Company Raises It's Minimum Wage to $70,000 and All Hell Breaks Loose

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Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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You don't see how the "inappropriate lifestyles" police going around checking up on people to see if they "deserve" their govt benefits won't be a total fucking train wreck? Really?
If they're breaking the law to supplement their income they'd be ending up in prison. How would that be any different than arresting criminals normally, exactly? Besides getting an easier paper trail since basically no one would dodge their "free money".

Also keep in mind the benefit to it is it lets Social Security sunset as well, since it's effectively Social Security at all ages.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
16
I'd be curious what would happen to minimum wages if you instituted a national stipend for every citizen over 18 and did away with minimum wage completely. Then I guess you'd really see what low paying jobs are worth from both sides.
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
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If they're breaking the law to supplement their income they'd be ending up in prison. How would that be any different than arresting criminals normally, exactly? Besides getting an easier paper trail since basically no one would dodge their "free money".

Also keep in mind the benefit to it is it lets Social Security sunset as well, since it's effectively Social Security at all ages.
How much would this GMI be? Would it be paid just directly in cash or would you provide govt housing/foods etc ?
 

Asshat wormie

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I'd be curious what would happen to minimum wages if you instituted a national stipend for every citizen over 18 and did away with minimum wage completely. Then I guess you'd really see what low paying jobs are worth from both sides.
Sounds great as long as the majority of the tax burden for the stipend is paid by the businesses. Otherwise, why the fuck are we subsidizing their low wage employees.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
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Sounds great as long as the majority of the tax burden for the stipend is paid by the businesses. Otherwise, why the fuck are we subsidizing their low wage employees.
We subsidize a lot of different things for various reasons, this doesn't seem like the worst of it.

Where do you think the numbers would go though, how low would they drop? If someone is earning a livable wage sitting on his ass, is he going to be willing to flip burgers for a couple of bucks an hour?
 

Asshat wormie

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We subsidize a lot of different things for various reasons, this doesn't seem like the worst of it.

Where do you think the numbers would go though, how low would they drop? If someone is earning a livable wage sitting on his ass, is he going to be willing to flip burgers for a couple of bucks an hour?
I imagine the wages would be similar to what waiters/waitresses earn now on the books. And people will do those jobs, most people will do everything they can to make a few extra bucks if the opportunity exists. And of course some will sit on the porch all day sipping colt 45s.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
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You could be right. I'd be surprised if people would work at McDonald's for 2.75 an hour though. This is also assuming this whole scheme doesn't create inflationary pressure.
 

Asshat wormie

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You could be right. I'd be surprised if people would work at McDonald's for 2.75 an hour though.
There are people working multiple jobs in McDonalds right now for barely more than 2.75/h so I dont think things will change. Its difficult to imagine how 22 (2.75*8 hours) extra dollars a day makes a difference without being dirt poor but if you think about it, assuming 200 working days a year, thats $4400 (pre tax) and that makes a larger difference when you are around the poverty line.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
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I would imagine many people would attempt to become entertainers working for tips. And by entertainers I mean like Twitch/Camwhores/actual whores.

It probably wouldn't work out very well.
 

Fifey

Trakanon Raider
2,898
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I imagine the wages would be similar to what waiters/waitresses earn now on the books. And people will do those jobs, most people will do everything they can to make a few extra bucks if the opportunity exists. And of course some will sit at their desk plating p99/TLP servers.
FTFY
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
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I would imagine many people would attempt to become entertainers working for tips. And by entertainers I mean like Twitch/Camwhores/actual whores.

It probably wouldn't work out very well.
I think there would be an instant, HUGE incentive to off the books income. I can't see how that would backfire at all.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
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I think there would be an instant, HUGE incentive to off the books income. I can't see how that would backfire at all.
Well, no, the idea would be to just give the basic living stipend to EVERYONE, without means testing, so that it wouldn't have to be off the books income.

That's the whole problem with our welfare system, it encourages you to make the most off the books income possible, and that creates a shadow economy.
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
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Well, no, the idea would be to just give the basic living stipend to EVERYONE, without means testing, so that it wouldn't have to be off the books income.

That's the whole problem with our welfare system, it encourages you to make the most off the books income possible, and that creates a shadow economy.
Ok, so one more time, how much is this basic living stipend?

300M people in the US, how much we talking about? And this would replace all of social security and public welfare, but do nothing for medicare and medicaid, correct?
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
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Oh man I just read through the last couple pages. The feels are strong in here. Cad why are you bothering? Slow day picking out furniture for your new office?
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
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I'm not saying this is a good idea. Cash transfers are generally pretty bad.

If it were up to me? Make sure every person has at least some kind of apartment/dormitory with working heat and plumbing. People who own or rent their own home would get it as a tax credit, people who don't have a place to live would get a place to live. We've tried this experiment eliminating homelessness in various cities; what it costs in money, it more than saves in ER visits and jails. Always a net gain. This is just plain financial sense once you run the numbers.

Giveeveryonefood benefits via EBT, but less than the current system provides. People who are wealthy enough that they don't want to use their food benefits could have their food benefits automatically transferred to a certified food bank/food distribution NPO. Let faith-based organizations help on this, to keep the conservatives happy. Make sure every area is adequately covered. Keeping the NPOs involved in food distribution at the poverty line or below would help them keep contact with people in those communities so they could provide them with job seeking services, keep an eye on their mental health, drug use, etc. The current welfare system isolates people too much, and pushes them off to the fringes.

Create a temporary worker pool system for temporary state and municipal jobs. There's tons of shit that needs fixed/cleaned up all over this country, and plenty of idle labor. Technology should be able to make this happen. You can clean up neighborhoods AND pay people to do it, think Uber for low-medium skill labor. Conservatives should fucking love this, you get the upsides of public sector workers without having to pay their retarded pensions or pay them to sit idle.

Fix education. I could write 80 fucking pages on this. By the time I've gotten my PHD I'm sure I'll have written 200 pages on this or more. It's such an exhaustive topic that there's no room to even talk about it here. Fix it. Public schools, private schools, charter schools, desegregation, boarding schools to ship kids out of dysfunctional cities, whatever. Education is such a fucking mess, there's room for trying every decent sounding solution on the table for this one. That's without even talking about higher education. My thoughts on that one could fill six textbooks.

I don't know what you do about clothes, transportation, gas, etc. The Uber-for-labor program would help jobless people out here, but only the able bodied ones. Sick people probably still need help here, but they don't really get out much so probably not all that much help. I've literally spent less than 1500 dollars total on shoes and clothes in the 5 years since I lost everything in the flood, and that's with working at a university 4 days a week. Thrift shops ftw; poor people will still look poor so conservatives will still know who to spit on.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
Was away most of the day getting work done on the car, but Mist elaborated pretty well in one of the more sensible approaches to it.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
16
Ok, so one more time, how much is this basic living stipend?

300M people in the US, how much we talking about? And this would replace all of social security and public welfare, but do nothing for medicare and medicaid, correct?
That's correct, but it was more of a thought experiment than a suggestion.
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
25,757
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I'm not saying this is a good idea. Cash transfers are generally pretty bad.

If it were up to me? Make sure every person has at least some kind of apartment/dormitory with working heat and plumbing. People who own or rent their own home would get it as a tax credit, people who don't have a place to live would get a place to live. We've tried this experiment eliminating homelessness in various cities; what it costs in money, it more than saves in ER visits and jails. Always a net gain. This is just plain financial sense once you run the numbers.

Giveeveryonefood benefits via EBT, but less than the current system provides. People who are wealthy enough that they don't want to use their food benefits could have their food benefits automatically transferred to a certified food bank/food distribution NPO. Let faith-based organizations help on this, to keep the conservatives happy. Make sure every area is adequately covered. Keeping the NPOs involved in food distribution at the poverty line or below would help them keep contact with people in those communities so they could provide them with job seeking services, keep an eye on their mental health, drug use, etc. The current welfare system isolates people too much, and pushes them off to the fringes.

Create a temporary worker pool system for temporary state and municipal jobs. There's tons of shit that needs fixed/cleaned up all over this country, and plenty of idle labor. Technology should be able to make this happen. You can clean up neighborhoods AND pay people to do it, think Uber for low-medium skill labor. Conservatives should fucking love this, you get the upsides of public sector workers without having to pay their retarded pensions or pay them to sit idle.

Fix education. I could write 80 fucking pages on this. By the time I've gotten my PHD I'm sure I'll have written 200 pages on this or more. It's such an exhaustive topic that there's no room to even talk about it here. Fix it. Public schools, private schools, charter schools, desegregation, boarding schools to ship kids out of dysfunctional cities, whatever. Education is such a fucking mess, there's room for trying every decent sounding solution on the table for this one. That's without even talking about higher education. My thoughts on that one could fill six textbooks.

I don't know what you do about clothes, transportation, gas, etc. The Uber-for-labor program would help jobless people out here, but only the able bodied ones. Sick people probably still need help here, but they don't really get out much so probably not all that much help. I've literally spent less than 1500 dollars total on shoes and clothes in the 5 years since I lost everything in the flood, and that's with working at a university 4 days a week. Thrift shops ftw; poor people will still look poor so conservatives will still know who to spit on.
I mean, ok, have the CBO run this but I'm thinking it'll cost like 5 trillion dollars a year.

I think I'd rather nuke the health care system from orbit, implement single payer, cut all defense spending by 50%, use the savings from single payer + defense to implement 500 billion a year science education funding and scientific research with our 10 million new scientists each year and triple NASA's budget, and see what that does.

But sure, lets get homeless people apartments. Absolutely.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
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ITT : Mist describes a communist utopia.
It really doesn't matter what you call it. Capitalism's big sales pitch is that it drives efficiency. The endgame of that efficiency is that fewer and fewer workers will be needed to fulfill the needs of more and more people.

Saying 'well, let's punish the unneeded people by not meeting their needs' really only makes capitalism work worse.