Wheel of Time

Zindan

Zindan

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Runnen said:
Since ShowMat hasn't been to the snakes and foxes yet and is speaking a tongue unknown to him and is suddenly very proficient at fighting, it appears the memories are from blowing into the Horn / summoning the Heroes. I think what the show will do is make the snakes and foxes event give him the ability to expand and give better control over those inherited abilities. Also that's where he gets his wicked polearm.
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Hm, is that what the show has stated though? I do believe Mat spoke the Old Tongue prior to meeting the Foxes/Snakes, but also prior to blowing the Horn at Falme. I always assumed it was part of him being Ta'veren, then again everything after Falme was kinda of a mess for him. Hm, now that I start to think about it, he was speaking the Old Tongue fluently when the Aes Sedai broke his connection to that Dagger (has that happened in the show yet?).
 
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Lenardo

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If I remember correctly the dagger created memory holes. The area where rand and co are from are excellent fighters(have not watched the series) with mat's father being the best in the region at the staff, which is how mat fights so well. Being ta'veren means past lives so mat is tapping into it as well It is not until the mirror in the waste when he meets the foxes that they unlock/merge his memories with his past lives and hang him on the spear/staff which he takes after. And everyone from that area spoke old tongue.
 
Voldeth

Voldeth

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From a book perspective there is an established understanding that Mat has deep connection to his past lives and the impact of the dagger & his encounter with the foxes just helps unlock that. He actually speaks some of the old tongue in book 1 prior to being exposed to the dagger. You also have things like his reaction after he's healed (he shouts at Siuan that he's a mighty warrior of Manetheren, Hawking seems to recognize him the first time they meet, he has a feeling that he's already been in the coordinators when he first goes to visit the snakes, etc). While I find that Sanderson did an admirable job at finishing things up his Mat was absolute garbage and there was very little pay off for what is otherwise one of the more interesting characters throughout.

The show, while atrocious and terribly cast, isn't far off in depicting Mat's connection and I don't think it's correct to say that it's linked to the horn at all.
 
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Daidraco

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Voldeth said:
From a book perspective there is an established understanding that Mat has deep connection to his past lives and the impact of the dagger & his encounter with the foxes just helps unlock that. He actually speaks some of the old tongue in book 1 prior to being exposed to the dagger. You also have things like his reaction after he's healed (he shouts at Siuan that he's a mighty warrior of Manetheren, Hawking seems to recognize him the first time they meet, he has a feeling that he's already been in the coordinators when he first goes to visit the snakes, etc). While I find that Sanderson did an admirable job at finishing things up his Mat was absolute garbage and there was very little pay off for what is otherwise one of the more interesting characters throughout.

The show, while atrocious and terribly cast, isn't far off in depicting Mat's connection and I don't think it's correct to say that it's linked to the horn at all.
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I thought the show said it was because of the horn? Like it unlocked all of his ancestors and he's some descendent of a king or something and thats why he can speak it. Tf if I know what he ever says when he uses the language, though. I have no idea if this is canon to the book or not.
 
Voldeth

Voldeth

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Daidraco said:
I thought the show said it was because of the horn? Like it unlocked all of his ancestors and he's some descendent of a king or something and thats why he can speak it. Tf if I know what he ever says when he uses the language, though. I have no idea if this is canon to the book or not.
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Did they? I'll readily admit i skip a lot of parts in the show but I don't recall that. If so, it's not canon to the books as the horn does not have that effect.
 
Sterling

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Lenardo said:
If I remember correctly the dagger created memory holes. The area where rand and co are from are excellent fighters(have not watched the series) with mat's father being the best in the region at the staff, which is how mat fights so well. Being ta'veren means past lives so mat is tapping into it as well It is not until the mirror in the waste when he meets the foxes that they unlock/merge his memories with his past lives and hang him on the spear/staff which he takes after. And everyone from that area spoke old tongue.
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The dagger's taint is what caused the memory holes. It was the 2nd doorway, not the one in Tear that he got the memories from though.
 
Hoss

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Daidraco said:
I thought the show said it was because of the horn? Like it unlocked all of his ancestors and he's some descendent of a king or something and thats why he can speak it. Tf if I know what he ever says when he uses the language, though. I have no idea if this is canon to the book or not.
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I think mat is implying it because he's hiding the real source. I'm just not sure why he's hiding the real source. When I thought it came from an aes sedai artifact, I assumed he was hiding that he was in the library. Maybe he just doesn't want to be taveren and is hiding that.
 
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Droigan

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Daidraco said:
I thought the show said it was because of the horn? Like it unlocked all of his ancestors and he's some descendent of a king or something and thats why he can speak it. Tf if I know what he ever says when he uses the language, though. I have no idea if this is canon to the book or not.
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In the book, Mat, Perrin and Rand all have their "things" as well as being Ta'veren

Rand being the obvious one, growing into the power.

Perrin slowly being able to be able to talk to wolves and expanding his powers in the dreamworld (he pretty much has the innate ability once he discovers it, it's only a slow progression because he denies it/tries to push it away)

Guess I will spoiler this if someone hasn't read the books but are watching the show.

Mat is the most interesting as his growth is gradual and expand into different things. He starts off with speaking the language, which is first dismissed as being close to the "old blood". Once he gets the dagger, it doesn't do much other than make him sick. He continues to speak the old language here and there, mostly in battle scenarios, so it's obvious it means something since it is only him that does it, but he doesn't do it consciously. Even after he blows the horn.

He goes to the white tower and they remove the link with the dagger, but he is still just Mat. It's after he has the dagger removed he fights the two princes with a quarterstaff and wins. He then starts gambling a little bit and he starts noticing he is "lucky", but again, nothing that is really mentioned being tied to any power. It's just a slow series of events that keep repeating so you understand something is going on with him.

It's only when he goes into the first portal in Tear where he first gains some "powers" in terms of starting to remember more of the old language/can innately understand it, and his luck starts being described more as a power. But it's still a "mystery" and he starts denying his abilities similarly to Perrin. Then he enters the portals again in the waste and he starts his full power arch so to speak. Innate luck, battle master prodigy. Basically the combined knowledge of thousands of years of soldiering/battle generals.
 
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Mahes

Mahes

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Best Episode so far. That was at least interesting. How does a person come back from having lived 1000's of their own death? I guess you would almost become numb to the actions or go insane. She might want to figure out a way to avoid the Lanfear. It will most likely kind of suck to have to experience death once, but a thousand times..

I hope they kind of go back into how Rand got Moraine out. They did a skip on that part.
 
Chinaman889

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Not sure if this spoilerish... with regards to what the 3 main male characters are supposed to represent (mostly) figure wise.

Rand = Jesus
Matt = Odin
Perrin = Thor
 
Seananigans

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To lead is to know your blood, to understand where you came from.

*proceeds to hop back in time generation by generation*

*a few moments later...*

"Ah yes, my direct ancestor is a faggot with a black man for a lover. Perfectly reasonable, not at all non-sensical."

No wonder Muradin is tearing his eyes out. These fucking woke faggots, I swear.
 
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wamphyr

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Don't let the antiwoke derangement syndrome blind you to the fact that this episode (S03EP04) was an amazing episode, the best episode of the series and an amazing work of television storytelling.

Fuck, I am amazed at how good it was, how can the same people that absolutely butchered all the other episodes make such a good one. Now really, the entire series is puke-shit-boring, two cool scenes in two seasons, not one good episode from start to finish, and then, bam, this one, a really, really good episode.
 
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Chinaman889

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wamphyr said:
Don't let the antiwoke derangement syndrome blind you to the fact that this episode (S03EP04) was an amazing episode, the best episode of the series and an amazing work of television storytelling.

Fuck, I am amazed at how good it was, how can the same people that absolutely butchered all the other episodes make such a good one. Now really, the entire series is puke-shit-boring, two cool scenes in two seasons, not one good episode from start to finish, and then, bam, this one, a really, really good episode.
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Sounds like they got the Aiel History Flashback shit done right.

I might check this out - this one episode only.
 
Chinaman889

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I can't believe they DEI cast Aviendha with a black woman. She fucking stands out as opposed to the other Aiel.

i haven't watched the other episodes, is there some kind of hint that Aviendha is some ugly abandoned kid the Aiel saved?

I can't suspend belief.
 
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Burns

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It's a bit bizarro world. Usually when you are watching a good show and an episode comes along that doesn't match the rest, you say "well, they can't all be bangers," but instead, for this mediocre show it's more akin to "well, they cant all be stinkers."

Biggest funny moment/nitpick was imagining that the writers don't know how ancestry works when they depict a seemingly fully committed gay ancestor. I guess he had a twin in the back with the tree and the magic got confused on which DNA to recall memories from.
 
Tmac

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Watching 50 year old women do physical combat is painful to my imagination.

These women haven't sprinted in the last 20 years, much less thrown a punch, or moved their arms in a "magical fashion". It's all so gross.
 
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Chinaman889

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Pretty good the Aiel flashback. At least they didn't fuck it up aside from the unnecessary gay stuff.

I read they've skipped over the stone of tear and just jumped over to the Aiel stuff?

If so, that actually would be a bad ass thing with Rand leading the Aiel to take the stone of tear and Callandor.
 
Dr.Retarded

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Chinaman889 said:
Pretty good the Aiel flashback. At least they didn't fuck it up aside from the unnecessary gay stuff.

I read they've skipped over the stone of tear and just jumped over to the Aiel stuff?

If so, that actually would be a bad ass thing with Rand leading the Aiel to take the stone of tear and Callandor.
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Wait, are the Aiel gay now? Is that why they only use spears and never touch the sword?
 
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