Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

PatrickStar · Apr 12, 2016

Here's the deal with the Batman casting over the years. Batman doesn't vary much as a character as he is the static depiction. It's the Bruce Wayne portion that matters and how the actor(s) portrays him in relation to the tone of the movie. That is why Ben Affleck worked. Just like Keaton and a lessor extend Bale.

Jait · Apr 12, 2016

New Batman movie written by, directed by, produced by and starring Ben Affleck.. Yay!

Warner Bros. confirms standalone Batman movie with Ben Affleck

Arbitrary · Apr 12, 2016

He'll do a good job, the movie will do great, and it'll be what gives the flailing DC cinematic universe some direction.

Palum · Apr 12, 2016

I just don't understand how DC can be so mediocre compared to Marvel despite having some decent backstory and actors.

Jait · Apr 12, 2016

Palum_sl said:
I just don't understand how DC can be so mediocre compared to Marvel despite having some decent backstory and actors.

My theory is they don't stick to the characters. I've beaten it to death as have many others. You have to first remove the .0001% which are the nerds who actually read comic books. The other 99% believe these two things:

Superman is a boy scout.
Batman is a more violent "detective", but neither kills.

Fucks sake Batman didn't even kill the Joker when he lost his bff/girl of his dreams in the movie before last. They went nowhere near these two things. They have completely lost the audience. These movies will still rake in big sums of money, and will define the generation to come simply because they're lucrative, not because everyone really likes them. Your kids and grandkids will all grow up thinking this is what Batman and Superman are. And it sucks.

edit: Marvel on the other hand, even when they have a shitty bullshit script that breaks from the source material...it's....still....fun.... I thought Avengers 2 sucked ass, except for Ultron, but I didn't shake my head and feel queasy for two hours.

LadyVex_sl · Apr 13, 2016

I do not get the people who are giving this movie a 6.5/10 and then saying it wasn't a bad movie.

Like, I don't rate shit like that unless I disliked it. I don't have to hate it, but 6.5 means it's never getting rewatched.

It feels like a weird phenomenon where people are giving it 3/5 stars and we're considering that "better than bad" somehow. RT has a better audience score than critic, but I started reading the 3 stars, and it's all negative beyond "I didn't hate it" or "I liked it, but". There's a few 4 stars but even those are pretty wishy washy. (It's also interesting that that score has done nothing but drop; the first time we looked at RT audience scores it was 84%; it's now dropped to 69%)

Anyways, I'm not bitching anyone out, I just think it's a weird thing. Like, is it because it's still a superhero movie, and because it's relevant to our interests, we have a hard time devaluing it? Or is it because the first wave was so negative on it that we went in expecting to pray to baby jesus that we could get 2 hours back and were surprised it didn't go that way?

I dunno man, but 6.5 out of 10 is a bad movie. Even if you liked it, if you can't get it beyond that, you have to sort of realize what that means.

Shonuff · Apr 13, 2016

LadyVex_sl said:
I do not get the people who are giving this movie a 6.5/10 and then saying it wasn't a bad movie.

Like, I don't rate shit like that unless I disliked it.

It was still a beautiful looking movie, with great fighting. It did cost $400 million. As one critic said, this movie was a "beautiful disaster."

Royal · Apr 13, 2016

LadyVex_sl said:
I do not get the people who are giving this movie a 6.5/10 and then saying it wasn't a bad movie.

It depends on how stingy you are with your 10's. 1-4 is clearly a bad movie. 5-7 varying degrees of meh. 8-9 solidly enjoyable. 10 = rock hard weekend

radditsu · Apr 13, 2016

Jait_sl said:
My theory is they don't stick to the characters. I've beaten it to death as have many others. You have to first remove the .0001% which are the nerds who actually read comic books. The other 99% believe these two things:

Superman is a boy scout.
Batman is a more violent "detective", but neither kills.

Fucks sake Batman didn't even kill the Joker when he lost his bff/girl of his dreams in the movie before last. They went nowhere near these two things. They have completely lost the audience. These movies will still rake in big sums of money, and will define the generation to come simply because they're lucrative, not because everyone really likes them. Your kids and grandkids will all grow up thinking this is what Batman and Superman are. And it sucks.

edit: Marvel on the other hand, even when they have a shitty bullshit script that breaks from the source material...it's....still....fun.... I thought Avengers 2 sucked ass, except for Ultron, but I didn't shake my head and feel queasy for two hours.

They are OBSESSED with Dark Knight Returns/ Killing Joke 1985 Batman comics. Even Suicide Squad is a mid 80/late 80s project. They continually forget that what makes them different than marvel is the scope of the Iconography of the characters. They are Aspects of humanity. They are not "human". Marvel only has a few real analogues to the power scale of the DC Trinity. And its mostly Cosmic people like Thanos or Apocolypse. Superman is the HIGHEST of the high concept, and they make him a shitty person. Batman fights the IDEA of crime, and they have him indescrimately murder. Wonder Woman is the IDEAL of truth and compassion (when she aint a bondage fetishist) and they can't even hire someone that can speak.

DC has been obsessed with deconstruction of their characters for the last 35 years. It wears thin. Alan Moore, the ultimate deconstructionist, wrote "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow", and it was a perfect way to deconstruct and "end" PRE Crisis Superman and not ruin his character. But then we have Dark Knight returns, which is a story of the end of fucking Adam West 66 Batman, deconstructs the character in a way is unrecognizable. And they KEEP BEATING THAT GODDAMN DRUM.

It's like they dont realize that Batman has built a family of Robins, and Oracles, and Batwomen and Batgirls, and Birds of Prey, and Outsiders, and Spoilers, and Batmen of All Nations, and even Incorporated it into a worldwide global Initiative. Hundreds of wonderful stories.

Nope we have to go back those five years where a Robin got beat to death with a crowbar and dude was super sad.

Amzin · Apr 13, 2016

LadyVex_sl said:
I do not get the people who are giving this movie a 6.5/10 and then saying it wasn't a bad movie.

Like, I don't rate shit like that unless I disliked it. I don't have to hate it, but 6.5 means it's never getting rewatched.

It feels like a weird phenomenon where people are giving it 3/5 stars and we're considering that "better than bad" somehow. RT has a better audience score than critic, but I started reading the 3 stars, and it's all negative beyond "I didn't hate it" or "I liked it, but". There's a few 4 stars but even those are pretty wishy washy. (It's also interesting that that score has done nothing but drop; the first time we looked at RT audience scores it was 84%; it's now dropped to 69%)

Anyways, I'm not bitching anyone out, I just think it's a weird thing. Like, is it because it's still a superhero movie, and because it's relevant to our interests, we have a hard time devaluing it? Or is it because the first wave was so negative on it that we went in expecting to pray to baby jesus that we could get 2 hours back and were surprised it didn't go that way?

I dunno man, but 6.5 out of 10 is a bad movie. Even if you liked it, if you can't get it beyond that, you have to sort of realize what that means.

3/5 is SUPPOSED to mean "average", which is better than bad. Rating-flation has occured over the years to where even 4 stars usually means something wasn't right. I personally gave it 2/5 FWIW.

Shonuff · Apr 13, 2016

Jait_sl said:
My theory is they don't stick to the characters. I've beaten it to death as have many others. You have to first remove the .0001% which are the nerds who actually read comic books. The other 99% believe these two things:

Superman is a boy scout.
Batman is a more violent "detective", but neither kills.

Fucks sake Batman didn't even kill the Joker when he lost his bff/girl of his dreams in the movie before last. They went nowhere near these two things. They have completely lost the audience. These movies will still rake in big sums of money, and will define the generation to come simply because they're lucrative, not because everyone really likes them. Your kids and grandkids will all grow up thinking this is what Batman and Superman are. And it sucks.

edit: Marvel on the other hand, even when they have a shitty bullshit script that breaks from the source material...it's....still....fun.... I thought Avengers 2 sucked ass, except for Ultron, but I didn't shake my head and feel queasy for two hours.

I couldn't agree more. As far as my kids go, we are showing them the old Superman movies, so they have something to compare the new Superman to. They are more drawn to Christopher Reeves. My kids would rather watch Superman IV than this new BS. This weekend they were demanding to see it.

DickTrickle · Apr 13, 2016

LadyVex_sl said:
I do not get the people who are giving this movie a 6.5/10 and then saying it wasn't a bad movie.

Like, I don't rate shit like that unless I disliked it. I don't have to hate it, but 6.5 means it's never getting rewatched.

It feels like a weird phenomenon where people are giving it 3/5 stars and we're considering that "better than bad" somehow. RT has a better audience score than critic, but I started reading the 3 stars, and it's all negative beyond "I didn't hate it" or "I liked it, but". There's a few 4 stars but even those are pretty wishy washy. (It's also interesting that that score has done nothing but drop; the first time we looked at RT audience scores it was 84%; it's now dropped to 69%)

Anyways, I'm not bitching anyone out, I just think it's a weird thing. Like, is it because it's still a superhero movie, and because it's relevant to our interests, we have a hard time devaluing it? Or is it because the first wave was so negative on it that we went in expecting to pray to baby jesus that we could get 2 hours back and were surprised it didn't go that way?

I dunno man, but 6.5 out of 10 is a bad movie. Even if you liked it, if you can't get it beyond that, you have to sort of realize what that means.

There's no point in using a ten point scale if 6.5 is a bad movie that is unwatchable. Use letter grades since that's what you seem to be equating it to (in other words, BvS is a solid F). Or maybe a three or four star scale. If you have a 10 point scale and 65% of it describes bad, unwatchable movies, then you only have 3.5 points (or less) to differentiate decent/good/great movies.

For me, a 6.5 out of 10 means it's slightly above average. With five being average quality! It's just crazy enough to make actual sense.

Dashel · Apr 13, 2016

radditsu_sl said:
They are OBSESSED with Dark Knight Returns/ Killing Joke 1985 Batman comics. Even Suicide Squad is a mid 80/late 80s project. They continually forget that what makes them different than marvel is the scope of the Iconography of the characters. They are Aspects of humanity. They are not "human". Marvel only has a few real analogues to the power scale of the DC Trinity. And its mostly Cosmic people like Thanos or Apocolypse. Superman is the HIGHEST of the high concept, and they make him a shitty person. Batman fights the IDEA of crime, and they have him indescrimately murder. Wonder Woman is the IDEAL of truth and compassion (when she aint a bondage fetishist) and they can't even hire someone that can speak.

DC has been obsessed with deconstruction of their characters for the last 35 years. It wears thin. Alan Moore, the ultimate deconstructionist, wrote "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow", and it was a perfect way to deconstruct and "end" PRE Crisis Superman and not ruin his character. But then we have Dark Knight returns, which is a story of the end of fucking Adam West 66 Batman, deconstructs the character in a way is unrecognizable. And they KEEP BEATING THAT GODDAMN DRUM.

It's like they dont realize that Batman has built a family of Robins, and Oracles, and Batwomen and Batgirls, and Birds of Prey, and Outsiders, and Spoilers, and Batmen of All Nations, and even Incorporated it into a worldwide global Initiative. Hundreds of wonderful stories.

Nope we have to go back those five years where a Robin got beat to death with a crowbar and dude was super sad.

This was an interesting take. I was going to say DC does a horrible job with the character of their heroes (in the movies, not the comics). There is no Tony Stark development in DC, no Steve Rodgers to cheer for. Hell Marvel even makes me care about Clint Barton. I was watching some trailer reactions to the Captain America: Civil War trailer with the Spiderman reveal. One was a bunch of teen girls squealing "Oh there's Wanda! She's married to Vision in the comics! Oh I love Steve... I'm so happy Bucky is in this trailer!"

Marvel does that infinitely better than DC in their movies.

Ukerric · Apr 13, 2016

Ambiturner_sl said:
Unless you have the Rock play ever superhero, which would actually be pretty awesome.

Well, you DO know he's going to be Black Adam, right?

j00t · Apr 13, 2016

The biggest difference is there are ON SCREEN reasons in marvel movies if a character isn't a carbon copy of their comic book self. We have like, no real context for why Batman is old and bitter. I mean, we can assume since he's been doing this for 20 years. And there's the Robin suit... But we don't even know what Robin that is. We don't know what happened. There's no context for us to understand why he's like that. Then there's Superman. You can take certain comics that focus on one aspect of a character, killing joke, dark knight returns, etc but we understood these characteristics to be PART of the whole. Superman deals daily with how much stronger he is. The animated series had that fight with darkseid where Clark talks about living in a world made of paper. But he's MORE than just that thought. DC wants to focus on how alien Clark is.

People line Superman because he stands for something better. I'm not a Superman fanboy, but I understand what makes him fundamentally attractive. Then there's WW. I looked her in BvS but so far she's just a response to SJW's and the need for strong females. Again, WW is so much more than that.

Itzena_sl · Apr 13, 2016

Palum_sl said:
I just don't understand how DC can be so mediocre compared to Marvel despite having some decent backstory and actors.

Probably the same reasons why DC comics have been a dumpster fire for a while now while Marvel is doing...well, notgreat(a lot of their "big summer event" stories turn out to be mediocre) but at the very leastmostly competent.

LadyVex_sl · Apr 14, 2016

Royal_sl said:
It depends on how stingy you are with your 10's. 1-4 is clearly a bad movie. 5-7 varying degrees of meh. 8-9 solidly enjoyable. 10 = rock hard weekend

I guess I just don't see a lot of movies or games etc that get below a 5 in scoring in general; like it has to be an incomplete movie or a bvs version of twilight to get that low. Always seems like 5 is the real bottom of the scale.

Possible that I'm more looking at this from a gaming point of view; on most 1-10 scales for games, a 6.5 is generally a skippable game unless you're a fan of the series or studio in general.

Royal · Apr 14, 2016

Movies are generally a 3 hour investment + 8 to 14 bucks depending on stuff. A game is usually much more than that on both fronts so the ratings that one would consider skippable should be different for the two mediums.

Shonuff · Apr 14, 2016

LadyVex_sl said:
I guess I just don't see a lot of movies or games etc that get below a 5 in scoring in general; like it has to be an incomplete movie or a bvs version of twilight to get that low. Always seems like 5 is the real bottom of the scale.

Possible that I'm more looking at this from a gaming point of view; on most 1-10 scales for games, a 6.5 is generally a skippable game unless you're a fan of the series or studio in general.

Except you are paying alot more for a game, and not so much for a movie. You could watch the movie on HBO, have it sent in the mail for Netflix, or download/stream it for much less.

Ambiturner · Apr 14, 2016

Royal_sl said:
Movies are generally a 3 hour investment + 8 to 14 bucks depending on stuff. A game is usually much more than that on both fronts so the ratings that one would consider skippable should be different for the two mediums.

Yeah a bad movie kinda sucks, but playing a bad video game for 20-60 hours is soul crushing.

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

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