Boxing

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Last night was unique. Even when boxing was thriving, last night would have been unique and people have been saying boxing is dead for years. It sucks the casual fans felt robbed but the reality is, not every fight is going to be a war. Certainly not a mayweather fight. I think manny was the let down, not Floyd. He didn't take chances and for some crazy reason didn't fight on angles like he always has. Boxing is very secure going forward and if the casual fan just paid attention for even the next 3 months they'd be much more interested in the sport.
 

popsicledeath

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Convo;1085519I_sl said:
don't know how you can say it's stagnant when the fight last night is going to destroy PPV buys.
I would argue that it was such a huge money event because of the simple fact boxing is so stagnant. This was the ONE fight anyone has actually cared about for 5+ years. These were two of the few marketable fighters remaining. Everyone put all their hype and energy and marketing into this one fight because it was the only fight in a very, very long time that had any appeal or draw whatsoever.

If they only had one big, important MMA/UFC fight per year, or two of the biggest (and only) names left in UFC took 5 years building up to a fight, that fight would be a huge draw and hype train too.

This fight was so big because boxing is in the shitter, this was the only chance it had, and everyone wanted to believe boxing was still relevant so badly. When you're the only show left in town, yeah, you tend to be a pretty big draw.
 

Selix

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What is the reasoning behind 12 rounds and done? Why not just keep going until KO or TKO?
 

Convo

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I would argue that it was such a huge money event because of the simple fact boxing is so stagnant. This was the ONE fight anyone has actually cared about for 5+ years. These were two of the few marketable fighters remaining. Everyone put all their hype and energy and marketing into this one fight because it was the only fight in a very, very long time that had any appeal or draw whatsoever.

If they only had one big, important MMA/UFC fight per year, or two of the biggest (and only) names left in UFC took 5 years building up to a fight, that fight would be a huge draw and hype train too.

This fight was so big because boxing is in the shitter, this was the only chance it had, and everyone wanted to believe boxing was still relevant so badly. When you're the only show left in town, yeah, you tend to be a pretty big draw.
Boxing has lacked it's superstars. I admit that but there have been big ppvs in recent years. Mayweather-Canelo did a giant number. I don't think boxing cares to be relevant. Not the way the casual fans seem to think it should be. There is plenty of money and great fights being made. You Just need to enjoy the sport to care. Most people just don't care to follow boxing so it's funny to see them critique it in such an unfair way or have unrealistic expectations for one fight when all they have to is follow it for a few months and they'll see some great fights. There has been some amazing, relevant, top competition fights the last 3 months. If only the casual fan tuned in to watch them. I remember when people used to complain that buying a Tyson fight was a waste of money bc it only lasted 30secs. Boxing can never win with a casual fan because they only follow about 1% of what's actually going on.
 

Tarrant

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People who say Boxing is dead are the same people who say no one likes Soccer.

Basically ignorant people.
 

popsicledeath

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Boxing has lacked it's superstars. I admit that but there have been big ppvs in recent years. Mayweather-Canelo did a giant number. I don't think boxing cares to be relevant. Not the way the casual fans seem to think it should be. There is plenty of money and great fights being made. You Just need to enjoy the sport to care. Most people just don't care to follow boxing so it's funny to see them critique it in such an unfair way or have unrealistic expectations for one fight when all they have to is follow it for a few months and they'll see some great fights. There has been some amazing, relevant, top competition fights the last 3 months. If only the casual fan tuned in to watch them. I remember when people used to complain that buying a Tyson fight was a waste of money bc it only lasted 30secs. Boxing can never win with a casual fan because they only follow about 1% of what's actually going on.
It's a dangerous road to take as a spectator sport to basically go all hipster and say boxing doesn't care to be relevant. And we can kid ourselves about all this 'casual fan' bullshit, but there are plenty of people who used to be serious fans who just don't give a shit anymore. Why? Because boxing has far more problems than 'casual fans' just not being smart enough or cool enough to understand it or care.

The lack of superstars isn't some that just happens to occur, it's a byproduct of the state of the sport. Young people just aren't getting into boxing like they once did. Lot of reasons why they aren't, I suppose, but one seems to be that boxers don't make a living like they used to. Sure, those on the high end get rich (again, because the sport is so starved they become top heavy and throw the bulk of money and promotion into the very few fighters). But for boxing to be successful you need a lot of pretty good fighters there making a living pos interesting competition. Sure, they hope they may end up great, or win the fight of their life, but the reality is they were the foils. Boxing had a lot of pretty good fighters to fill these ranks traditionally. But now, it seems to be a constant stream of chumps being murdered by the few great fighters left, which just isn't exciting. So, we get a lot of foreign born fighters who are still buying into the dream of boxing, but that only goes so far, as American youth don't give a shit and there ends up a distinct lack of quality pool of fighters to make the typical fight pretty entertaining.

Also, fuck any sport that lets the participants themselves deciding who they'll compete against, when and on what terms. It's gotten worse than ever, with so many belts and so many fights not happening due to all the segregation and divide with just about everything. One huge advantage the UFC has is the fighters actually fight, and when they're told. I mean, they have the choice to refuse and have their career fucked, of course, but it's stark contrast to boxing where fighters can simply refuse to fight anyone of substance anytime they want. And when they lose in the UFC they don't drop off the face of the earth nearly as quickly as in boxing because they're expected to lose sometimes, since they're constantly pitted against high competition and come back to fight again. Boxing, you lose, and it's a huge hit to your ability to draw a crowd/purse unless you're one of the top fighters, because the won/lose records are so bullshit contrived, and everyone assumes that if you lost you have shit management or are SO bad you can't even win the fights that are practically staged for you to win.

I mean, I can't remember the last meaningful boxing match where I truly wasn't sure who would win. It's practically WWE at this point, and you assume if a big fighter like Mayweather agrees to a fight, he's 90% sure it'll be a cake walk, and 10% he'll still be able to pull it out if the other fighter shows some surprises. Think about it, it's true even for the biggest names, like this recent fight.

If Mayweather and Pacquiao were in the UFC they'd probably have more losses, because they'd be fighting actual competition, like each other far more than ONCE in the twilight of both their careers, and the fans and the sport would be better off for it. Sure, they wouldn't have made as much money, but fuck them for making hundreds of millions on an irrelevant fight like that shit the other day.

Saying boxing is dead is over board. The problem is fight promoters, managers and fighters have a stranglehold on the sport and they benefit while the sport and fans suffer. The business model of boxing has turned to shit. It's caused the potential competition to turn to shit. And the actual competition is also shit because nobody wants to fight anyone that might actually beat them.

I love boxing and don't think it's dead. But until they fix the issues it's going to continue on the decline.

imo, etc.
 

Convo

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Athletes have a lot of say now a days. Not just in boxing but every sport. It's not always about dodging fighters. Sometimes it is and sometimes it's just about money. It can get annoying but no sport is perfect. Hell Bowe threw his belt in a fucking trash can to not fight Lewis. People can point to UFC and I like their model but dana white is taking in the money while paying his fighters shit. Boxers are paid way better compared to those guys. Even the mid range guys.

Who hasn't Floyd or manny fought on their way up? They've basically cleaned out their divisions for Years. People knock Floyd but he even moved up and fought some of the top guys at 154. Canelo was a very dangerous fight for him. He took it and won. I agree that the top guys need to be fighting each other more often. It's been happening but networks and promoters still get in the way. Most recently Kovalev-Stevenson. It's a business and that hurts the sport.

My point is boxing has been awesome the last few years. The casual fan is actually missing out. Spend a few months actually watching it and you'll see. People want to tune into one right then judge an entire sport. It's silly and inaccurate.
 

popsicledeath

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For fuck sake, look through the list of current boxing champions and tell me that's at all exciting:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...xing_champions

Lots of foreigners, especially in higher weight classes, which doesn't get Americans excited. Yeah, it's a world-wide sport, but having America marginalized isn't good for the sport.

Why so many fucking champions, organizations and belts?

Why are there multiple champions under the same organization?! Oh, you're the undisputed champ? Sucks that I'm just the disputed one!

Why so many flawless records? Oh, they aren't fighting anyone worthwhile, much less each other!

Why the fuck are there VACANT belts? What, they couldn't get a deal anyone liked... hey, we just won't have a champion.

Why is Floyd Mayweather trying to get everyone to think he's the best ever, and in his primarly weight classes, he's only champion 6 out of 10 of the possible championship positions. The fucking fact I don't even know how to describe all the different available ways to be called champion is a problem. There are 10 championship opportunities, and he holds 6 of them (sharing some as the super champ or undisputed champ while there are other regular champs....). So, he's like 60% champ, and shares the champ position with some others.

Why isn't he fighting all these other champions to prove he's the only real champ?! Oh, because that's not the business model or best interest of a fighter to ensure their record stays pristine to help their legacy? Yeah, that's also exciting for the fans.


The business of boxing is a fucking joke. And that's nearly all it is anymore.
 

popsicledeath

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Athletes have a lot of say now a days. Not just in boxing but every sport. It's not always about dodging fighters. Sometimes it is and sometimes it's just about money. It can get annoying but no sport is perfect. Hell Bowe threw his belt in a fucking trash can to not fight Lewis. People can point to UFC and I like their model but dana white is taking in the money while paying his fighters shit. Boxers are paid way better compared to those guys. Even the mid range guys.

Who hasn't Floyd or manny fought on their way up? They've basically cleaned out their divisions for Years. People knock Floyd but he even moved up and fought some of the top guys at 154. Canelo was a very dangerous fight for him. He took it and won. I agree that the top guys need to be fighting each other more often. It's been happening but networks and promoters still get in the way. Most recently Kovalev-Stevenson. It's a business and that hurts the sport.

My point is boxing has been awesome the last few years. The casual fan is actually missing out. Spend a few months actually watching it and you'll see. People want to tune into one right then judge an entire sport. It's silly and inaccurate.
When was the last time the Spurs set their own schedules? Or the Patriots refused to play in the Super Bowl unless the other team agreed to their terms. When has an, umm, great golfer agreed he'd be in a tourney but only if he got paid 20% more for winning than if someone else won? Sure, athletes have more power than ever, but only in boxing do they really have a strangle hold. It wasn't better when the fighters had no power, but a balance has to be found. Just like, I agree, a balance between payouts in the UFC needs to be found, though it doesn't seem to be hurting the sport all that much.

Who hasn't Floyd and Manny fought on their way up? Ummm, each other, and what should have been like 3 times by now (and would have been in the 'old' days or in UFC).

Besides that, you do have a point they've fought who was available, eventually, but as discussed not much quality is even available and the matchups are usually highly skewed. After a boxer had their primer fights to get into championship contention, it used to seem like every fight was a potential land mine. Now, it's a surprise if any big name fighter doesn't have a one-sided fight, even in big fights, because the bigger fighter with more strings to pull waits, like this last fight, until it's so advantageous to them it's no longer a real contest. Or there simply isn't anyone of real interest TO fight.

I try to get back into boxing. There are a few good fights and a few good fighters, but overall it's really not that awesome. And let's not pretend everyone 'judging' the sport is just some casual fan who has only seen this last fight. There are a TON of potential fans who are just bored and discouraged by boxing, and find the UFC offers a more consistent, more interesting, more competitive combative sports experience.
 

Convo

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I'm still in Vegas and too drunk to respond. I'll just say I agree on some points and disagree on others.. I'll get back to you but a lot of what you post tends to be aimed at mayweather. The top guys are fighting each other in other divisions. The belts suck but only 4 really matter.
 

Vandyn

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What is the reasoning behind 12 rounds and done? Why not just keep going until KO or TKO?
Have you seen what has happened to past boxers and the effect on their health? In MMA/UFC you can at least tap out. Roberto Duran famously said 'No Mas' during a fight and lived with that his entire life.
 

LachiusTZ

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Thought about watching this, figured I would bootleg it after...

Looked on ESPN the morning after, 12 round decision? No thanks, not interested.