World of Warcraft: Current Year

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Runnen

Runnen

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Drakurii said:
a mostly feminine manthing screaming at the top of it's voice about people that can't control themselves...I'll take retarded things for a $1,000 Alex Afrasiabi
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After watching that video, we can at least be sure he keeps his hands to himself. Most likely several times a day.
 
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Chris

Chris

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TJT said:
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Looks like WoW Streamers and YouTubers are breaking down into two categories:

1) Personality Streamers

2) Content Streamers

Personality Streamer is when they are the attraction, not the game. Asmongold has fans funneling him memes and videos to react to and they follow him around in game which he can use to make content. These people and their communities are the happiest they have ever been playing FF14 and are seeing huge sub boosts.

Content Streamer is when they can play or analyse the game really well. Tallesin can only talk about WoW Lore in any detail, the world first racers can only play WoW at a high level. These people are facing the ends of their careers and are having these demented rants and rage fits because of it.

Now these categories are not mutually exclusive. Bellular is someone people seem to like/respect and is riding the wave of Blizzard hate right now by criticising them, he may be able to transition into FF14 if he stops making WoW Lore videos and actually gets past lv30 in FF14.

The WoW Lore analysts are probably done as FF14 isn't really doing the mystery box thing.
 
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xzi

xzi

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Runnen said:
Kate's going to resurface 15 years later to let the world know how she was harassed by FoH forum members on WoW when they found out she played a tauren of all things. Trouble is afoot.
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Trouble is ahoof*
 
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Mist

Mist

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mkopec said:
LOL wow started to suck with its first expansion, and even before than when they "normalized" all the fun out of this game. Its been a steady and slow decline since.
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WoW really started to suck after Ulduar when they started doing multiple difficulty versions of the same raid, and when they started doing flexible size raids.

Ulduar was fucking perfect and remains the best raid ever; hard modes that were activated by doing specific things in the encounter, with a 'final' boss that had not 1, not 2, but 5 effective difficulties. Everything was built into the encounter itself rather than some UI element that you toggled to get a specific difficulty. It also had a "hidden" final boss.

sadris said:
Got banned from r/wow for saying Kaplan and pals probably quit when they noticed SJWs taking over blizzard and they forsaw quality starting to decline.

In 2014 blizzard announced a diversity hiring initiative. (Sjw hiring initiative)
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Explain Cataclysm, which launched in 2010, and was by far the worst expac, not even close.
 
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Neranja

Neranja

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Chris said:
The WoW Lore analysts are probably done as FF14 isn't really doing the mystery box thing.
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Maybe the WoW devs tried to play too hard into it, as it drove attention and clicks into these lore channels like Nobbel, Pyromancer, and Bellular. Or maybe they fucked the story/lore of WoW explicitly so the lore analysts of WoW would get off their back.

Or maybe this is a very long con of some ex-SOE employees, that are still salty that WoW stole all their players. If I remember correctly the TBC mount/boost was only announced after Holly joined Blizzard?
 
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Runnen

Runnen

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Neranja said:
Or maybe this is a very long con of some ex-SOE employees, that are still salty that WoW stole all their players. If I remember correctly the TBC mount/boost was only announced after Holly joined Blizzard?
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I'm onboard, the ex-EQ devs let themselves get poached for WoW Classic so they could destroy Blizzard from the inside.

Any day now Blizzard HQ is going to blow up while LGBTQWTF+ crowds picket on the parking lot, and Holly Windstalker will sommersault out of the exploding window, perform a three-point landing like Black fucking Widow, get up and say "It's time to slay the dragon, folks." as the building and the orc statue crumble behind her.
 
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Mist

Mist

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The 3 things actually wrong with WoW:

1) Overly complex slot-machine rotations, with too many action bar buttons. It's one thing to have a bunch of utility abilities filling your action bars, that's okay, but having to hit 14 different flashy light-up buttons just to do damage is retarded. If an ability exists solely to fill up GCD holes in the rotation, and isn't actually fun or meaningful to press on its own, just delete it and bake it into the autoattacks. The whole "nobody wants a dead second in their rotation" concept is fucking nonsense. It's okay to give people a second to scratch their nose during an 8 minute boss encounter.
2) Over-reliance on mods to communicate necessary and meaningful information to the player.
3) Borrowed power. At the very least, take some of the signature abilities from an expac and turn them into a row of talents, something to remind the player "oh, right, I was there" or bake some of the key passives into the class. After BFA they took two of the key Azerite traits for DH, Furious Gaze and Chaotic Transformation, and baked them into the class as high level passives.

And for fuck's sake, let people have mining and gathering for free. Making gathering professions exclusive to crafting professions just leads to a situation where the overworld is less fun for everyone, and makes the economic inputs largely dependent on farming bots. If Korthia has shown anything, it's that it's fun to pickup nodes and chests while questing. That's a fundamentally important gameplay loop to the overworld gameplay of an MMO.
 
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Neranja

Neranja

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Mist said:
Explain Cataclysm, which launched in 2010, and was by far the worst expac, not even close.
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Cataclysm wasn't that bad. It wasn't that good, either: A lot of the things they did during the expansion were wrong:

The biggest pain point for players, especially on the casual end, was the heroic difficulty, which Blizzard flip-flopped on. The idea behind it was probably to keep the dungeons challenging longer, because during WotLK they were at first, but after two years of gear progression in WotLK from 187 to 264, everyone forgot how hard those heroics were at the beginning.

Since then Blizzard has tried multiple ways to keep things challenging, like scaling mobs with the players itemlevel or updating difficulty between patches. From the lessons in Cataclysm probably came the challenge modes in MoP, as a precursor to the Mythic difficulty and the M+ system today. This is one of the wrong lessons Blizzard learned: making things more difficult by doing everything on a timer. Harder = more damage, more HP, and shorter timer. Which lead to trying to cheese mechanics and the tank kiting meta, which probably no one really enjoyed.

Another big fuckup were some of the classes/specs, which were in a bad state. MoP is heralded as the saviour of some specs because Cataclysm was so bad. This smelled like some focusing on esports at the time, but I guess this was also in part because Kevin Jordan had left during WotLK, and the other class designers were stuck with a lot of legacy, and just tried to do what they felt right.
 
TJT

TJT

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Neranja said:
Maybe the WoW devs tried to play too hard into it, as it drove attention and clicks into these lore channels like Nobbel, Pyromancer, and Bellular. Or maybe they fucked the story/lore of WoW explicitly so the lore analysts of WoW would get off their back.

Or maybe this is a very long con of some ex-SOE employees, that are still salty that WoW stole all their players. If I remember correctly the TBC mount/boost was only announced after Holly joined Blizzard?
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You give them too much credit. Even at their absolute best Blizzard was mediocre when it came to lore and stories. They had decent and memorable characters but all of their stories were very basic. The Arthas storyline is probably the best they ever did. The problem with it is that they just kept trying to recreate the Arthas storyline with some ad libs horseshit. Every time they did this it just got worse. Right up until now with the Sylvanas version of it.
 
Neranja

Neranja

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Mist said:
The 3 things actually wrong with WoW:
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Sadly, the first two things are always heralded by WoW players as positive points.

Mist said:
Borrowed power.
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Sigh. I could go on a very long rant about what probably happened at Blizzard, and why they keep doing it, and still try to get away with it. But it would require a lot of history and explaining.

The current iteration (domination sockets) is probably the worst of its kind, and the first time we've seen a patch-specific borrowed power system that will be made irrelevant with the next patch/raid tier in the same expansion.
 
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TJT

TJT

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Neranja said:
Sadly, the first two things are always heralded by WoW players as positive points.


Sigh. I could go on a very long rant about what probably happened at Blizzard, and why they keep doing it, and still try to get away with it. But it would require a lot of history and explaining.

The current iteration (domination sockets) is probably the worst of its kind, and the first time we've seen a patch-specific borrowed power system that will be made irrelevant with the next patch/raid tier in the same expansion.
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I want to read this rant kind sir.
 
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Neranja

Neranja

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TJT said:
Even at their absolute best Blizzard was mediocre when it came to lore and stories.
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This isn't exclusively about the story and lore, this is also about the monetization: The WoW token enabling boosting sales, the 6 month subs lock-in with no content, the store mounts, the TBC boost and character copy, and the datamined TBC WoW token.

To be fair, in old Blizzard games the story always took a backseat to the gameplay. But now that they want to compete with other story-driven games with all those cutscenes and cinematics, the quality of the story has become far too on the nose to ignore. It's a problem they themselves made, by trying to get players interested in "the story", especially to sell them more merchandise.
 
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Cybsled

Cybsled

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The token thing is probably one of the most problematic things - rather than reduce player dependency on the resource (gold) so 3rd party RMT have less of a market, they decide to be the RMT and sell gold directly to the players and maintain the gold dependency in the game (by forcing large quantities of it are required for actual gameplay influencing stuff)

I see people complain about how gil "isn't worth anything" in FF14, but by that same stretch, there is less of a need to participate in RMT.
 
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Mist

Mist

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Cybsled said:
The token thing is probably one of the most problematic things - rather than reduce player dependency on the resource (gold) so 3rd party RMT have less of a market, they decide to be the RMT and sell gold directly to the players and maintain the gold dependency in the game (by forcing large quantities of it are required for actual gameplay influencing stuff)

I see people complain about how gil "isn't worth anything" in FF14, but by that same stretch, there is less of a need to participate in RMT.
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WoW tokens seem fine to me. It's like PLEX in EVE which was a good system.

It's better than just deleting having a player economy from the game by having a worthless currency.

I really don't get the FF14 affection. It's got shitty pvp, a shitty economy, the only thing it has are cutscenes and catgirls. Just play a single player game, or something like Monster Hunter.
 
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xmod2

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Maybe it's because I mained rogue, but modern WoW is one of the less offensive when it comes to 'needless filler abilities'.

EQ2 is obviously the worst, but FF14 has a bunch of less impactful feeling buttons with their whole "we need off GCD stuff for you to press so you don't get bored between GCDs" style rotations. I don't mind it, but I definitely need more keybinds for FF14 than WoW.

As for borrowed power, it's pretty simple. If you add abilities/talents every single xpac, you're going to end up with a ton of bloat. You'll need to constantly refactor/rework the class to make it work (which is what they used to do, your rotation changed every xpac). Around WoD they just decided that it was too big a pita to work around and figured if you only have those abilities/features for a single expansion, then they can limit the 'damage' they do to the game. This is also why they tend to abandon systems each expansion which is why WoW feels like it is lacking so much content vs something like FF14. It's why we have 4 different iterations of the garrison table instead of just having that system evolved/improved. Ultimately, they had a 'game developer' problem and they solved it in a way that is not fun. Even when you hear them defend it, they're basically saying how hard it is to keep adding abilities and shit. Like, no one gives a fuck that your job is hard dude, we just want a fun game. I don't want shitty food at the restaurant and then the chef is like "oh it's just easier for me to make it shitty".
 
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xmod2

xmod2

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Mist said:
WoW tokens seem fine to me. It's like PLEX in EVE which was a good system.
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PLEX and krono are way more interesting systems since they can actually be held and traded around as items in game. They also give you an inflation resistant vehicle to invest your in-game currency in. WoW tokens, on the other hand, are almost exactly like buying gold directly from Blizzard.
 
xzi

xzi

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Neranja said:
Or maybe this is a very long con of some ex-SOE employees, that are still salty that WoW stole all their players. If I remember correctly the TBC mount/boost was only announced after Holly joined Blizzard?
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who cares about Holly, Steve Danuser wrote on EQ 2 and EQN and then joined WoW and went 3 inches deep into being full on Sylvanas simp and now look where that's gotten us

as far as I'm concerned that motherfucker owes me 100$ for me being a retard buying EQN, and now he owes me like another 300$ for every single storybeat he's written since Legion
 
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Mist

Mist

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xmod2 said:
PLEX and krono are way more interesting systems since they can actually be held and traded around as items in game. They also give you an inflation resistant vehicle to invest your in-game currency in. WoW tokens, on the other hand, are almost exactly like buying gold directly from Blizzard.
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This is true.
 
Mist

Mist

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xmod2 said:
Maybe it's because I mained rogue, but modern WoW is one of the less offensive when it comes to 'needless filler abilities'.
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Outlaw Rogues were one of the few unfucked classes, where you actually could pool energy to between GCDs, but they definitely found ways to fuck it up by making you maintain RTB and SnD at the same time, which absolutely no one asked for.
 
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