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Bandwagon

Kolohe
<Silver Donator>
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I only started behaving in this manner after you guys repeatedly tried to tear me down by calling me a combination of autistic, retarded, austistic, dumb, terrible, and autistic.

I've never received such a terrible reception, although a few posters, including a mod, send me PMs saying they do enjoy my posts so not to leave. It just seems like hating me in public is the cool thing to do.
You probably ARE on the spectrum and you are annoying as fuck at times, but I do enjoy having you here as a catalyst for example entertaining derails.

It's still funny that you don't see an issue with declaring yourself the expert in every topic you jump into though. do you really not notice?
 

kegkilla

The Big Mod
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We already have examples of post-scarcity economies in history, idiots. Rome was a post-scarcity society. They handed out grain to all of the cities inhabitants, who were largely unemployed, and gave them free access to games that cost the state massive amounts of money. Bread and Circuses.

All the land was owned by the elite, all the labor done by slaves and soldiers. They literally had nothing to do except eat, sleep, and fuck, which they did.

Replace slaves and soldiers in that example with robots. Same thing. We'll have free food and media (to keep us entertained). In fact, there's a solution to the Fermi Paradox that states that once a society reaches a certain level, they stop expanding because they get far more enjoyment about of virtual reality. Basically, at a certain point anything they can do in real life can be -perfectly- replicated in a virtual environment, so there's no fucking point to actually living life.

Think about it. You want to enlist in Starfleet for adventure/exploration? Why? They can create an even more adventurous Galaxy for you to explore, while you don't risk your life when your anti-matter/warp engine inexplicably explodes like it does in every episode. Think about whatever you dreamed you want to be. You could do it, without the risk of death.

It actually makes sense as a solution to the Fermi Paradox. Why expand or conquer the Universe when you can literally do everything in virtual reality without having to die. The only reason to expand is redundancy, should your planet suffer a catastrophic disaster. But not enough to expand past a few solar systems.

That's the future.
It's not as much fun without a death penalty. If you played EQ you would know that.
 
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radditsu

Silver Knight of the Realm
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Guarantee I know more about the Roman Empire than anyone on this board, perhaps the entire board put together.

I may be misunderstanding what a post scarcity economy is, but not my history.


This is the dumbest shit I have ever read. It screams childlike retardation.



Also you never...ever....ever cite troop numbers in ancient history as any way accurate. That's like 102 level critical thinking.
 
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Swagdaddy

There is a war going on over control of your mind
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i vote overly pixelated pootie tang MAGA avatar best avatar
 
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radditsu

Silver Knight of the Realm
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i vote overly pixelated pootie tang MAGA avatar best avatar


No idea what caused the issue. I figure it was fine until after the election. Can't be bothered to go to the old forum to find the original.
 
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OhSeven

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I don't know anyone in person who admits they want a socialist/communist government, but if the few on the forum are any representation of the kind of people who do, then it will almost certainly come to pass.

Between the severe autism and cousin fucking, I don't think socialist will ever have a sizable enough population or gain enough sway to make it happen.
 
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khalid

Unelected Mod
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Guarantee I know more about the Roman Empire than anyone on this board, perhaps the entire board put together.

Bitch motherfuckin please. I've read tons of books on Rome, including the complete works of tacitus. Hell I've read 3 books on the byzantine empire alone and two other books just on the life of Belisarius. Listened to the entire History of Rome podcast twice, some sections multiple times. I'm currently listening to the history of Byzantium podcast.

No way in hell Rome was post-scarcity. Get the fuck out of here with that shit.
 
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Titan_Atlas

Deus Vult
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I already made an in-depth post that debunked this.

I read somewhere that Rome had a large contingent of climate change denier's and didn't stop using resources quickly enough. That allowed the barbarians who were a very green culture to use large scale renewable resources to conquer Rome? That's not true?
 
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Aldarion

Egg Nazi
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If only the obamaphone wasn't around we woulda seent the stars!
Pardon me from interrupting the Roman History thing -- but yeah. It really is our frivolous spending on bullshit that prevents us from "reaching the stars", or at least establishing colonies on other planets in our solar system.

Its not the obamaphone by itself. Its death by a thousand frivolous papercuts. We could reach the moon with a 5% reduction in entitlements and defense, and mars with a 10% cut. And that money would be far fucking better spent getting the human race on other planets than buying "poor" people smartphones. Yes.
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
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And what a wonderful way to motivate people to innovate, make shit better, advance the general well being, health, and happiness of people than leveraging greed. I mean, think about that for a second. People say greed and its always negative thoughts, people stealing your shit, taking shit away, but its through peoples greed that we got the entire advancement weve been experiencing in the last 150 yrs. One's desire for fame and recognition and fortune can drive him to do great things. Id rather have an economy that rewards ambition and greed than one that smothers it. Judge capitalism not by the motives of the capitalists but by its fruit. And, oh we all enjoy those fruits, dont we?

The decision is not between what you suggest. We can still accomplish all the things you listed, I believe, without the requirement of greed. Saying that 150 years of advancement is because of greed is a bad argument. The period of advancement in the West is because of free criticism of ideas and the ability of better ideas to take hold and by virtue of being an improvement, replace old ways. You give a false option between rewarding ambition or greed or just killing all ambition. I don't mean to nitpick your sentence, but you certainly don't believe that we all sit under the same tree and consume the same fruits.

I think you can judge capitalism by some of its fruit. While many of the aspects of capitalism are sweet and improvements over the past, a few aspects definitely conflict directly with some of our virtue ethics that we also desire to hold up as goods in society. It is actually safe and not dangerous to discuss these weaknesses. I've said in previous posts that I am not advocating system change, because I have no idea what replacement system would be better.
 

Kiroy

Marine Biologist
<Bronze Donator>
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Pardon me from interrupting the Roman History thing -- but yeah. It really is our frivolous spending on bullshit that prevents us from "reaching the stars", or at least establishing colonies on other planets in our solar system.

Its not the obamaphone by itself. Its death by a thousand frivolous papercuts. We could reach the moon with a 5% reduction in entitlements and defense, and mars with a 10% cut. And that money would be far fucking better spent getting the human race on other planets than buying "poor" people smartphones. Yes.

I often wonder where we'd be right now if a decade ago we stopped and said, fuck iraq, let's just take that money and shove it into nasa and the private space industry. All 1.7 trillion... man, where would we be right now...
 
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iannis

Musty Nester
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Bitch motherfuckin please. I've read tons of books on Rome, including the complete works of tacitus. Hell I've read 3 books on the byzantine empire alone and two other books just on the life of Belisarius. Listened to the entire History of Rome podcast twice, some sections multiple times. I'm currently listening to the history of Byzantium podcast.

No way in hell Rome was post-scarcity. Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

Uhhh. Rome was a post scarcity environment?

I genuinely question if someone making that assertion understands what the term "post scarcity" means.

To the original question though: no, they are not inevitable. They only seem so because the examination itself is partial and theoretical. It does not account for chaotic influences external or internal. External influences cannot even be reasonably guessed at, but given our impulses at a level you could call "instinctual" (even if that is not technically correct enough to satisfy hodj) then War, however, probably is a self perpetutating stable form. You don't need an external influence to falsify the notion.

You have to apply a parsimony of thought. While potentially idyllic, a stable and just socialism is not a self perpetuating form. It cannot be, as the notions of stability and justice themselves are not platonic ideals but shifting abstracts communally derived. It is not an impossible form, or a bad form, but it is not a self perpetuating one.
 
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TrollfaceDeux

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Bronze Donator>
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Uhhh. Rome was a post scarcity environment?

I genuinely question if someone making that assertion understands what the term "post scarcity" means.

To the original question though: no, they are not inevitable. They only seem so because the examination itself is partial and theoretical. It does not account for chaotic influences external or internal. External influences cannot even be reasonably guessed at, but given our impulses at a level you could call "instinctual" (even if that is not technically correct enough to satisfy hodj) then War, however, probably is a self perpetutating stable form. You don't need an external influence to falsify the notion.

You have to apply a parsimony of thought. While potentially idyllic, a stable and just socialism is not a self perpetuating form. It cannot be, as the notions of stability and justice themselves are not platonic ideals but shifting abstracts communally derived. It is not an impossible form, or a bad form, but it is not a self perpetuating one.
Best method of governance is not Rome....never can...Centralization only leads to more corruption, more stagnation, and power and influence to a few. Despite the greatness of Rome and the empire that it produced, you have to ask yourself why it did not reach the renaissance and scientific revolution of 1500-1800.

it works to generate and move your national energy and resources for a common purpose but in the long run it creates fracture and dissolution..

In the future, Post-scarcity society will have to be decentralized as much as possible to groups of people or a small municipality.

Farm as much land as they can, expand and increase production of energy everywhere through smaller and divided investments instead of fucking 5 billion which will inevitably get lost.

Divide the risk into people, which means capital needs to be broken at the top and granted to people.


I think people need to own more land. Own more shit. Own energy. Own them and produce value for themselves.


Otherwise, people will never be motivated.

I am trying to develop a thesis based on these ideas. it is not communism...since it values property and ownership. It is mix of both. I am serious in saying that we need a new ideology to drive people that not only reflects nature of humanity but also making full use of that nature for good of all.
 
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