Why do men keep putting me in the Girlfriend-zone?
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Tanoomba
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OK, break's over.
"He continuously expands his previous points", he says. Guess what? The reason why it's been pointed out that I apparently spend 10 hours writing this stuff is because when somebody posts something relevant or insightful, I acknowledge it. I give it the benefit of the doubt and then either explain how it's not as airtight a defense as it is believed to be or I present a counter-argument. Guess how many times my points have been given that same benefit of the doubt? Guess how many people address the arguments I raise and explain to me why they don't work? You've posted some good stuff, but you have yet to address the points I raise. You just ignore my counter-argument and move on to the next study or article, most of the time one which you don't realize supports my point of view (which is one of the reasons I haven't been going on my own scientific study scavenger hunts) or one you're misinterpreting or one you will later contradict when it is convenient to do so. So if it seems like I'm sticking to the same points, it's because nobody has said why their wrong yet and I think somebody should. Shit, you guys have a much bigger team than me, you should be blowing my counter-points out of the water before I'm able to hit "refresh". What do I get instead? Gay jokes. Oh, but it's me that's not providing enough "evidence" for my points...
Tell me, what points did I make that you think should be backed up with "evidence"?
Is it that sexism still exists in this world? Everyone, including those on "your" side, has accepted this already.
Is it that feminism wants sexism to stop? I know there are different interpretations of feminism and different goals for different groups, but is anybody going to suggest that any feminists anywhere want sexism to continue?
(If you answered "No" to both of those that's already a good enough reason for feminism to exist, BTW)
Is it that women are sexually objectified? You provided proof of that, I imagine it would be pretty redundant if I gave any more.
Is it that men and women can be friends? I doubt this is what you mean, since you personally have abstained from the "friend" debate in favor of the "feminism" debate (I'm guessing you might even have a female friend or two), but several men on this thread have admitted they have female friends. Fuck everything else (which I have generously humored anyway), if some men and women are friends then it can not be said that "men and women can't be friends".
What did I say that I haven't taken responsibility for? Enlighten me.
Oh, and try to avoid using phrases like "female negativity" this time, because they make you sound like an idiot, which I know you aren't.
Sorry I hurt your feelings. If it makes you feel better, I went back and read the whole thing. Know what I learned? That it's wrong to make assumptions about other people. Other than that, "Lesbian pretending to be unattractive awkward male has trouble picking up women" is not the argument-ender you thought it was, sorry.
Really? Really? What about your lovely bar graphs about how much it sucks to be a male? I picked those apart point by point, and showed you logically and with evidence why they meant nothing. Did you humble yourself and admit that your little blue bars didn't actually make the point you wanted to make in the end? Did you accede that statistics without context mean nothing? No, you pretended the whole thing never happened. They have a term for that... what was it again... oh, why isn't it coming back to oh yeah CONFIRMATION BIAS.
"He continuously expands his previous points", he says. Guess what? The reason why it's been pointed out that I apparently spend 10 hours writing this stuff is because when somebody posts something relevant or insightful, I acknowledge it. I give it the benefit of the doubt and then either explain how it's not as airtight a defense as it is believed to be or I present a counter-argument. Guess how many times my points have been given that same benefit of the doubt? Guess how many people address the arguments I raise and explain to me why they don't work? You've posted some good stuff, but you have yet to address the points I raise. You just ignore my counter-argument and move on to the next study or article, most of the time one which you don't realize supports my point of view (which is one of the reasons I haven't been going on my own scientific study scavenger hunts) or one you're misinterpreting or one you will later contradict when it is convenient to do so. So if it seems like I'm sticking to the same points, it's because nobody has said why their wrong yet and I think somebody should. Shit, you guys have a much bigger team than me, you should be blowing my counter-points out of the water before I'm able to hit "refresh". What do I get instead? Gay jokes. Oh, but it's me that's not providing enough "evidence" for my points...
Tell me, what points did I make that you think should be backed up with "evidence"?
Is it that sexism still exists in this world? Everyone, including those on "your" side, has accepted this already.
Is it that feminism wants sexism to stop? I know there are different interpretations of feminism and different goals for different groups, but is anybody going to suggest that any feminists anywhere want sexism to continue?
(If you answered "No" to both of those that's already a good enough reason for feminism to exist, BTW)
Is it that women are sexually objectified? You provided proof of that, I imagine it would be pretty redundant if I gave any more.
Is it that men and women can be friends? I doubt this is what you mean, since you personally have abstained from the "friend" debate in favor of the "feminism" debate (I'm guessing you might even have a female friend or two), but several men on this thread have admitted they have female friends. Fuck everything else (which I have generously humored anyway), if some men and women are friends then it can not be said that "men and women can't be friends".
What did I say that I haven't taken responsibility for? Enlighten me.
Oh, and try to avoid using phrases like "female negativity" this time, because they make you sound like an idiot, which I know you aren't.
Tanoomba
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Tanoomba
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TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Holy shit, did that make you explode?
lol the chart shit. Do you want to go back and check it out again? I am pretty sure you pulled a strawman.
I don't respond to your counterargument because it's just fucking opinions and projection of your desire to defend what you hold dear. I've been through that road and it's fucking waste of time. I am more interested in debating sociology, psychology, and gender studies because I wish to know more about balance of power between men and womenbased on reliable evidence and factsor otherwise I risk begging the question. I don't take fucking short cuts and jump the shark because I see something I don't fucking like or find sexist. I don't believe in morality. I don't believe in equality. I don't believe in any of these shit. Fuck these abstract bullshit. These are not something scholars play with. It's fucking waste of time unless you are philosophy major.
Why won't you fucking man up about how full of shit you are for trying to play victims for those who can't fucking handle their sexuality?
This discourse is meaningless as long as you drum up victimhood. Complexity of sexual discourse is beyond your comprehension, unfortunately, judging by how you failed to understand value of female sexuality and the roles it plays in slut shaming and objectification. And of course, feminism and their attempt to readjust value of female sexuality in their favour.
If you are naive enough to think that we are beyond our biological attraction and human psychology, and our rational responses to our biology, you are free to do so. You are, after all, a free thinker....?
And indeed, it appears that it is a symptom.http://www.zurinstitute.com/victim_psychology.html
Tanoomba
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Really? So this is where you're gonna stick to your guns? That whole chart was a joke and you know it (feminism is stoopid because LOOK LOOK more mans is dead), I call you on it and you're gonna pretend like I'm the one not presenting a valid argument? Sorry bro, you can't just call "Strawman! Strawman!" every time someone explains why your "evidence" is shit. If you're claiming I'm misrepresenting your position, tell me how.
How did I replace your position with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition?
Your position was "Look at these numbers".
My response was "Statistics mean nothing without context.", and I proceeded to provide just that.
Maybe some bros you know assume you know what you're talking about when you pull out the old "strawman" accusation, but I'm afraid you're gonna have to back that up.
Here's another question I'd love for you to give me an honest answer to, really:Do you disagree that statistics mean nothing out of context?Or are you gonna "I don't know" your way out of this one too?
Because, as I've already stated repeatedly, I've never victimized female sexuality. Ever. Female sexuality is awesome.
You know, I think you write something and you're so happy with how it sounds in your head you don't realize how little sense it makes.
What's your definition of "female sexuality"? Is that like "female negativity"? I'm not making fun of you, I want to know.
Because to me, "female sexuality" is behavior of a sexual nature exhibited by females.
Conversely, it could be considered characteristics of a sexual nature possessed by females.
I have never portrayed either female sexual behavior or female sexual characteristics in a negative light, nor have I made either a "victim". Behavior can't be a "victim". Characteristics can't be a "victim". Sexuality itself can't be a "victim".
Do you use intentionally vague terms to make it harder for people to contradict you? I suppose it's possible you're just not very good at picking your words.
Oh, isn't that cute. An article about victim culture. And you were just talking about how I was "victimizing female sexuality" so it's totally apt and clever! I skimmed over it looking for where it said women should stop complaining about being constantly sexually objectified, but I must have missed it. I did catch "The Challenge" on the bottom, though:
Fucking wow. This "challenge" might as well be called the feminist manifesto.
Remember when I mentioned how feminism is trying to change attitudes in society with the eventual goal of shifting generally accepted behavior to something that doesn't alienate quite so many people? No of course not, you couldn't concentrate over your own voice yelling "Strawman!" I'm not saying men are bad guys, I've never said that. I'm not saying women are victims, I've never said that. But the way women are sexually objectified, even if it has a historical justification, is obsolete. By looking at the social, economic, political and cultural context of today, we realize there is no practical purpose in continuing to perpetuate the notion of "female as sexual object", and that in fact continuing to do so has a negative effect on many people, including males. Therefore, feminism is trying to initiate a shift in how women are viewed, in order for them tostopbeing seen as "the victim".
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Why are you here, making so many verbose and utterly stupid points?
Why are you not trying to get laid right now? Are you 15?
Go out, attempt to get laid. Fail, and come back and post about in the Girls Who Broke Your Heart thread.
I Haven't read like more than half a paragraph of this entire thread, stop fucking around and being a dip shit trying to have internet battles, which cannot be won by default.
You're a dumb inexperienced kid, who got brain washed by girls whose opinions you've mistaken for being interesting, when really you've suppressed your latent desire to fuck them. You did this socially because you unconsciously wanted to Trojan Horse the girls, thinking the back door of social etiquette is superior to the blunt simple method of being forthright (also you can avoid rejection easier). Of course you got sucked up into it, and now you've convinced yourself, despite your most basic primitive instinct, that any of what you think you're championing right has any import at all. You are wasting your time, so. I challenge you.
I challenge you to stop fucking around here and progress to the next phase.
In however a fashion you want to, show attraction to the opposite sex. Attempt to court one, and present us with the results.
Rickshaw this thread, or resurrect an ancient one, bronze and leave it their for every young emasculated boy to come across later and learn from.
We need not re invite the wheel for every misguided lamb that come are way.
This is the last time I'm going to show you the secret pipe to level 8 in the Mushroom Kingdom.
Why are you not trying to get laid right now? Are you 15?
Go out, attempt to get laid. Fail, and come back and post about in the Girls Who Broke Your Heart thread.
I Haven't read like more than half a paragraph of this entire thread, stop fucking around and being a dip shit trying to have internet battles, which cannot be won by default.
You're a dumb inexperienced kid, who got brain washed by girls whose opinions you've mistaken for being interesting, when really you've suppressed your latent desire to fuck them. You did this socially because you unconsciously wanted to Trojan Horse the girls, thinking the back door of social etiquette is superior to the blunt simple method of being forthright (also you can avoid rejection easier). Of course you got sucked up into it, and now you've convinced yourself, despite your most basic primitive instinct, that any of what you think you're championing right has any import at all. You are wasting your time, so. I challenge you.
I challenge you to stop fucking around here and progress to the next phase.
In however a fashion you want to, show attraction to the opposite sex. Attempt to court one, and present us with the results.
Rickshaw this thread, or resurrect an ancient one, bronze and leave it their for every young emasculated boy to come across later and learn from.
We need not re invite the wheel for every misguided lamb that come are way.
This is the last time I'm going to show you the secret pipe to level 8 in the Mushroom Kingdom.
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Ok.
Tanoomba's Shitty Article_sl said:
Tanoomba_sl said:
Nope. My position was, "No, feminism is a hypocritical word."
And it had nothing to do with my point.
You couldn't understand it & ranted about something completely different. Not my fault? Should have asked for clarification before ranting about some random shit?
Irrelevant.
You don't understand what I mean by victimization of female sexuality...do you? You portray women as the victim because of their sex....Tanoomba_sl said:
"So yeah, these are attitudes women have to face today and no, it's not a two-way street. You can't say that men face the same thing because they don't. Guys don't get "creeped on" on the bus, they're not instantly objectified and judged by appearance by everyone they meet, they don't have to "prove themselves" as being strong despite their gender."
"Pretty much every girl is being "sized up" by every guy who will see her all day, every day, whereas girls are not "sizing up" every random guy they see and, even if they were, they're certainly not leering or creeping."
"So girls should just suck it up and accept that, for as long as they are considered attractive by society at large, they will be targeted by strangers on a regular basis who will invade their personal space and make them feel uncomfortable."
"See, unlike men, she can't choose not to play this game. No matter what she does, she will be judged as a failure as a sexual being because we insist that women have to be attractive to have value."
I guess I should say, "Same to you~"Tanoomba_sl said:
Attitudes to which people approach each gender's sexuality? This link should help you to understand..."changing" sexuality.
sexuality
sex?u?al?i?ty
[sek-shoo-al-i-tee or, esp. British, seks-yoo-]
noun
2. recognition of or emphasis upon sexual matters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_revolution
EXAMPLE:The revolution was recognized by profound shifts in the attitudes onwomen's sexualityand homosexuality, and the freedom of sexual expression.
Ok. Look above. Don't want to engage in "HE SAID SHE SAID" bullshit.
Yes you didn't. Because I never talked about it either.
This is how you stoop to the level of your previous opponents.
Yes, and I've constantly demonstrated that is not a real deal and its goals and policies are quite spectacularly off the mark.
This is how you stoop to the level of your previous opponents.
Not really. Check my sources again?
There is no practical purpose? Are you serious about that statement? I strongly urge you to rethink.
Thanks for recognizing that men suffer--too.
Yes.
Rape Culture
Domestic Violence
and "Slut Walk."
Eomer
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I realize, I just took issue with that specific statement because it's so completely false. There are plenty of "run of the mill every day guys" that don't have a whole lot more going for them than the guy they are standing beside, but are absolutely swimming in pussy because for whatever reason they just happen to have the female mind meld shit going on.
Good for them I say.
iannis
Musty Nester
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That's mostly a numbers game, I think.
I know a guy who will fuck absolutely anything. He's not a slug, but he's nothing special either. At this point I think he's got 3 or 4 semi-reliable hook ups. Enough that if he wants to get laid this weekend, one of them is probably in a similar mood, and the odds are good that he'll get his dick wet.
But the amount of time, money, and effort he invests in finding these women. Obviously at least he thinks it's worth it. I guess it's just a hobby for some guys. I've told him before he'd make out cheaper with escorts and he said, "Yeah but that's not the same."
I know a guy who will fuck absolutely anything. He's not a slug, but he's nothing special either. At this point I think he's got 3 or 4 semi-reliable hook ups. Enough that if he wants to get laid this weekend, one of them is probably in a similar mood, and the odds are good that he'll get his dick wet.
But the amount of time, money, and effort he invests in finding these women. Obviously at least he thinks it's worth it. I guess it's just a hobby for some guys. I've told him before he'd make out cheaper with escorts and he said, "Yeah but that's not the same."
Tanoomba
ジョーディーすれいやー
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Hey asshole.
I know "talking out of your ass" is a sacred tradition in the ol' boys' club, but that shit doesn't work on me.
If you're too lazy to read what was mentioned earlier, I'm not going to repeat it for you, except to say that every one of your assumptions about me is wrong.
Want proof? Read the thread.
Otherwise, take your condescending, based on nothing bullshit and shove it up your ass.
I'll happily humor anybody who has an actual point to make, but I'm under no obligation to pretend any of this brand of self-important stupidity is worth a second more of my time.
Famm
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So you're out to reverse thousands of years of evolutionary biology with....political activism? Let me know how that works out for you.
Tanoomba
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What does that have to do with your charts?
If your points need to be clarified to be understandable, they're not very good points.
Hey Dodgy McQuestiondodge, if it was irrelevant you would have had no problem answering it. However, you know damn well that your answer will weaken your argument. Instead of pointing out which particular fallacy I'm supposedly demonstrating by pointing this out, why don't you just answer the question?
Do you disagree that statistics mean nothing out of context?
Here's why I don't buy into your "victimization" bullshit: It implies a "bad guy". There is no "bad guy" here, so using the word "victimization" distorts the point feminists are trying to make. It's a classic straw man, if you will. I think you've heard the term.
Besides, men are "victims" of sexism too. They are held to unrealistic ideals of what "men" should be like, and feminism is against that.
Pointing out that women have to face challenges men don't have to is not making women "victims".
Pointing out that men have certain advantages women don't is not making women "victims".[/quote]
All right, let's try putting "female" in there: "recognition or emphasis upon female sexual matters".
Hmmm... did I ever say that the recognition or emphasis upon female sexual matters was a negative thing?
Did I ever say that the recognition or emphasis upon female sexual matters was a victim?
Words matter.
Let's do a little experiment here:
The revolution was recognized by profound shifts in the attitudes onwomen's sexual behavior/characteristicsand homosexuality, and the freedom of sexual expression.
The revolution was recognized by profound shifts in the attitudes onthe recognition or emphasis upon female sexual mattersand homosexuality, and the freedom of sexual expression.
Ummm, yeah, sorry to break it to you but they were working from my definition.
By pointing out when they're using vague and meaningless terms? I'll stop doing it when you stop using vague and meaningless terms.
At best, you have shown how harmful things have been done in the name of "feminism", and I've acknowledged that.
You haven't come close to proving that its goals are off the mark, nor have you demonstrated any real understanding of what its goals are.
I do appreciate that you're pointing out that the other anti-feminists here have been doing a pretty shitty job.
Which ones? Your sources, to the best of my recollection, explained very well how it came to be that women are sexually objectified. I don't remember seeing anywhere why this is necessary today, but I'll be happy to re-check one of your sources if you think I missed something.
Guess what? Men and women are going to get together and fuck regardless of whether beer commercials show tits. So yeah, there is no practical purpose in continuing to perpetuate the notion of "female as sexual object".
I always have. And so does feminism.
Now you're just being a jerk.
Are you cool with rape? With domestic violence? With women being called shamed for their sexuality?
If so (which I doubt), you're a monster.
If not, why put so much effort in dismissing people who are trying to reduce these problems?
Tanoomba
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Ummm... where have you been? Pretty much every social development of the last 40 years has gone against thousands of years of evolutionary biology, so it's working out pretty well, thanks.
rhinohelix
Dental Dammer
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It's happened; whether its "working out pretty well" is an entirely different debate.