Woolygimp's Blog

iannis · Oct 26, 2016

Kiroy said:
I often wonder where we'd be right now if a decade ago we stopped and said, fuck iraq, let's just take that money and shove it into nasa and the private space industry. All 1.7 trillion... man, where would we be right now...

I reckon we'd be about the same place with fewer crippled veterans.

On the whole it was Financial Sector shenannigans, overproduction of Housing, and corporate malfeasance that fucked us so hard. Iraq was, in retrospect, a completely wasteful campaign and irredeemable by almost any metric. But maybe, and i'm just saying maybe, it distracted from other looming problems.

Taking that industry and putting it somewhere else? Maybe we could have pushed 2008 back into 2018. Maybe not though. Too big to fail was already a thing before Iraq. Maybe the distraction that Iraq caused prolonged the inevitable. Maybe 2008 happens in 2006 if we have everyone looking at banks and domestic investment instead of bombs and America'ing the fuck out of dune coons.

But I do think it's pretty much inarguable that we would have been better off building our own roads and schools than blowing up Iraqi ones and rebuilding them for them. I do think would have been a wiser political investment.

The oil shock might not have happened. Of course, it still might have.

Kiroy · Oct 26, 2016

iannis said:
I reckon we'd be about the same place with fewer crippled veterans.

On the whole it was Financial Sector shenannigans, overproduction of Housing, and corporate malfeasance that fucked us so hard. Iraq was, in retrospect, a completely wasteful campaign and irredeemable by almost any metric. But maybe, and i'm just saying maybe, it distracted from other looming problems.

Taking that industry and putting it somewhere else? Maybe we could have pushed 2008 back into 2018. Maybe not though. Maybe the distraction that Iraq caused prolonged the inevitable. Maybe 2008 happens in 2006 if we have everyone looking at banks and domestic investment instead of bombs and America'ing the fuck out of dune coons.

You think our space industry (private/public) would be in the same place if they had 1.7 trillion injected into them in the last decade?

Zapatta · Oct 26, 2016

consensus said:
I do admire Woolygimp 's apparent passion for things.

I watched a young toddler trying to turn a door knob for solid half hour once. It was awesome, I was cheering him on the whole time, he never gave up, never got it open, his mom finally caught him and punished the perseverance right oot of him.

Turn that knob Wooly, you can do it!

TrollfaceDeux · Oct 26, 2016

Kiroy said:
You think our space industry (private/public) would be in the same place if they had 1.7 trillion injected into them in the last decade?

I agree with

iannis . Putting money into shit doesn't necessarily mean it will produce something.

Aldarion · Oct 26, 2016

Putting money into NASA is no guarantee theyll put us on Mars. But you can count on this -- if we dont put money into NASA NASA wont get to Mars.

Still 1000X better use of money than what its being put to currently.

iannis · Oct 26, 2016

Kiroy said:
You think our space industry (private/public) would be in the same place if they had 1.7 trillion injected into them in the last decade?

I really don't know. But I do know that giving them opporunity does not garauntee results.

I really don't know. Yeah, in hindsight... putting 1.7 billion somewhere else, even if you got NO RETURN, is probably wiser than spending it on Iraq.

But Iraq didn't -have- to fail. It was always a foolish hope... but it could have worked. It could have. It didn't. An example of when putting resources into a project does not garauntee a result.

Kiroy · Oct 26, 2016

consensus said:
I agree with iannis . Putting money into shit doesn't necessarily mean it will produce something.

True true, out education system being a great example. But note that I did add the private sector and not just nasa - musk today is seeking funding for his interplanetary transport. As a taxpayer, I would not be bummed if this was where my tax dollars went.

Kiroy · Oct 26, 2016

iannis said:
I really don't know. But I do know that giving them opporunity does not garauntee results.

I really don't know. Yeah, in hindsight... putting 1.7 billion somewhere else, even if you got NO RETURN, is probably wiser than spending it on Iraq.

But Iraq didn't -have- to fail. It was always a foolish hope... but it could have worked. It could have. It didn't. An example of when putting resources into a project does not garauntee a result.

Trillion. With a T.

TrollfaceDeux · Oct 26, 2016

iannis said:
I really don't know. But I do know that giving them opporunity does not garauntee results.

I really don't know. Yeah, in hindsight... putting 1.7 billion somewhere else, even if you got NO RETURN, is probably wiser than spending it on Iraq.

But Iraq didn't -have- to fail. It was always a foolish hope... but it could have worked. It could have. It didn't. An example of when putting resources into a project does not garauntee a result.

we should have stolen their oil and pay for our shit. payment for liberating their shithole.

iannis · Oct 26, 2016

I do think that Iraq is the last time we'll even try for another 20-25 years.

It'll take people who didn't live through it to start thinking it's a good idea to try again.

In a lot of ways it really was like vietnam.

Obama's and Hillaries drone wars... they're not even going to pretend. That kind of corrupt honesty is probably for the best. It'll make the wars smaller and cost less, at the very least.

radditsu · Oct 26, 2016

Zapatta said:
I watched a young toddler trying to turn a door knob for solid half hour once. It was awesome, I was cheering him on the whole time, he never gave up, never got it open, his mom finally caught him and punished the perseverance right oot of him.

Turn that knob Wooly, you can do it!

I am trying so hard to get my 2 year old to flush the potty. He is sooooo close! He just doesn't do force very well.

radditsu · Oct 26, 2016

iannis said:
I do think that Iraq is the last time we'll even try for another 20-25 years.

It'll take people who didn't live through it to start thinking it's a good idea to try again.

In a lot of ways it really was like vietnam.

Obama's and Hillaries drone wars... they're not even going to pretend. That kind of corrupt honesty is probably for the best. It'll make the wars smaller and cost less, at the very least.

Drone wars will begin until terrorists get a widespread usage in drones. Then all drones will be illegal because terrorism!

Titan_Atlas · Oct 26, 2016

radditsu said:
Drone wars will begin until terrorists get a widespread usage in drones. Then all drones will be illegal because terrorism!

It's sad because it's true and only like 5-8 years away.

radditsu · Oct 26, 2016

Titan_Atlas said:
It's sad because it's true and only like 5-8 years away.

If that. You can build a drone in your garage that could carry a small explosive device now. If you just wanted to spread terrorism. All you need is an iphone for navigation plotting.

Zapatta · Oct 26, 2016

I am sure they will use that in a Dark Knight movie and Comgress will pass a law the day after someone flys one past a theater showing it.

AngryGerbil · Oct 26, 2016

consensus said:
I am trying to develop a thesis based on these ideas.

Are you biologically minded at all?

I am honestly only asking out of curiosity, not trolling or talking shit.

I think my major problem with com/soc is that, conceptually, you may mix as much warm buttery delicious glucose into the solution of a test tube of bacteria as you want, and those bacteria will always grow to become a population that will consume it all. All of it.

A population of 10 or a population of 10 billion-trillion seems irrelevant. Once the boundaries of the system are inevitably reached, capitalism is the thing that will begin to happen. Even in wild animals. Which is of course what we are.

That's why the entire idea of 'post-scarcity' is fairly alien to me. I'm not sure a biological system can even fathom such an environment. Unless it does so by using hominid brains to imagine utopias and heavens.

TrollfaceDeux · Oct 26, 2016

AngryGerbil said:
Are you biologically minded at all?

I am honestly only asking out of curiosity, not trolling or talking shit.

I think my major problem with com/soc is that, conceptually, you may mix as much warm buttery delicious glucose into the solution of a test tube of bacteria as you want, and those bacteria will always grow to become a population that will consume it all. All of it.

A population of 10 or a population of 10 billion-trillion seems irrelevant. Once the boundaries of the system are inevitably reached, capitalism is the thing that will begin to happen. Even in wild animals. Which is of course what we are.

That's why the entire idea of 'post-scarcity' is fairly alien to me. I'm not sure a biological system can even fathom such an environment. Unless it does so by using hominid brains to imagine utopias and heavens.

The basis of capitalism is exchange of goods freely through private means. Decentralization of political power makes that work in a smaller scale. The federal government is the one that is not capitalistic. I am proposing a society that is governed in a smaller scale which increases the capital (power) traded between people.

AngryGerbil · Oct 26, 2016

consensus said:
Here is the thing. The basis of capitalism is exchange of goods freely through private means. Decentralization of political power makes that work in a smaller scale. The federal government is the one that is not capitalistic. I am proposing a society that is governed in a smaller scale which increases the capital (power) traded between people.

I'm down with that. We'd still grow to consume everything in the end, but at least while on that path it would be the workers and innovators who eat well and not the sloths and professional victims.

TrollfaceDeux · Oct 26, 2016

AngryGerbil said:
I'm down with that. We'd still grow to consume everything in the end, but at least while on that path it would be the workers and innovators who eat well and not the sloths and professional victims.

People build trust on the basis of "you give me that and I give you this."
That is the fundamental concept. I've seen it work myself. I did shit for my boss. I fucked up. He covered for me because I did shit for him. Back and forth. That is the most genuine experience I've ever had.

AngryGerbil · Oct 26, 2016

consensus said:
People build trust on the basis of "you give me that and I give you this."
That is the fundamental concept. I've seen it work myself. I did shit for my boss. I fucked up. He covered for me because I did shit for him. Back and forth. That is the most genuine experience I've ever had.

Don't let Araysar see this post.

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