Civilization V: Brave New World

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
It was turned off for me. I had to reload in the game twice, the loading screen for my nation just appeared for no real reason, I certainly didn't disconnect from the internet. When that happened the third time I just alt F4ed out.

Every turn took the whole minute something that was allocated to players, then it took another 20 seconds to finish the turn, then it took another 20-30 seconds until the new turn started. Which is really fucking boring when all you do in that one turn is press "next turn" because your units are fortified for healing and your worker is busy.

It was a shame though, because despite that it was quite fun. I randomed Iroquois and was 10 tiles away from a Brazil player, who went wonder whoring. So my second Policy was getting honor and starting Zeus, when that was finished I had iron working so I started massing Mohawks. When I had 5, I had Honor 3 and a brand new Great General, so I moved out. Found El Dorado right next to him, I cant believe he missed that, and bought another two Mohawks. At that point I was at -5 GPT and came knocking. He thought it would be a good idea to place his only archer on his worker to protect him. Mohawks 1hit KO archers on plains. Three turns later I had Rio and he left the game
smile.png


But I couldn't imagine playing a full 300 turn game on that pace.
 

Nutron_sl

shitlord
712
0
The multiplayer code is pretty awful in this game indeed. Whenever I play with more than 1 person its just a constant desync fest of looking at the loading screen every couple turns. Unbearable. I had a game going on 470 turns with a friend that just started crashing on every load last night. Cool stuff like 20 hours down the drain cause we cant even finish it since it crashes everytime we load it up now. I really want to enjoy this game cause it has potential with this expac, but it's so damn buggy and broken :\
 

Amzin

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,917
361
I actually haven't had any connection issues playing with my brother online since the multiplayer patch was released a little before BNW came out. Had some random disconnects before that but nothing nearly that bad.
 

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJcuQQ1eWWI

The AI Designer for CIV4 doing an 1 hour apologist speech why CiV AI is so fucking horrible.

TLDS: you don't want the AI to try to win the game by beating the player, because that's not fun for the player.

But just skip to 26:00 and listen for yourself how the player has an advantage over the AI
 

Nutron_sl

shitlord
712
0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJcuQQ1eWWI

The AI Designer for CIV4 doing an 1 hour apologist speech why CiV AI is so fucking horrible.

TLDS: you don't want the AI to try to win the game by beating the player, because that's not fun for the player.

But just skip to 26:00 and listen for yourself how the player has an advantage over the AI
See thats the kind of thing I hate. I want the AI to feel like a brutal machine that makes no mistakes and goes for an absolute win. Instead I get a passive AI that is ridiculously bad or a massively cheating AI that only wins because of the cheats he got to get ahead at the start. Lose/lose.

I liked where he explained some of the diplomacy decisions etc where the AI seems to be better programmed.
 

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
I just lost it at the part where he stated the player has options the AI does not, and all he could give for examples was reloading and activating the world builder to create units -.-
 

Nutron_sl

shitlord
712
0
I just lost it at the part where he stated the player has options the AI does not, and all he could give for examples was reloading and activating the world builder to create units -.-
haha I was wondering what the fuck that was about as well. Let's make the computer super cheat because a human could reload a game...ok there.
 

Northerner

N00b
921
9
Yeah, that one was a bit of a dodge. No dev gives a shit if things feel broken when you are cheating or at least not in a game of this sort. There are a few genres where save scumming might be 'expected behavior' but unit and map editing? Come on now.
 

Nutron_sl

shitlord
712
0
Yeah, that one was a bit of a dodge. No dev gives a shit if things feel broken when you are cheating or at least not in a game of this sort. There are a few genres where save scumming might be 'expected behavior' but unit and map editing? Come on now.
Well theres other ways of preventing save scumming like the xcom hardcore mode where your save game keeps getting overwritten with your last actions. But even then, its the choice of the user, and hell there will always be a way for humans to cheat, its a terrible decision to make the ai cheat cause it then punishes everyone, not just the ones that might cheat..
 

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
Has anyone done any modding here?

How hard would it be to mod difficulties so I can play a game where the AI starts as Prince (no free units, free techs) and progresses as Immortal? I hate starting 100 turns behind just so the AI has a chance, because if I don't play a perfect start I'll just get destroyed late game by an army 1 era ahead. If I play on Prince or King, game is too easy
 

Brahma

Obi-Bro Kenobi-X
12,130
43,362
I play at King...The ONLY Wonders I pretty much have are those that require you to have a certain building in all cities. You can race to the later wonders and use engineers, but early game, like was mentioned, just sucks.

Being settled next to Shaka at King, this mutha doesn't stop spawning units to attack you with, forcing you to defend and getting even further behind!
 

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
I found a pretty cool mod that takes away Pottery from the AI in higher difficulty levels, which is basically the reason the AI beats you to the good Pantheons, first Religions and the Great Library every single game. Playing a game of Emperor without that and I actually managed to get a few ancient wonders..
 
Select Active Civilizations:
This allows you to determine which civilizations are active. Simply deactivate the civs that you don't want and they won't show up. Even when using randomly selected civilizations.
that sounds really neat, fuck seeing the Iroquois every other game and shitting out citites left and right while you are still struggeling to found your 4th
 

Rhuobhe

N00b
242
1
I like BNW but winning culture is very tedious on king+

Science is probably the easiest victory condition
 

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
that sounds really neat, fuck seeing the Iroquois every other game and shitting out citites left and right while you are still struggeling to found your 4th
I deselected all the hippy civilization because games in BNW are just too peaceful now with the normal mix.

But not when you play vs Montezuma, Shaka, Attila, Caesar, Napoleon and Genghis Khan.
 

Zajeer

Molten Core Raider
544
448
Anyone have suggestions on how to turtle and play the Tourism game well? I've been trying to do it with Brazil (jungles are -amazing- with Brazilwood + religion - I get a jungle thats 2 food, 2 gold, 2 science, and 3 culture output). However I've been unsuccessful so far. I've been building sets of items, but I get beat on most major culture based wonders early game.

I build 4 cities relatively early on, and then turtle up. However I feel like late game I actually have to instigate war to be able to progress.

Thoughts?
 

littles

Lord Nagafen Raider
509
93
At higher difficulties its nearly impossible to get all the wonders you want, so concentrating on a 3-4(Anything that increases your tourism and stacking all of the guilds in one city) is a good idea. You need your cities to be pumping out great people for the tourism and need to beeline towards Architecture(use fast units to hold artifact spots for you architects) Hotels,Airports, and The internet. One good strat is to save your accumilated faith for right when you get internet and then crank out a bunch of musicians for tourism bombs on the other civs, if done correctly you'll tourism bomb for 10k plus and flip those other cultures quickly. Other than that, make sure you have open borders/trade routes with everybody possible for the bonus that gives and its generally a good idea to go with the other civs when chosing freedom/order/autocracy etc...

check outhttp://forums.civfanatics.com/for more tips
 
new beta patch notes for the upcoming fall balance patch for BNW

Civ V Brave New World Fall Patch Notes
9/30/2013

[UI]
New map options on the Setup Game menu. Now, DLC map packs are grouped into folders without having to go to Advanced Setup. Additionally, all the extra maps are placed in an "Additional Maps" folder.
Warmonger UI improvements:
Now there are 4 different levels of concern displayed by the AI about the player's warmongering.
Added a tooltip to the city banner for each city owned by a civ you are at war with that shows the warmonger penalty and/or liberation bonus.
Added a tooltip for warmonger penalty and/or liberation bonus to the Annex/Liberate/Puppet popup.
Trade Route Improvement: Update the UI to reflect the change in Trade Route gold if a Trade Route policy is picked.
Added "Click to move" and "Click to view" radio buttons to improve the behavior of clicking on a great work in the "Your culture" tab.
Deal History tab on the diplomacy screen now shows more relevant information.
Air Combat Preview: added preview of damage your bombarding air unit would take. Note that this information does not include damage from intercepting aircraft or anti-air units.

[BALANCE]
Warmonger Penalty
Warmonger penalty for conquering a city is now halved with other civs that are also at war with the civ being conquered.
Make the building up of warmonger threats more exponential than linear (Minor - Major - Severe - Critical)

Research Agreements
Adjusted the cost for Research Agreements based on era. The cost increase should now be more linear to coincide with the gross gold-per-turn of AI civs, and also slightly cheaper when Research Agreements can first be used.
Will now only be cancelled with a Declaration of War or by elimination of one of the involved Civs. Denunciations no longer cause the RA to yield zero beakers upon completion of the agreement.
Both Civs will now only get the minimum of the two beaker counts (to balance out Rich getting Richer mechanic weakness).

Tourism: Further Benefits from Tourism when Influential with another Civ
Science (from Trade Routes)
Familiar: +1 Science per trade route
Popular: +2 Science per trade route
Influential: +3 Science per trade route
Dominant: +4 Science per trade route

Diplomacy/Espionage
Familiar: Just 1 turn to Establish Surveillance in influenced civ's cities
Popular: Surveillance boost (from above) plus Spies operate at an effective rank 1 level higher than actual rank in influenced civ's allied city states
Influential: Surveillance boost (from above) plus Spies operate at an effective rank 1 levels higher than actual rank in influenced civ's cities and allied city states
Dominant: Surveillance boost (from above) plus Spies operate at an effective rank 2 levels higher than actual rank in influenced civ's cities and allied city states

Conquest
Familiar: -25% reduction in Unrest time and Population loss
Popular: -50% reduction in Unrest time and Population loss
Influential: -75% reduction in Unrest time and Population loss
Dominant: no Unrest time; no Population lost
Abilities of Great Musician, Great Writer, and Great Scientist now scale properly based on game speed

Social Policies and Tenets
Social Policies: Added Mercenary Army social policy to Commerce (allows purchasing of Landsknechts). Trade Unions old effect (cheaper road/rail maintenance) moved to Wagon Trains.
Social Policies: Move double Trade Mission gold from Commerce finisher to Entrepreneurship.
Social Policies: Boost City-State trade bonus from +1 Gold to +2 Gold on Merchant Confederacy.
Social Policies: Merchant Navy now provides +4 Culture and +4 Production in the city with the East India Company.
Social Policies: Theocracy - Temples increase city gold output by 25% instead of 10%.
Social Policies: Boost Warrior Code from +25% to Great General creation up to +50%
Social Policies: Boost Navigation School to +50% Great Admiral points (to mirror the earlier change to Warrior Code for Great Generals).
Social Policies: Switch Ethics policy (Aesthetics tree) to Cultural Exchange (increase Tourism modifier for Open Borders, Shared Religion and Trade Routes by 15% each). The policy now gives bonuses to Open Border and Trade Routes.
Tenet: Order - Iron Curtain now also boosts yields on internal trade routes by 50% (on water routes the +100% modifier becomes +150%; effectively those only go up by 25% from 200% to 250%).
Tenet: Autocracy - Futurism now +250 Tourism for each Great Writer/Artist/Musician created (instead of +100).
Tenet: Weaken both bonuses from Arsenal of Democracy
Tenet: Spaceflight Pioneers: Remove +10 Science in Capital; add free Great Engineer and Great Scientist instead.
Tenet: Gunboat Diplomacy tenet now makes military units 50% more effective at intimidating City-States. Also rearranged tooltip text for bullying score so that the positive factors are always first, for readability

Civ-Specific Balance
Germany: Added the Hanse unique building (Replaces Bank, includes Bank bonuses, and +5 Production per City-State Trade Route across your civilization, not just cities that have a Hanse).
Germany: Boosted camp conversion rate to 67%.
Japan: Give Japan an Ocean start bias
Japan: Japan: Samurai can build fishing boats.
Japan: Bushido has a new additional effect: +1 Culture from fishing boats and +2 Culture from atolls.
Japan: Zero no longer requires Oil
Science Victory: Spaceship parts require twice the time to build (or twice the gold to buy) to increase the value of the Space Victory tenets.

World Congress
Congress: Gain 2 Delegates from a failed World Leader proposal (was 1).
Congress: Made Diplo Victory more difficult by increasing the delegates needed to win (2 more on Duel, 7 more on Standard, 9 more on Huge). Also exposed delegate equation values to XML for future tweaking and ambitious modders.
City-State Influence: Cleaned up influence calculations when a City-State is killed, to ensure a future liberator will be the undisputed ally and receive the intended reward.
Ally influence is set to 45 (becomes Friends).
Friends influence is set to 15 (becomes Neutral).
Neutral influence is set to 0.
Negative influence remains as it was.
When liberated, the liberator's influence is set to 150 (becomes Ally).

3 New Pantheons
Earth Mother: +1 Faith from Copper, Iron, and Salt.
God-King: +1 Culture, Faith, Gold, Production, and Science from the Palace
Sun God: +1 Food from Bananas, Citrus, and Wheat
Trade Routes: All City-State Trade Routes get +1 Base gold. Gold bonus from having a route connected to a city with a Market or Bank halved (from 2 to 1). Applies to unique versions of these buildings also.
Great Admirals now have a "Change Port" command. If either moving into a port or starting the turn in one, they can consume the rest of their moves to jump to another port city under their control.

Archaeology
Great Works of Writing (like the Rosetta Stone) now available from 30% of the Hidden Antiquity Sites. An alternative use of these is to create a "Cultural Renaissance" (equal to a Great Writer's Political Treatise).
There are now diplomatic bonuses for building Landmarks in both city state and major civ territory.
Air Combat
New stacking limits on air units in cities. Starts at 6; increased to 10 when you add an Airport. Game Concept text updated to match this change.
Player now receives a warning that projected damage can go up if the air unit is intercepted; number of visible enemy anti-air units that haven't fired is also given in combat preview.
Air Combat: Award experience to intercepting planes and firing AA guns
Change rules for razing cities to make it so the Holy City of any religion cannot be razed.

[AI]
Custom AI per Civ
Custom worker code for Brazil: Automated workers will no longer remove jungle unless there's a resource on it (ie: bananas). Workers will remove jungle for resources (like spices and bananas) but otherwise will build Brazilwood Camps.
Custom settlement AI for Brazil: Includes player suggestions of city sites near jungle for Brazil.
Custom settlement AI for Indonesia: Doubled the fertility on lucrative sites that are not on the same continent as previous cities. This should help Indonesia to better use it's UA.
Custom settlement AI for Netherlands: Will now tend to favor marshes and flood plains when choosing a site to settle.
Custom settlement AI for Morocco: They should now consider desert favorable when making settlement choices/suggestions.
Custom settlement AI for Spain: Settling next to Natural Wonders should now be extremely attractive to Spain.
Custom settlement AI for Inca: Inca should now consider hills more favorably; hills bordered by one or more mountains get an additional bonus.
Air Combat AI: Never rebase aircraft to a city being razed.

Deal AI
Deal AI: Never ask for something from the human that we don't consider having any value (such as Open Borders from a distant civ).
Deal AI: make AI aware of the value of Open Borders as players close in toward Culture Victories;
Deal AI: Make it so the AI will never pay more than about 15 gold-per-turn. There were cases before of 40+ gold-per-turn.
Fix a legacy bug that prevented the AI from ever putting together offers for a luxury that a human player now has available for trade.
Deal AI: fix valuation of Open Borders so AI never says "I want to negotiate passage" but doesn't put anything on the table.
Deal AI: Have the AI accept totally even trades with the human (before they always wanted some small bonus, even when swapping embassies ... assuming they weren't putting the embassies on the table themselves).
Deal AI: AI now understands how to put things on YOUR side of the deal table.
Deal AI: Embassies now worth 35 Gold base (so AI will almost always consider them worth 1 gold-per-turn).
Deal AI: Embassy cost scales based on deal duration (so 1 GPT over 45 turns is worth it on slower speeds)
Deal AI: AI properly values Gold in hand over GPT, so over 30 turns it won't get 150 for 5GPT. Instead only 85% of that.
Deal AI: Slight increase (about 7%) in the value the AI gives you in gold/gold-per-turn for things (this helped with getting them to always offer 1 GPT for Embassy).
Deal AI: Don't give such a huge (90%) discount on open borders with friendly players. Reduced to 65%.

Tactical AI
Tactical AI: Reduce overkill percentage from 50% to 25%. Previously, the AI would gather up much more strength than needed before trying to kill an enemy unit, which could bog down AI operations.
Tactical AI: Make sure units moving in formation don't use extra MP to "wander" a tile or two after their primary (formation) move for the turn completes.
Operational AI
Operational AI: On water maps (Archipelago, Islands, etc.) allow land operations to have a few units "spill out" onto water tiles so the operation doesn't get bogged down trying to get to its target. Also don't use the bigger city attack formation (16 units) on such a map (use 12 instead).
Operational AI: Weight barbarian camps within 10 tiles of one of your cities heavily; start up operations to eradicate them quickly.

Military AI
Military AI: Civs with very high FLAVOR_OFFENSE settings (7+) will buy military units with spare gold more frequently. Will boost the number of early attacks we see, especially on high difficulties.
Military AI: when rebasing air units, prioritize carriers within operations over those that aren't assigned to an operation
Homeland AI: Fix bug in ExecuteMovesToSafestPlot() where it would consider leftover moves from another unit, meaning the safest plot was not actually chosen. This essentially makes the AI better at determining safe plots to run to when a unit has to flee from danger.
Policy/City AI: Added a player strategy to focus on religious buildings and wonders if the AI has started the Piety social policy tree.
Diplomacy AI: Increase chance of City-State conquest if that City-State is a neighbor on your way to get to a targeted major power.
Ideology AI: If it's possible to take a Level 3 tenet, make sure the AI always takes the one available that matches their current Grand Strategy choice.
Space Race AI: Don't consider capitals to be "medium cities". This change allows AI to start Apollo Program far earlier in Information Age starts where few cities are "Large" until 30+ turns in.
Great General AI: Fix rare case of AI trying to plant a Citadel on a tile that already had one.

Great Admiral AI
Great Admiral AI: The AI now takes advantage of the Transfer Port move to get Great Admirals out of dangerous cities and into the largest bodies of water
Great Admiral AI: Have the AI send Great Admirals out with more naval operations; have them stack with friendly units like Great Generals do on land.
Great Admiral AI: Improve the operational movement code for admirals to get to their targets.
Changed MINIMUM_SETTLE_FERTILITY to 20000, up from 5000 to keep AI civs from settling worthless plots. Added some logging code to track plot values.
Congress AI: When an Embargo on an AI player is proposed, that player will always use all of its Delegates towards preventing the Embargo.
Archaeology AI: Make it possible that the AI will choose to gain the diplo benefit by turning an antiquity site into a Landmark in city state territory
Science AI: upped the flavor numbers on Library, University, Public School, and Laboratory. Removed 'MILITARY_TRAINING' flavor from Library and University. Added culture flavor to University to support Archaeologist generation.

[GAMEPLAY]
19 new Great Works of Art. This is to address players running out a bit too early in larger games.
Added 3 more City-States (Vilnius, Bogota and Wellington, one of each type).

[SDK]
Beta password for the SDK tool required to access new content.
Added ability to swap player slots while in the staging room.
Stand-alone pitboss server app now included with the SDK.
New SDK launcher that includes the pitboss server (see addendum for quick-start guide).

[MULTIPLAYER]
Dedicated server added via SDK.
A human player's civ icon will now show as unmet in a multiplayer match until the local player has met that civilization. The human player's name will be known even when unmet. Made this consistent between the score list and the turn queue.
Additional refinement of hot-join system.
Players joining multiplayer games now delay the transition to the staging room until they have completely registered with the game.
Making the pitboss network modes selectable from the multiplayer select menu.
Now possible to switch player slots/civs in the staging room. This allows new players to select the ai civ they wish to replace when hot joining or loading a saved game.
Additional stability fixes.

[SCENARIOS]
Civil War Scenario Balance: apply a gentler scaling to city defense strength based on percentage of tech tree researched.

[MODDING]
Sound modding now supported. Added a "Reload Audio System" option to ModBuddy. Example mods will be uploaded to Steam Workshop at launch.

[BUGS]
Fixed an issue where you receive a Free Building in a city that had hard built the same building. Before the hard-built building would be sold off (deleting its effect) but due to a logic area the effects for the same (free) building would not be reapplied. Should fix Aqueducts from the Tradition finisher, Broadcast Towers from CN Tower, etc.
Fixed an issue causing Indonesia to get unique luxuries when acquiring a city on another continent through conquest or trade.
Statue of Libery +1 production now applies to Writer and Musician specialists
Fixed a World Congress AI logic error where the number of Great Person improvements a player owned was counted incorrectly.
Fixed a World Congress AI logic error which had cultural players valuing some resolutions less than they should.
Mongol Scenario: restore custom names for at start Mongol units.
Fixed a bug where gold per turn gained from resolutions would not be displayed correctly. There are no resolutions that give gold per turn, but modders can use it.
The denouncement counter (Declare War pop-up) now properly counts down rather than always reporting 49.
Make Harbor tooltip consistent with other buildings such as Markets and Banks (they all say "additional 1 Gold" instead of 2 gold - this is then multiplied by 2 before the final gold amount is listed for a SEA trade route).
Fixed an issue where the total number of techs a player could steal was being zeroed out prematurely, causing the tech steal to never resolve.
Properly enforce restriction that you can't found a pantheon when a religion has been enhanced and a number of pantheons have been created equal to the maximum number of religions allowed on that size map.
Tutorials - The tutorials now enforce that only the base game rules and UI are used for tutorials.
Additional misc bug fixes.
 

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
Japan: Japan: Samurai can build fishing boats.

Is this the biggest fuck you ever to the complaints of japan players that Samurai become obsolete way too fast?


Make it so the AI will never pay more than about 15 gold-per-turn. There were cases before of 40+ gold-per-turn.

I think it's stupid that in the early game, resources are worth 5gpt and 5gpt is a fuckload of money. In the late game when you're sitting at +300gpt easily without going on an economy focus, 5gpt isn't worth shit. The inflation in this game is in no way reflected by trade deals, it always stays at those pathetic ancient era values.



Changed MINIMUM_SETTLE_FERTILITY to 20000, up from 5000 to keep AI civs from settling worthless plots

Great change, it's really weird to see AI settling those three tiles of tundra on your piece of land you ignored before. Once the map is almost full, you see shit cities being thrown down all the time...