World of Warcraft: Classic

Daezuel · May 26, 2019

I do think I'd rather have 20 man raids if you're also doing 10 mans. I don't understand the 25/10 split and obviously fuck difficulty sliders in an mmo.

Are you really in here acting like mythic raids are harder than Heroic Rag was? First kill took over 500+ wipes.

xzi · May 26, 2019

I've watched Asmongold quite a bit over the last year or so whenever bored, he's said he never really played vanilla much. Got to max level but didn't play until the very end of it, and didn't actually start doing anything at all until TBC.

He still has big brian iq about transmog items though, it's kind of nuts.

xzi · May 26, 2019

Daezuel said:
Are you really in here acting like mythic raids are harder than Heroic Rag was? First kill took over 500+ wipes.

I don't know if you play or not, but the last boss of the last 2 and a half tiers have been absolutely insane and far, FAR harder than Rag was.

The problem I have with mythic is the ramping up in difficulty is kind of like:

|--|--|---|----|-------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Daezuel · May 26, 2019

xzi said:
I don't know if you play or not, but the last boss of the last 2 and a half tiers have been absolutely insane and far, FAR harder than Rag was.

The problem I have with mythic is the ramping up in difficulty is kind of like:

|--|--|---|----|-------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Nah, I stopped, but there have been plenty of cockblock raid bosses in the past no? Kil'jaeden also springs to mind.

Daezuel · May 26, 2019

Asmongold clearly doesn't have the skill of guys like Venruki or Cdew but he's a total autist about everything in the live game and isn't a bad player by any stretch.

Cybsled · May 26, 2019

Chanur said:
Thanks to cross realm LFD/LFR/PvP shit none of that is the case anymore. I think that shit destroyed the game.

Cross realm came about because it was either that or old fashioned server merges.

Cross realm, no one bats an eyelash. Server merges quickly turn into "OMG DEAD GAME, WE'RE FUCKING DEAD! BAIL OUT NOW".

They're fundamentally the same thing, except you log into the "same server" with crossrealm instead of feeling like your home server got destroyed. It's a sound psychological trick and extremely effective, as evidenced by your comment.

Chanur · May 26, 2019

Cybsled said:
Cross realm came about because it was either that or old fashioned server merges.

Cross realm, no one bats an eyelash. Server merges quickly turn into "OMG DEAD GAME, WE'RE FUCKING DEAD! BAIL OUT NOW".

They're fundamentally the same thing, except you log into the "same server" with crossrealm instead of feeling like your home server got destroyed. It's a sound psychological trick and extremely effective, as evidenced by your comment.

Except with merges you are always with the same people. Its not the same thing. You can recognize who you are fighting against and playing with. Cross realm no one gives a shit because you will never see them again.

Cybsled · May 26, 2019

Cross realm is with your datacenter, though. You're seeing the same populations, even if you don't notice it. It's not like it is just spinning a wheel between server 1 and 200.

No companies like to risk obvious merges, though, unless the game is so fucking dead that they have nothing to lose. You'd have 100 Youtube videos in minutes all exclaiming why your game is dying, which makes it "real" in the minds of people, which hurts your long term viability.

Server merges also aren't a good option if you have anything static in the world based on the server, like housing. Server merges in FFXIV, for instance, would have people crying for blood if they lost their houses as a result. Archeage server merges hurt them even more for that reason. Game was dying, but people losing their choice land/homes made even more people quit.

Noodleface · May 26, 2019

Pop

Daezuel said:
I do think I'd rather have 20 man raids if you're also doing 10 mans. I don't understand the 25/10 split and obviously fuck difficulty sliders in an mmo.

Are you really in here acting like mythic raids are harder than Heroic Rag was? First kill took over 500+ wipes.

The short answer is honestly I dont know, I didn't raid heroic rag.

Our first mythic Argus took around 500, some guilds were up towards 1000. The best guilds in the world I forget how long, probably half of what we took.

Now look at the latest raid, final boss was 700-800 for the top guild in the world.

Throw into this that mythic difficulty is like xzi said. For about 60% of the bosses it's just hard. Then it enters ball punching territory.

Chanur · May 26, 2019

Cybsled said:
Cross realm is with your datacenter, though. You're seeing the same populations, even if you don't notice it. It's not like it is just spinning a wheel between server 1 and 200.

No companies like to risk obvious merges, though, unless the game is so fucking dead that they have nothing to lose. You'd have 100 Youtube videos in minutes all exclaiming why your game is dying, which makes it "real" in the minds of people, which hurts your long term viability.

As oppossed to actually killing your game which cross realms has done. It started the slow bleed that their other terrible decsions have picked up and ran with.

Thats my opinion , feel free to disagree. But I hate it and they have not gotten my money in years.

sadris · May 26, 2019

Daezuel said:
Nah, I stopped, but there have been plenty of cockblock raid bosses in the past no? Kil'jaeden also springs to mind.

Wtf. KJ was easy loot. Muru was the cockblock. We killed KJ the night we started on him. Muru took 525 attempts.

Daezuel · May 26, 2019

Noodleface said:
Pop

The short answer is honestly I dont know, I didn't raid heroic rag.

Our first mythic Argus took around 500, some guilds were up towards 1000. The best guilds in the world I forget how long, probably half of what we took.

Now look at the latest raid, final boss was 700-800 for the top guild in the world.

Throw into this that mythic difficulty is like xzi said. For about 60% of the bosses it's just hard. Then it enters ball punching territory.

Yeah, I dunno, I think that many attempts by the top guilds in the world is just too difficult. Raids shouldn't be killing guilds difficulty level, I don't think it's good overall for the game. I realize you can do it on lower difficulties full well.

sadris · May 26, 2019

The classicwow Reddit is retarded. They're rabbit about flying mounts being bad. How it destroyed the game. Fucking fags. Flying was the greatest thing ever.

Daezuel · May 26, 2019

sadris said:
Wtf. KJ was easy loot. Muru was the cockblock. We killed KJ the night we started on him. Muru took 525 attempts.

Said it sprang to mind, you're right Muru was the hard one.

Noodleface · May 26, 2019

Daezuel said:
Yeah, I dunno, I think that many attempts by the top guilds in the world is just too difficult. Raids shouldn't be killing guilds difficulty level, I don't think it's good overall for the game. I realize you can do it on lower difficulties full well.

We have different philosophies in terms of the difficulty stuff. That's clear lol

Daezuel · May 26, 2019

Noodleface said:
We have different philosophies in terms of the difficulty stuff. That's clear lol

What is the perfect boss difficulty for you then? They could just turn a raid into an hour long fight where you have to be perfect so no one could ever do it. Where is that line for you? What should the game be designed around? Maybe Mythic isn't hard enough?

Daezuel · May 26, 2019

I'd also be a lot more inclined to want difficult content at the end of a raid if there was no difficulty slider. If it took 500+ attempts to kill a boss you couldn't just give up on and do on easy mode I'd be better with that.

I think the game can still be hard without being ridiculous though.

alavaz · May 26, 2019

Chanur said:
As for raid size I don't care. I think both sizes have advantages. I just don't like all the difficulty settings or changing raid sizes. Pick one size and stick with it. I would rather see that development spent on more raid content. I think raids should have a difficulty progression with the entry raids being the easiest and the final raids being the equivalent of mythic + or what ever garbage it is today.

I'm with that for sure. Pick a size, tune content once.

I can't define a single last straw for me with the game, but I can say that my fun level with it sort of peaked at WoTLK and has been steadily downward ever since. The guild I had been with since TBC basically imploded whenever they introduced the whole scaling raid size, normal mode, cross realm stuff. A lot of the loyalest people in that guild weren't the most skilled players and we were fine with them leaning on the better players because we enjoyed their company. Adding the raid scaling pretty much put it front and center that they were holding us back. It made everyone feel lousy and while it wasn't the sole reason, it was a reason it fell it apart.

Daezuel · May 26, 2019

alavaz said:
I'm with that for sure. Pick a size, tune content once.

I can't define a single last straw for me with the game, but I can say that my fun level with it sort of peaked at WoTLK and has been steadily downward ever since. The guild I had been with since TBC basically imploded whenever they introduced the whole scaling raid size, normal mode, cross realm stuff. A lot of the loyalest people in that guild weren't the most skilled players and we were fine with them leaning on the better players because we enjoyed their company. Adding the raid scaling pretty much put it front and center that they were holding us back. It everyone feel lousy and while it wasn't the sole reason, it was a reason it fell it apart.

This is the story of a LOT of guilds I'd wager.

Noodleface · May 26, 2019

Daezuel said:
What is the perfect boss difficulty for you then? They could just turn a raid into an hour long fight where you have to be perfect so no one could ever do it. Where is that line for you? What should the game be designed around? Maybe Mythic isn't hard enough?

I think mythic is fine. I'm ok with heroic being in the game too. Normal and LFR are a legitimate waste

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