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Kolohe
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If that. You can build a drone in your garage that could carry a small explosive device now. If you just wanted to spread terrorism. All you need is an iphone for navigation plotting.
It's crazy how easy this is, actually. Pretty scary.

Took me less than 2 months to learn how to build one that could fly 30 miles to the next town, with a 4lb payload capacity and the ability to land within a 50ft point I can pick out on google earth.

I'm sure it would take the FBI all of 45 minutes to track the person down, but it's still scary. I'm 100% pro regulation for drones, but I don't know how the fuck they would suppress it now. You can do it with a raspberry pi.
 

Feanor

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Don't let Araysar see this post.
Ayn_Rand12.jpg
 

Woolygimp

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Rome was post-scarcity. The Roman Empire was not. There's a distinction.

I've read Gibbons, Tacitus, De Re Militari (Vegetius), Mary Beard's several works, Pax Romana, several works citing the dramatic fall in literacy from 30-50% to less than 5% following the Antonine Plague, The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, more than a few documentaries, several books regarding the Eastern Roman Empire including Lost to the West, and most importantly hundreds of posts with the people who have written every Roman Book in the last 15-20 years.

If Roman History interests you I suggest you post on Romanhistorytalk.com.

Fun fact. Carthage had the equivalent to the United States Navy in modern terms. The Romans, nothing comparable. A Carthaginian ship became trapped on Sicily and was captured, and the Romans deconstructed it realizing all the parts were marked like furniture from Ikea. Within a year, the Romans had the largest navy in the world.

They sent they navy towards North Africa, it beat the ship out of Carthage and on their return was hit by the Mediterranean equivalent of a Hurricane. 95% of the ships and troops went straight to the bottom, including 100,000 soldiers.

Btw, ancient suggestions at the numbers involved in the battles are not overrated. Rome had the logistics to field that many men, including the population in the Empire. The reason Medieval battles were fought between a few thousand vs a few thousand was the decentralization of the Feudal system, the rise of the Knight, and the inability to provide logistics for such large armies, including the fact that the population of Europe SHRUNK from Antiquity into the Medieval period due to Smallpox, the inability to feed people, and other factors.

Rome had a massive, massive population. It relied on food from other countries to support it. When that no longer existed, the population of Europe collapsed for a thousand years (including the Black Death).

When you read about battles between 80,000 soldiers vs 80,000, we know they're true because we KNOW the size of Legions. Legions had 10,000 men each, and we KNOW how many Legions participated in each battle. When 8 Legions participated in battle, that was 80,000 men.

You could take the Roman Empire and drop it 1,000 years into the future, and it would have easily defeated every Medieval army that fought it. Their technology wasn't far behind, in fact it was ahead in several aspects like mobile artillery, and they had far better logistics. You'd have disciplined legions numbered in the hundreds of thousands vs say Edward's army of 10,000 at Agincourt. Instead of Edward facing undisciplined Knights eager to charge, he'd have had to deal with a massive amount of heavy infantry careful to trod across muddy ground. His longbowmen (a drastically overrated weapon) would've been of little use as there would be no horses to shoot from underneath their riders. The Roman ballistae would have fired upon the longbowmen far before the longbowmen were in range, forcing Edward to abandon his position or advance.

At least one modern historian agrees with me:
Dan Carlin claims that "You could take the roman army at it's height in history and send it 1000 years forward, drop it back in europe [...] and have it mop the floor with the greatest armies of the early middle ages relatively easily". How true can we assume this is ? • /r/AskHistorians

Gibbons claimed that prior modern times, there was NO better time to live than during Pax Romana. 400 AD-1600 AD were comparably horrible times in terms of quality of life.
 
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TomServo

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Rome was post-scarcity. The Roman Empire was not. There's a distinction.

I've read Gibbons, Tacitus, De Re Militari (Vegetius), Mary Beard's several works, Pax Romana, several works citing the dramatic fall in literacy from 30-50% to less than 5% following the Antonine Plague, The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, more than a few documentaries, several books regarding the Eastern Roman Empire including Lost to the West, and most importantly hundreds of posts with the people who have written every Roman Book in the last 15-20 years.

If Roman History interests you I suggest you post on Romanhistorytalk.com.

Fun fact. Carthage had the equivalent to the United States Navy in modern terms. The Romans, nothing comparable. A Carthaginian ship became trapped on Sicily and was captured, and the Romans deconstructed it realizing all the parts were marked like furniture from Ikea. Within a year, the Romans had the largest navy in the world.

They sent they navy towards North Africa, it beat the ship out of Carthage and on their return was hit by the Mediterranean equivalent of a Hurricane. 95% of the ships and troops went straight to the bottom, including 100,000 soldiers.

Btw, ancient suggestions at the numbers involved in the battles are not overrated. Rome had the logistics to field that many men, including the population in the Empire. The reason Medieval battles were fought between a few thousand vs a few thousand was the decentralization of the Feudal system, the rise of the Knight, and the inability to provide logistics for such large armies, including the fact that the population of Europe SHRUNK from Antiquity into the Medieval period due to Smallpox, the inability to feed people, and other factors.

Rome had a massive, massive population. It relied on food from other countries to support it. When that no longer existed, the population of Europe collapsed for a thousand years (including the Black Death).

When you read about battles between 80,000 soldiers vs 80,000, we know they're true because we KNOW the size of Legions. Legions had 10,000 men each, and we KNOW how many Legions participated in each battle. When 8 Legions participated in battle, that was 80,000 men.

You could take the Roman Empire and drop it 1,000 years into the future, and it would have easily defeated every Medieval army that fought it. Their technology wasn't far behind, in fact it was ahead in several aspects like mobile artillery, and they had far better logistics. You'd have disciplined legions numbered in the hundreds of thousands vs say Edward's army of 10,000 at Agincourt. Instead of Edward facing undisciplined Knights eager to charge, he'd have had to deal with a massive amount of heavy infantry careful to trod across muddy ground. His longbowmen (a drastically overrated weapon) would've been of little use as there would be no horses to shoot from underneath their riders. The Roman ballistae would have fired upon the longbowmen far before the longbowmen were in range, forcing Edward to abandon his position or advance.

At least one modern historian agrees with me:
Dan Carlin claims that "You could take the roman army at it's height in history and send it 1000 years forward, drop it back in europe [...] and have it mop the floor with the greatest armies of the early middle ages relatively easily". How true can we assume this is ? • /r/AskHistorians

Gibbons claimed that prior modern times, there was NO better time to live than during Pax Romana. 400 AD-1600 AD were comparably horrible times in terms of quality of life.


I love me some Carlin, but given what you just said I guess I can see why you consider yourself a Roman History expert, given that Dan goes out of his way to refer to himself as a fan.
 

iannis

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Wooly, everything you just typed...

Do me a favor. Look up the definition of post scarcity. Then go consult Gibbons on if Rome was, or was not, a slave economy. And then review the multiple famines and riots caused by grain and goods shortages within the eternal city itself. And examine how the structure of the empire adapted as Germanic and african slave captures became less common. Because they did adapt.

Neither the Roman empire nor Rome itself ever existed as a post scarcity environment. Nor was pax Romana the best time in history to have been alive. You need look no further than the fact that the empire required a yearly war to exist at all for well over half of its existence. I guess it was probably alright if you weren't a slave, were born into a landed family of senatorial rank, were male, and managed to land on the winning side of the political murder sprees that happened basically every five years. Yeah, I guess that small percent of the population had it ok.
 

Feanor

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Woolygimp is awesome and don't ypu dare to counter his feelings with logic. Or words. Or knoledge.
 

TrollfaceDeux

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Woolygimp wrote something and it is completely off topic....it was nice though. Still not post scarcity
 

Woolygimp

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Wooly, everything you just typed...

Do me a favor. Look up the definition of post scarcity. Then go consult Gibbons on if Rome was, or was not, a slave economy. And then review the multiple famines and riots caused by grain and goods shortages within the eternal city itself. And examine how the structure of the empire adapted as Germanic and african slave captures became less common. Because they did adapt.

Neither the Roman empire nor Rome itself ever existed as a post scarcity environment. Nor was pax Romana the best time in history to have been alive. You need look no further than the fact that the empire required a yearly war to exist at all for well over half of its existence. I guess it was probably alright if you weren't a slave, were born into a landed family of senatorial rank, were male, and managed to land on the winning side of the political murder sprees that happened basically every five years. Yeah, I guess that small percent of the population had it ok.

Certain people within Rome, at a certain time, were unable to be employed except as a soldier. They were given free food and free entertainment, and the occupied themselves with feasts and sex. Rome definitely had hardships, and not all of the people were well off. The only times that this changed was when Marius drafted all of these unemployed men into his legions, trained the fuck out of them, and had them mow down a barbarian horde that outnumbered him 4:1.

This definitely changed as slaves and spoils decreased and the Empire had to begin funding the army instead of relying on it as a source of income.

Several, and I mean a lot of historians, say that being a Roman citizen between 0 AD to 200 AD was the best time to be alive prior to the industrial revolution. SEVERAL. A Roman citizen effectively had the same rights as an American citizen, if not more so. Read up on the corrupt governor of Siciliy, Calus Verres, that Cicero brought to trial. Calus Verres stole art, gold, and food from the Sicilians, and from the Roman state, (who weren't citizens), raped a young girl, murdered her father who tried to defend her honor, and was found GUILTY on all charges. He received a hefty fine and was let go, when his crimes would warrant execution or lifetime in prison in American courts. Calus Verres was pne of the most corrupt officials that we know in history, and he still wasn't executed or imprisoned. Those were the protections of Romans.

A citizen could travel the Empire with protections that you could not imagine. Caesar executed the prince of Egypt for murdering Pompey, his enemy, as the execution did not befit a Roman. They called the Med. the "Roman Sea", and thought that their destiny was to rule the world.

Pax Romana was an awesome time to be alive for "Romans" (not necessarily other people). In fact, Spartacus could have escaped Roman justice and crossed the Alps. Instead he stayed in Italy! You know why? He could not bear to abandon the lifestyle and luxuries of Rome, and did not want to travel back into the wilderness. Can you imagine that? He changed his campaign to instead conquering Sicily, when escape was within his grasp. The rest is history. They leave that part out of the movies.

The aqueducts, clean water, bathes, marble cities, great temples, lavish lifestyle, abundance of garum, sprices, and wine. That wasn't just Rome, but every large Roman city from Londinium to Carthage, and the cities of Syria. They enjoyed GREAT luxury.

Would you rather be a serf in the Medieval period? Seriously?
 
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Ambiturner

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Oh good, another thread where Woolygimp thinks he's the smartest person in the room just to get his ass handed to him over and over while not even considering the fact he may be an autistic retard
 

Woolygimp

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300px-Tecaxic_calixtlahuaca_head.jpg


American was founded on the Roman Republic and its ideals. The founding fathers drew GREAT inspiration from the history of Rome, and Americans were obsessed with collecting Roman artifacts. Without Rome, American government wouldn't exist.

I think a more interesting discussing was weather the ancient people reached the Americas via the Atlantic. There's some circumstancial evidence that they did as the map on the bottom of this Carthaginian coin and this undeniably Roman head found in a grave in Mexico.

lostcolonies_phoeniciancoin.jpg


That's definitely a map of Europe and Asia, and they definitely show land to the West. To think civilizations that existed over 3,000 years would not have sent at least a few expedition West is kind of...naive. Human's love to explore. Boats in antiquity were very capable of making the voyage as they made use of both sails and rowers.
 
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Woolygimp

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Oh good, another thread where Woolygimp thinks he's the smartest person in the room just to get his ass handed to him over and over while not even considering the fact he may be an autistic retard

You haven't even read the thread you fucking idiot.
 
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khalid

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Wooly, you aren't a "post-scarcity" society if only a portion of your people don't have to worry about paying for food and entertainment. WTF dude, get your definition right.

"Hey guys, we are in a post-scarcity society because poor people get food stamps, welfare and free television".

Would you rather be a serf in the Medieval period? Seriously?

For fucks sake dude. WHO THE FUCK CARES how they compared to the serfs in the medieval period when you are talking about post scarcity society. We aren't in a post-scarcity society TODAY and it is hella better to live today than back then.
 

Woolygimp

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Wooly, you aren't a "post-scarcity" society if only a portion of your people don't have to worry about paying for food and entertainment. WTF dude, get your definition right.

"Hey guys, we are in a post-scarcity society because poor people get food stamps, welfare and free television".



For fucks sake dude. WHO THE FUCK CARES how they compared to the serfs in the medieval period when you are talking about post scarcity society. We aren't in a post-scarcity society TODAY and it is hella better to live today than back then.

Ok, I'm willing to concede my idea of post scarcity is wrong, but my history about Rome is not. Ok? If you do a search for Rome Post Scarcity, you do receive a lot of people who kind of agree with me that it was a "simplistic" version of one for a time.

On the one hand, a post scarcity economy represents utopia. .... This is not unlike the service economy of ancient Rome where the privileged ...

Also this blogger:

Captain Capitalism: Why Post-Scarcity Economics is Scary

and this guy:

Your scenario is plausible; indeed, it is partially realised today, and would be more closely realised if it weren't for leftists. Again, it was partially realised in Roman society in late Republican and more particularly early Imperial times. People in the upper class devoted themselves to the arts, to sex, and to the pleasures of the table. Power politics weren't very interesting because the Emperor looked after that, and it was dangerous to get involved. Every type of sex proliferated, in particular sex with boys, but everything went. And it was much too much effort to raise children. So the upper class declined. To be fair to them, certain of the Emperors such as Tiberius did murder a lot of them.

It lasted a long time, but eventually external forces brought about change. In the first instance the Germanic invaders ended the Western Roman empire, and then much later the rise of the Slavic region weakened the Eastern empire, which was finished off by the Turks in 1453. But it had a long run for its money.
 
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khalid

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Several, and I mean a lot of historians, say that being a Roman citizen between 0 AD to 200 AD was the best time to be alive prior to the industrial revolution. SEVERAL. A Roman citizen effectively had the same rights as an American citizen, if not more so. Read up on the corrupt governor of Siciliy, Calus Verres, that Cicero brought to trial. Calus Verres stole art, gold, and food from the Sicilians, and from the Roman state, (who weren't citizens), raped a young girl, murdered her father who tried to defend her honor, and was found GUILTY on all charges. He received a hefty fine and was let go, when his crimes would warrant execution or lifetime in prison in American courts. Calus Verres was pne of the most corrupt officials that we know in history, and he still wasn't executed or imprisoned. Those were the protections of Romans.

A citizen could travel the Empire with protections that you could not imagine. Caesar executed the prince of Egypt for murdering Pompey, his enemy, as the execution did not befit a Roman. They called the Med. the "Roman Sea", and thought that their destiny was to rule the world.

Pax Romana was an awesome time to be alive for "Romans" (not necessarily other people). In fact, Spartacus could have escaped Roman justice and crossed the Alps. Instead he stayed in Italy! You know why? He could not bear to abandon the lifestyle and luxuries of Rome, and did not want to travel back into the wilderness. Can you imagine that? He changed his campaign to instead conquering Sicily, when escape was within his grasp. The rest is history. They leave that part out of the movies.

The aqueducts, clean water, bathes, marble cities, great temples, lavish lifestyle, abundance of garum, sprices, and wine. That wasn't just Rome, but every large Roman city from Londinium to Carthage, and the cities of Syria. They enjoyed GREAT luxury.

Would you rather be a serf in the Medieval period? Seriously?

Everything you posted here has absolutely nothing to do with a post-scarcity society. None of it.

How the fuck does the rights of a roman citizen have anything to do with a post-scarcity society? It doesn't.
Caesar killing someone for executing Pompey? Fucking nothing to do with post-scarcity.
Thought their destiny was to rule the world and "Roman Sea". Wtf does that have to do with post-scarcity.
Spartacus thinking Rome was better than other places? Nothing
Aqueducts and clean water you say? Have them today, not post-scarcity.
Great temples, spices? Bitch, we have more than that today, not post-scarcity.

You are literally listing off anecdotes about roman history in an entire attempt to goal-post shift from your original premise. We aren't your buddies at a bar telling you how cool you are. We aren't going to let you do that shit.
 

iannis

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No one knows why Spartacus chose to try for Sicily. The Romans themselves didn't know. They also didn't care.
 

Woolygimp

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Everything you posted here has absolutely nothing to do with a post-scarcity society. None of it.

How the fuck does the rights of a roman citizen have anything to do with a post-scarcity society? It doesn't.
Caesar killing someone for executing Pompey? Fucking nothing to do with post-scarcity.
Thought their destiny was to rule the world and "Roman Sea". Wtf does that have to do with post-scarcity.
Spartacus thinking Rome was better than other places? Nothing
Aqueducts and clean water you say? Have them today, not post-scarcity.
Great temples, spices? Bitch, we have more than that today, not post-scarcity.

You are literally listing off anecdotes about roman history in an entire attempt to goal-post shift from your original premise. We aren't your buddies at a bar telling you how cool you are. We aren't going to let you do that shit.

That post was me refuting someone saying that "Living in Pax Romana" was not better than living in other time periods, not about post scarcity. The post below deals with post-scarcity Rome, or at least the case for it.
 
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khalid

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Ok, I'm willing to concede my idea of post scarcity is wrong, but my history about Rome is not.

This thread isn't about Roman history. I don't give a fuck if you are correct about Roman history because its an attempt to goalpost shift from your original wrong premise.

For example, I in fact do have some quibbles with interpretations but I'm not going to bring them up because it doesn't matter and to do so would be to fall for your goalpost shift.
 

Woolygimp

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No one knows why Spartacus chose to try for Sicily. The Romans themselves didn't know. They also didn't care.

The prevailing theory is because he didn't want to leave the luxurious Roman lifestyle. Why run off in the woods when you're used to bathes, clean water, cities, cleanness, clothes, and so forth.

It's a theory, but at the moment it's the one with the most academic support.
 
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