World of Warcraft: Current Year

They need to add more social features, crazy that they haven't really added anything of substance over the life of the game.

They did add anti-social features like M+ timelimits and key bricking.

moonarchia said:

Welp, I have played once in the past two weeks, and I am not missing it. Time to cancel sub and focus on other games for a few months/years.

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Tracks with my experience. You are not alone.

I had fun in M+ in Shadowlands (even played season 2 which I rarely do) and had a good time in Dragonflight Season 1. (Keystone Hero)

This isn't working and Blizzard is aware of it. +6 keys are out of line with past difficulty to +8 there is a known massive difficulty gap. +7 to +8 is also identified as a problem.

Not sure what they're going to do about it. Tanks and healers are having problems with it the most. And then the crest system being directly tied to M+ exclusively has been identified as a major content bottleneck.

Additionally an 11 key and 12 key is very different from a 10 key, but the reward is lackluster and nonexistent for the effort.



There is a serious reward issue-- even if you try to do these keys and put the time in, there is not enough payoff and reward.

Glad people are starting to speak up and take a stand.

lost said:

Ya same here. Mythic dungeons just seem like PITA to get into as a dps unless you're a meta class and half people dont knw wtf theyre doing.

I run some heroic raid once a week on my rogue, but I dont see the point anymore. Been doing pvp blitz more than pve. my rogue is only 615 ilvl, dh is 610 and spriest is 605 but delves are kind of lame now. Wish they had like dungeon finder for mythic+ at least. and dont brick keys until what, +10 or higher?

I get hero track gear outside of mythic+ and to get better than that I have to suffer through long queues on lower keys w/ shitty pugs just to raise my mythic score to get into the +10 for gear that would upgrade me.

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Don't forget having to time a ridiculous amount of keys with PUGs to get the crests to upgrade the upgrades you get. If you don't make time you get barely any gilded crests (5 crests for finishing a hard key is a joke) and the reward chest at the end is a joke with 50 gold in it. Most people don't win any loot from a successful key. It's the worst M+ has ever been in any expansion.

I'm 618 ilevel and no plan to push higher. I normally complete season 1 and completely max my ilevel to Mythic raid tier. This expansion is the first time in years that I won't be doing that.

jayrebb said:

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The actual graph is a very easy horizonal line for the entire levelling and initial gearing experience. Then you get the green line for delves, M0 and LFG raids. The red line for M+ is much steeper.

It's insane how they want an accessible retard easy game for Blizzard employees and a difficult eSport game for sponsored raiders, with no thought as to their actual audience inbetween.

Chris said:

The actual graph is a very easy horizonal line for the entire levelling and initial gearing experience. Then you get the green line for delves, M0 and LFG raids. The red line for M+ is much steeper.

It's insane how they want an accessible retard easy game for Blizzard employees and a difficult eSport game for sponsored raiders, with no thought as to their actual audience inbetween.

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I like how they whimsically hotfix changed Gilded Crests from +9 key to +8 key out of the blue, but failed to meaningfully address the problem. No PUGs were ever timing 8's consistently. 8 was ALWAYS getting bricked left and right from the start of the game, up until now. Not even a single core player wasn't aware that 8's are bricked nonstop. This has never been in question. Anyone in keys knows this. An average PUG was timing 7's, and that's fucking it.

The content creator in the video says based on the data Gilded should really be dropping off a +6 key if Blizzard is serious about accessibility. I just ran a +6 key a few days ago, and despite the fact I have time on a 10, completion on another 10, and some 9 pushes-- this 6 key fucking punched us in the mouth. It was a reminder of how hard it is to PUG this shit and how dogshit the reward is. +8 just didn't go far enough to address the crests problem. Not enough crests are dropping. Completing an 8, time or not should yield the same crests. So yeah, good try Blizz, glad you are aware of the problem but we get yet another half-step half-ass mea culpa "solution".

jayrebb said:

I like how they whimsically hotfix changed Gilded Crests from +9 key to +8 key out of the blue, but failed to meaningfully address the problem. No PUGs were ever timing 8's consistently. 8 was ALWAYS getting bricked left and right from the start of the game, up until now. Not even a single core player wasn't aware that 8's are bricked nonstop. This has never been in question. Anyone in keys knows this. An average PUG was timing 7's, and that's fucking it.

The content creator in the video says based on the data Gilded should really be dropping off a +6 key if Blizzard is serious about accessibility. I just ran a +6 key a few days ago, and despite the fact I have time on a 10, completion on another 10, and some 9 pushes-- this 6 key fucking punched us in the mouth. It was a reminder of how hard it is to PUG this shit and how dogshit the reward is. +8 just didn't go far enough to address the crests problem. Not enough crests are dropping. Completing an 8, time or not should yield the same crests. So yeah, good try Blizz, glad you are aware of the problem but we get yet another half-step half-ass mea culpa "solution".

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I mean I am pugging 10's at 624 ilvl without ever stepping into a raid or having a static group (or even static person) as a FURY WARRIOR. Guess how not meta I am. Expect to hit 2500 rating this week (this weeks affix's made me tired).

IDK I see the issues everyone here is saying, I just think its surmountable till 12's or so.

• Get rid of the Key system altogether. Complete the previous difficulty of that dungeon and you can move up.
• Get rid of the Timer. 1 death, 100 deaths, it doesnt matter. Completion is king.
• Implement a League of Legends type of rating system, purely based off being socially nice.
• Revamp the difficulty curve so that the rise in difficulty is consistent.

There, I fixed Mythic+ in one fell swoop. Eliminates most of the anxiety, and stress that a lot of people feel during higher keys that directly feeds into mistakes they wouldnt make on a lower key - and by extension, lowers the toxicity level of other players because one group wipe doesnt fuck over a key.

Obviously Blizzard doesnt want anything like this, but if I was in charge - these changes would take effect immediately.

As far as Delves go with crests? Let me preface this by saying they need to add a lot more activities when it comes to completing delves. They could look at games like Division, or Warframe etc. to get some inspiration on the types of missions they could design in those spaces. But once thats done - I dont see why it would be a big deal for 2 crests to drop from every type of chest that you get at the end of a bountiful run. So 4 crests in a bountiful without a key, 6 crests with a key, 8 crests with a key and a map.

It ends up still being significantly less over the week for a direct time comparison to mythic+.

Juvarisx said:

I mean I am pugging 10's at 624 ilvl without ever stepping into a raid or having a static group (or even static person) as a FURY WARRIOR. Guess how not meta I am. Expect to hit 2500 rating this week (this weeks affix's made me tired).

IDK I see the issues everyone here is saying, I just think its surmountable till 12's or so.

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Surmountable to what end though. You acknowledge there's a huge gap between a 10 and a 12. Lack of appropriate rewards even for people who choose to press on and do the content.

That's why people are speaking up, and some are choosing to throw in the towel-- until they do a full overhaul of the reward system.

Stopped at 2300 this week, and no plans to push further until there is a content patch.

jayrebb said:

Surmountable to what end though. You acknowledge there's a huge gap between a 10 and a 12. Lack of appropriate rewards even for people who choose to press on and do the content.

That's why people are speaking up, and some are choosing to throw in the towel-- until they do a full overhaul of the reward system.

Stopped at 2300 this week, and no plans to push further until there is a content patch.

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TBH I view anything over a 10 as a pure dick measuring contest. You get portals, title and myth track at 10, full 626 at 8 (and full 636 via crafting over a season), full 619 at 4. I mean I guess they can lower gilded to 7, but there is very little difference between 7 and 8 tbh. I think the main thing they need to change and whats not been discussed here at all is the affix at 6. Its super duper punishing, and while I get its to promote people to use the full tools of their class, it just doesn't work for the majority of the M+ playerbase. I get they want to have static runs for the MDI and +12 crowd but they can come up with something better.

Juvarisx said:

TBH I view anything over a 10 as a pure dick measuring contest. You get portals, title and myth track at 10, full 626 at 8 (and full 636 via crafting over a season), full 619 at 4. I mean I guess they can lower gilded to 7, but there is very little difference between 7 and 8 tbh. I think the main thing they need to change and whats not been discussed here at all is the affix at 6. Its super duper punishing, and while I get its to promote people to use the full tools of their class, it just doesn't work for the majority of the M+ playerbase. I get they want to have static runs for the MDI and +12 crowd but they can come up with something better.

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Double Gilded for 11+ would be a start. At least some type of reward for pushing content. Like the video said gold reward should probably be upped to 1,500g in high keys and the chest could have some crafting regents or stuff in it. It's just so barren. Think the only solution is to bring back the currency system from prior expacs, where you gain currency you can spend on items targeted to the M+ item you want. Even if they redistribute crests across delvs and keys, people are still going to be demanding more carrots and reward for pushing high keys. Currency needs to make a comeback.

5PM Eastern for the update tomorrow so that actually means like 10PM Eastern that they'll actually finish it up.

jayrebb said:

Double Gilded for 11+ would be a start. At least some type of reward for pushing content. Like the video said gold reward should probably be upped to 1,500g in high keys and the chest could have some crafting regents or stuff in it. It's just so barren. Think the only solution is to bring back the currency system from prior expacs, where you gain currency you can spend on items targeted to the M+ item you want. Even if they redistribute crests across delvs and keys, people are still going to be demanding more carrots and reward for pushing high keys. Currency needs to make a comeback.

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That goes a long ways towards people like myself that seem to have terrible luck getting the exact pieces I want. It would make me play a bit longer, but thats about it.

It just doesnt fix the problem. Just like Raiding, the WoW Dev team could give us an entire dissertation on how to be antisocial, exclusionary, and toxic. We've been cutting Timmy out of the raids for years now because if our DPS isnt high enough, we wont pass the the enrage timer. If we didnt have an Enrage Timer - we dont want to carry him, but at least we "could" carry him if he fucked up. Right?

Same concept with this bullshit. Get rid of the keys and the timer, and all of this goes away. I'd say get rid of all the hooks and plugs for Raider IO too - but I honestly dont care about it anymore. I dont feel like its a relevant gauge at how well a player plays the game anymore. Ive had 400's that knew every inch of the dungeon and Ive also had 2k+ IO's that made me feel like they've never stepped foot in that dungeon before. Carried? Sure, that happens. But that just helps me prove my point that its just a useless fucking system that encourages toxicity for the people on the bottom end of it.

Nearing 2500 on my main ele shaman (625 or 626) and my hunter (think im 5 pts off, 620 but have 180 crests to burn after i see vault). Recently sat down and redid my entire UI and shit as I was not doing great in 10's. First mythics ive ever done having not played in 10+ years but its been fun and very painful at the same time. People leaving 85% into a 10 because a wipe possibly means we don't time makes me scratch my head. Still worth finishing for crests and few people running capped crests atm.

Raids have been fun as well, been farming first 2 bosses for few weeks and got sikren down to 6% 3 times now....we were pugging it and decided to make a guild this week that raids on the weekend so i am happy.

Its been interesting coming back, alot to soak in having not played a MMO serious for years and gotten slower eyes and reflexes as I get old as dirt But still doing enough to not get kicked i suppose! I actually think M8 is the right level to give g.crests, well i guess that depends when new content comes out and makes this all useless (?).

Sub gone. One thing I would like to see in the future is to make crafting an actual alternative to mythics and raiding. Give crafters weekly bits that can be combined into the same tokens mythics and raiders get. Or living gear that grows over time without needing currencies and shit.

Basically stop locking people into 1 or 2 paths that take forever and a day.

Araxen said:

5PM Eastern for the update tomorrow so that actually means like 10PM Eastern that they'll actually finish it up.

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Says 3 PM Satan Time now so 6 PM God's Time. le sigh, i hate having my work schedule sometimes. Tuesday is always a day off....

moonarchia said:

Sub gone. One thing I would like to see in the future is to make crafting an actual alternative to mythics and raiding. Give crafters weekly bits that can be combined into the same tokens mythics and raiders get. Or living gear that grows over time without needing currencies and shit.

Basically stop locking people into 1 or 2 paths that take forever and a day.

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Crafting has all that stuff and more. Doesnt matter though, because you've already seen through the veil.

Delves will gear a person up to ~610 on the very first day they reach 80. The following week, with the crafting tokens and the maps, theyll get up to around 613. The next week, another 2-3 item level gain.

Delves were a double edged blade. They were a great addition to the game for the casual audience. But the rewards that they distribute, at the low difficulty they are - flooded everyones item level. If I had the data spread sheet, I would be willing to bet there are more people that are in the Heroic Raiding item level range than there have ever been in the past. So.. at 613-616... Tell me, where would a person logically go to get an upgrade from there? Are they going to ideally want to farm out a bunch of crests? Or are they going to want to walk right into a +7 or higher, and start there? Or, are they going to want a chance at side upgrades or fill in missing spots with Heroic raiding? Or start at Mythic raiding tier?

Then the realization that neither of those are viable options and give up. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to see how poorly thought out all of this was.

Delves will absolutely not get someone to 610 on the day they reach 80.

Ritley said:

Delves will absolutely not get someone to 610 on the day they reach 80.

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You're correct, I should have said that it was a major contributor. I got two maps on my shaman in the first week. So 4 pieces of 603, two pieces of 610, followed by two sparks, and one 619 rune, then a few pieces off the auction house that werent all that expensive, but were 606-610. That put me at 611 iirc? I hated healing, so I kind of dropped him. But hey.. if it took you longer, Im sorry.

PS. Oh, almost forgot about the faction gear that filled in some weak spots. Better yet, they've raised the item level since launch on the lower end - so now its even EASIER to get to ~610 on the first day.

Except you don’t have the faction on day one at 80 to get that gear? And do you actually get a full spark of omens to even craft one piece the first week let alone two?

But yeah first week might possible if you get extremely lucky. If the weekly quest is up for heroic dungeons that’s another 619 piece, plus vault. My experience is 95% of the drops you get from delves will be some variant of a candle trinket though.