the desert makes the strongest warriors, who are mostly women, obviously. The sand-people woman with Rand thinks all non sand-people are weak and dislikes Rand, so he can earn her respect and all that, but not her love, since she is homosexual... or is she genderfluid, like every warder on the show (What a twist!).

Since the book readers have said Rand gets a haram in the books, I wouldn't be surprised if instead they make it a polycule, or what ever they call it, in the show. Where everyone loves and is married to each other, including the men.

I love this clear commentary about the confusing shit that's with this show.

The one change I do like is the overt Elayne/Avi lesbo angle. Shame, they're no where close to the beauty/attractiveness the books have them as.

Runnen · Mar 17, 2025

One good thing I could say about this season (so far) is that it seems to be moving the plot forward at a good pace, instead of plodding slowly with a lot of filler.

In just three episodes, we've established :

- Mat will be a badass once he fully controls the strategy/memories/weapon skills he got from the Horn heroes and Min has already had a vision of Mat in the situation that unlocks that potential.
- Rand's season goal is Callandor, but now he's doing the Car'a'carn sidequest to get the Aiel followers.
- Perrin meets two characters who will be major characters in his own story arc.

The only character whose story is going in a confusing direction is Aviendha who should be in a love/hate relationship with Rand but instead she's barely aware of him except for her job to protect the potential Car'a'carn, and is instead attracted to Elayne. I guess she probably won't end up being who she ends up being later in the books.

The changes to Galad Trakand seem odd because he's supposed to be such a stickler for rules and regulations and very devout that he becomes a power in the Whitecloaks but instead they made him very cocky and using his good looks to get novice chicks (which was funny but there's already Gawyn for that so it seems odd to have two characters almost act the same). But he's not the most important character in the story so I guess it's not a big deal.

What I'm most curious about is why Asmodean isn't mentioned as being released from the Bore. We have Lanfear, Mohgedien, Rahvin, Sammael, Semirhaghe and Grendael who have been mentioned. Asmodean plays a major role in Rand's development and I wonder if they're going to have someone else play that part... or maybe he's just not part of the current Forsaken plots and he wasn't mentioned, guess we'll see.

Deathwing · Mar 17, 2025

Plot and good pace? Talk about disrespecting the source material!

Runnen · Mar 17, 2025

Deathwing said:
Plot and good pace? Talk about disrespecting the source material!

I've read all the books, I am aware of several major deviations/shortcuts between the show and the source material, but to be fair the source material would be the most boring show ever. If you remove all the descriptions of gowns, the hair-pulling and the made-up swearwords, it would go from 14 books to maybe 6.

I agree with the criticism about the casting being completely stupid for the most part (a lot of ugly people, and some downright bad actors), I thought season 1 was quite bad, but overall season 2 and so far 3 are big improvements and it's following the main plot of the books so I can't say I'm unhappy with it as it's currently going.

The only thing that really annoys me in this season is Min. She's not at all like how I pictured her, she's extremely unlikable, the actress seemingly has only one emotion to display, and I hate that they have her in this stupid novice business suit instead of robes like every other girl there. She's supposed to be a spy but she stands out like a sore thumb. I wouldn't mind at all if she gets recast between seasons like they did with Mat's first actor.

As it is now, it's not a great show but it's definitely watchable if you like fantasy settings but it's probably a bit tough to follow for people who never read the books (so many jargon words not explained much if at all). My wife likes it but has never read any of it so I often have to pause and explain some stuff that's better explained in the books (but then, if you explain every little tihng, it becomes a exposition fest and that's boring so it's a tough choice I suppose).

Zindan · Mar 17, 2025

Hoss said:
From what I know of the books, I never would have finished one. He spent pages describing outfits? I don't know how much of that shit I would have read, but it wouldn't have been much. I'm not the kind of person who can just skip parts of a book and carry on.

My wife read all the books and she likes the show too. It's good to have someone there who can give me the backstory. I still laugh at how beautiful the aes sedai are supposed to be. Particularly when many of them are objectively ugly. Main characters even. It's hard to buy the egwain and rand love story.

That is a huge exaggeration. His descriptions of clothing/armor is like from a historian, so its pretty detailed but not overwhelming. He was very good at giving the world/places/people a sense of history, imo.

Zindan · Mar 17, 2025

Runnen said:
One good thing I could say about this season (so far) is that it seems to be moving the plot forward at a good pace, instead of plodding slowly with a lot of filler.

In just three episodes, we've established :

- Mat will be a badass once he fully controls the strategy/memories/weapon skills he got from the Horn heroes and Min has already had a vision of Mat in the situation that unlocks that potential.
- Rand's season goal is Callandor, but now he's doing the Car'a'carn sidequest to get the Aiel followers.
- Perrin meets two characters who will be major characters in his own story arc.

The only character whose story is going in a confusing direction is Aviendha who should be in a love/hate relationship with Rand but instead she's barely aware of him except for her job to protect the potential Car'a'carn, and is instead attracted to Elayne. I guess she probably won't end up being who she ends up being later in the books.

The changes to Galad Trakand seem odd because he's supposed to be such a stickler for rules and regulations and very devout that he becomes a power in the Whitecloaks but instead they made him very cocky and using his good looks to get novice chicks (which was funny but there's already Gawyn for that so it seems odd to have two characters almost act the same). But he's not the most important character in the story so I guess it's not a big deal.

What I'm most curious about is why Asmodean isn't mentioned as being released from the Bore. We have Lanfear, Mohgedien, Rahvin, Sammael, Semirhaghe and Grendael who have been mentioned. Asmodean plays a major role in Rand's development and I wonder if they're going to have someone else play that part... or maybe he's just not part of the current Forsaken plots and he wasn't mentioned, guess we'll see.

Are you sure you've read the books, or were you just bored of them? I haven't watched, nor will I watch this PoS show, but based on your description of where things are plot wise, I am guessing Rand hasn't went through the Rings yet (that is a huge moment for the plot for various reasons), so Asmo wouldn't be mentioned at all by anyone. Not trying to be a book nerd, but Book 4 was my favorite and I think it broadened the story a lot from the first 3 (which were all like self contained novels).

Daidraco · Mar 18, 2025

Runnen said:
As it is now, it's not a great show but it's definitely watchable if you like fantasy settings but it's probably a bit tough to follow for people who never read the books (so many jargon words not explained much if at all). My wife likes it but has never read any of it so I often have to pause and explain some stuff that's better explained in the books (but then, if you explain every little tihng, it becomes a exposition fest and that's boring so it's a tough choice I suppose).

The words and phrases with no context or anything bother me a bit. Especially when I google them and instead of getting a straight forward answer, it leads me into the whole history of the fucking ancient language. Like bro, I just want to know what the fuck Matt said before he fought the two princes (for example). Maybe I missed it or whatever. But ffs - shit like that annoys the piss out of me.

Hoss · Mar 18, 2025

Runnen said:
- Mat will be a badass once he fully controls the strategy/memories/weapon skills he got from the Horn heroes and Min has already had a vision of Mat in the situation that unlocks that potential.

I thought that came from an object he found. Like a coin or something. Didn't he only win the fight against the princes because he bet them 2 marks each?

Nester · Mar 18, 2025

S3 is an improvement on S02 which was an improvement the steaming pile of shit that was s01

it still has lots to improve but the trend is in the right direction. I enjoy the Aiel parts thus far,

Runnen · Mar 18, 2025

Zindan said:
Are you sure you've read the books, or were you just bored of them?

I loved books 1 to 4, thought 5 to 7 were decent enough. I mean at this point you're engaged in the story so you wanna know how it goes... books 8 to 10 were a huge slog and remain a big blur to this day in my mind, hard to tell one from the other really... of course there's good stuff sprinkled here and there even in those, but I guarantee no one would be talking about Wheel of Time if the first books had been as boring as those. Then Sanderson picked up the books from 11 to 14 and those were great again because he really picked up the pace. Just my opinion of course but from what I've seen in various places it seems to be the general consensus.

Zindan · Mar 18, 2025

Hoss said:
I thought that came from an object he found. Like a coin or something. Didn't he only win the fight against the princes because he bet them 2 marks each?

As far as I remember, he got the memories when he asked the Foxes/Snakes to fill in the holes in his own memories, which happens in Tear (book 4). Had nothing to do with the Horn, so I guess the show is taking liberties again.

Zindan · Mar 18, 2025

Runnen said:
I loved books 1 to 4, thought 5 to 7 were decent enough. I mean at this point you're engaged in the story so you wanna know how it goes... books 8 to 10 were a huge slog and remain a big blur to this day in my mind, hard to tell one from the other really... of course there's good stuff sprinkled here and there even in those, but I guarantee no one would be talking about Wheel of Time if the first books had been as boring as those. Then Sanderson picked up the books from 11 to 14 and those were great again because he really picked up the pace. Just my opinion of course but from what I've seen in various places it seems to be the general consensus.

Based on what you mentioned about the first 3 episodes of this newest Season, I am assuming Rand hasn't gotten to Tear (the Stone) yet... but Avi is in the show and knows Elayne? Sounds like a mess. If they follow(ed) the books, then Asmo won't be "known" for a long time yet (end of Book 4).

Edit: If only a JP anime studio got the rights to WoT, a studio like ufotable or Mappa.

Runnen · Mar 18, 2025

Zindan said:
As far as I remember, he got the memories when he asked the Foxes/Snakes to fill in the holes in his own memories, which happens in Tear (book 4). Had nothing to do with the Horn, so I guess the show is taking liberties again.

Since ShowMat hasn't been to the snakes and foxes yet and is speaking a tongue unknown to him and is suddenly very proficient at fighting, it appears the memories are from blowing into the Horn / summoning the Heroes. I think what the show will do is make the snakes and foxes event give him the ability to expand and give better control over those inherited abilities. Also that's where he gets his wicked polearm.

Hoss · Mar 18, 2025

Runnen said:
Since ShowMat hasn't been to the snakes and foxes yet and is speaking a tongue unknown to him and is suddenly very proficient at fighting, it appears the memories are from blowing into the Horn / summoning the Heroes. I think what the show will do is make the snakes and foxes event give him the ability to expand and give better control over those inherited abilities. Also that's where he gets his wicked polearm.

Oh shit, I thought it did show him find the object in the library and get his wishes from the snakes and foxes. I thought he was just saying it was the horn because he didn't want anyone to know he found that portal. I guess my wife just told me about it and my imagination filled in the rest?

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Wheel of Time

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