2013 NFL Offseason and Draft

Djay · Feb 27, 2013

BurnemWizfyre_sl said:
There is no guarantee Barkley will be there in the 2nd round, this just makes it more likely he will be there in the 2nd round because you remove a team that might have drafted Smith #1. Bottom line is that Buffalo will take Smith if he is there at 8, if Arizona or a less likely scenario Oakland scoops him up before Buffalo then Buffalo will be forced to draft Barkley possibly trading down and then doing so later in the first. The earlier Smith goes the better for Barkley but Smith is not making it past pick #8 and if he goes before #8 then Barkley will be #8.

Neither of those QBs should go that high. There's too much better talent in other positions. This is the same thing that happens every year...people start moving bad QBs up the list because they feel they have to pick a QB in the 1st round no matter that there isn't a 1st round quality QB there. It's like the KC fans in that thread complaining about not using the #1 pick on a QB. I wasn't saying Barkley would definitely be there in the 2nd...my point was the value of that pick is higher than they got back.

Edit* And you're right that they probably will both go in the 1st. They shouldn't, though.

Araysar · Feb 27, 2013

Djay_sl said:
I'd use a 2nd on him. I haven't been a fan of any other recent USC QB...and when people were talking about him as a Top 10 pick if he came out last year, I was against that, but I think he's better than the poo platter of Trojan QBs that came out before him.

Carson Palmer had better college stats than Barkley, won more awards and still ended up being a mediocre NFL QB. He is the best USC QB to come out of that school and he was still average by NFL standards.

At best, I expect Barkley to fall somewhere between Leinart and Palmer, meaning he will be a bench warmer on a mediocre team, or a starter on the worst NFL team that is completely devoid of all QB options, or the Dolphins.

Djay · Feb 27, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
Carson Palmer had better college stats than Barkley, won more awards and still ended up being a mediocre NFL QB. He is the best USC QB to come out of that school and he was still average by NFL standards.

That's cool. I wasn't evaluating them based on their stats, though. Carson Palmer's stats with a different coach, set of players, and competition than Barkley have no relevance on comparing how they might perform as pros.

Burnem Wizfyre · Feb 27, 2013

Djay_sl said:
Edit* And you're right that they probably will both go in the 1st. They shouldn't, though.

Agree 100% neither are worth a #1 pick.

SimSimSalabim · Feb 27, 2013

This was a steal for SF, the 34th pick and potentially a second pick. I wouldn't have expected anything higher than a 4th rounder for him. This was not the off season to try to make a big QB move to become a contender. Last year was the year to do so, when one of the greatest ever, Peyton, was available as well as the 2 highest rated (by most experts) QBs coming into a draftever. Alex Smith is/was the most desirable QB available in FA/trade/draft and there was no team that was an Alex Smith away from being playoff contenders, much less Super Bowl contenders. Barkley is a chump, overconfident** and has the USC pedigree which is awful. Geno Smith is only highly touted because of the success running (black) QBs had this season, but is a complete wild card and not worth risking a high pick or breaking the bank for. When these are the best options available you start looking to fill other holes and try to grab a better option at QB the next time around.

**I remember seeing Barkley on ESPN in the preseason throwing passes to an uncovered receiver and he declared that running the USC offense would be like playing a video game. Impressed that he was able to turn that into a 7-6 season.

Burnem Wizfyre · Feb 27, 2013

SimSimSalabim_sl said:
Geno Smith is only highly touted because of the success running (black) QBs had this season, but is a complete wild card and not worth risking a high pick or breaking the bank for. When these are the best options available you start looking to fill other holes and try to grab a better option at QB the next time around.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/...tuational.html

That is a rushing QB? By that definition then Christian Ponder is a better rushing (white) QB then Smith because he had more yards with less attemptshttp://www.nfl.com/player/christianp...495215/profile. I don't think you know very much about Smith to be quite honest with you because in his entire collegiate time he only had 342 yards and 4 TD's while rushing.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...o-smith-1.html

Gilgamel · Feb 27, 2013

I just can't wait til the Raiders take Tyler Bray.

I want Millner, Vaccaro or a guard for the Titans. Or Cordarrelle Patterson.

Burnem Wizfyre · Feb 27, 2013

Gilgamel_sl said:
I just can't wait til the Raiders take Tyler Bray.

I want Millner, Vaccaro or a guard for the Titans. Or Cordarrelle Patterson.

I hope you take anyone but a guard

SimSimSalabim · Feb 27, 2013

BurnemWizfyre_sl said:
http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/...tuational.html

That is a rushing QB? By that definition then Christian Ponder is a better rushing (white) QB then Smith because he had more yards with less attemptshttp://www.nfl.com/player/christianp...495215/profile. I don't think you know very much about Smith to be quite honest with you because in his entire collegiate time he only had 342 yards and 4 TD's while rushing.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...o-smith-1.html

Just because he didn't run a lot in college doesn't mean he can't. He fits the mold of the current NFL trend of looking for the throwing QB that has the athletic ability to scramble and run when he needs to, even to the point of designing an offense around that ability (i.e. the read option). I shouldn't have classified them as running QBs, that was a failure/error on my part. They are solid to great passing from the pocket and could make a living doing just that, but then you add the speed factor. That's why Smith went from a 2nd-3rd round pick in most experts minds to late first early second round pick after he ran a 4.56 in the draft. He is not Griffin or Kaepernick fast, but he is Russell Wilson fast. He just isn't quite as good a passer as any of them. Like Kaepernick he played weak opponents in college, so he is a bit of a wild card and should drop into the second round because its unclear how his talents will translate into the NFL game.

Burnem Wizfyre · Feb 27, 2013

SimSimSalabim_sl said:
Just because he didn't run a lot in college doesn't mean he can't. He fits the mold of the current NFL trend of looking for the throwing QB that has the athletic ability to scramble and run when he needs to, even to the point of designing an offense around that ability (i.e. the read option). I shouldn't have classified them as running QBs, that was a failure/error on my part. They are solid to great passing from the pocket and could make a living doing just that, but then you add the speed factor. That's why Smith went from a 2nd-3rd round pick in most experts minds to late first early second round pick after he ran a 4.56 in the draft. He is not Griffin or Kaepernick fast, but he is Russell Wilson fast. He just isn't quite as good a passer as any of them. Like Kaepernick he played weak opponents in college, so he is a bit of a wild card and should drop into the second round because its unclear how his talents will translate into the NFL game.

Tony Romo can run to but no one in their right man would call him a rushing QB, he is a scrambler and is so is Smith.

I agree with you that athletically he is probably capable of running the option and running, it's just not what he did in college at all.

ham · Feb 27, 2013

god lol at the Smith deal. I assumed it would be a mid rounder. who were the Chiefs bidding with to give up the 34th pick in the draft? wow

Burnem Wizfyre · Feb 27, 2013

ham_sl said:
god lol at the Smith deal. I assumed it would be a mid rounder. who were the Chiefs bidding with to give up the 34th pick in the draft? wow

You honestly think the Browns aren't capable of offering a 2nd? Normally I would have gone with the Raiders but Al Davis is dead and before anyone gives me shit about Jerry Jones this is a QB not a WR, he only trades away our future for WR's not QB's.

Djay · Feb 27, 2013

BurnemWizfyre_sl said:
You honestly think the Browns aren't capable of offering a 2nd? Normally I would have gone with the Raiders but Al Davis is dead and before anyone gives me shit about Jerry Jones this is a QB not a WR, he only trades away our future for WR's not QB's.

The Browns don't have a 2nd round draft pick this year, so...no...I don't think they're capable of offering a 2013 2nd rounder.

Disp_sl · Feb 27, 2013

It's not as bad of a deal as some people are making it out to be. The Chiefs biggest problem last year was turnovers and they instantly get a QB who's good at limiting interceptions. Finding a franchise qb in the first 2 rounds is no sure thing, especially this year with so little QB talent. Take a look at the qb's drafted in the first 2 rounds over the last 4 years:

2009: Stafford, Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Pat White
2010: Bradford, Tebow, Jimmy Clausen
2011: Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Dalton, Kaepernick
2012: Luck, Griffin, Tannehill, Weeden, Osweiller

Half of them turned out to be shitty players, and only about half a dozen of them have bright futures. With Smith he gets a competent qb right now, and can draft a qb in the later rounds this year, or early next year to be the future starter. He would've hung himself this year sticking with Cassell or reaching for Geno Smith.

Araysar · Feb 27, 2013

Disp_sl said:
It's not as bad of a deal as some people are making it out to be. The Chiefs biggest problem last year was turnovers and they instantly get a QB who's good at limiting interceptions. Finding a franchise qb in the first 2 rounds is no sure thing, especially this year with so little QB talent. Take a look at the qb's drafted in the first 2 rounds over the last 4 years:

2009: Stafford, Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Pat White
2010: Bradford, Tebow, Jimmy Clausen
2011: Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Dalton, Kaepernick
2012: Luck, Griffin, Tannehill, Weeden, Osweiller

Half of them turned out to be shitty players, and only about half a dozen of them have bright futures. With Smith he gets a competent qb right now, and can draft a qb in the later rounds this year, or early next year to be the future starter. He would've hung himself this year sticking with Cassell or reaching for Geno Smith.

I would literally take all of those guys with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 over Alex Smith

Disp_sl · Feb 27, 2013

You think Cutler is good. Your opinion on quarterbacks is irrelevant.

Recent qb trades:
Kolb: 2nd rd. and Cromartie
Palmer: 1'st and 3'rd
Cassel: 2nd rd.
Smith: 2nd and 2nd/3rd

Alex · Feb 27, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
I would literally take all of those guys with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 over Alex Smith

Dude WTF. Sanchez, White, Tebow, Clausen, Weeden, Osweiller, Ponder, Gabbert, Locker. All unquestionably worse than Smith. STFU man.

Sutekh · Feb 27, 2013

He thinks Tannehill is better than Smith

DDD.

Also Pat White doesn't play in the NFL anymore, he played one play got a concussion, said fuck it, retired, went to the MLB.

Two of those QB's went to Miami -.-

BrutulTM · Feb 27, 2013

Alex Smith is a great example of why drafting a QB #1 can fuck your team for years. The Chiefs aren't going to the Superbowl next year, probably not even the playoffs, and Alex will probably be fine as a QB for them and is more of a known quantity than anyone that they could have drafted in the second round with that pick. I don't see anything wrong with this trade. As was pointed out, it's a fuckload better deal than the Cutler trade was. If you don't think that the guys available in the draft this year are sure-fire franchise QB material, you would be stupid to pick them at #1.

I am glad he didn't go to Arizona since I didn't want to see him every year. Also, somebody on Dave Dameshek's podcast made a good point that if you're Arizona and your division rival is willing to trade you a quarterback, you should probably refuse it based on that alone.

So anyway, the 49ers now have 15 picks in this year's draft and a cheap quarterback for at least one more year. Based on that I am in favor of them trying to make a deal with the Jets for Darrelle Revis. With a shut down cornerback and a couple of high picks on the D-line the 9ers Defense would be a force to be reckoned with next year and it still leaves plenty of picks to get a WR or two and a backup QB.

Alex · Feb 27, 2013

Sutekh_sl said:
He thinks Tannehill is better than Smith

DDD.

Well, I did sayunquestionably. Tannehill showed enough decent play this season that he could be comparable to Smith.

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