Crowfall

Ukerric · May 13, 2015

Srathor_sl said:
I think the patterns and plans for building and keeps can drop in campaigns, but you have basic ones sold in the EK.

I don't think there's any pattern/plan in campaign. The campaign gives you relics (i.e. power boosts) and resources (and possibly locally crafted gear if you can Vault those), but nothing else.

Ukerric · May 13, 2015

Tuco_sl said:
they won't stick to their vision of campaigns being the meat of the game.

The campaigns ARE the meat of the game. The problem with the campaign thing is that you need permanence, and that means something outside of those (i.e. EK).

Lasch · May 13, 2015

Do you need permanence? The most fun I had in wow was rerolling on the brand new servers. I damn near wore out my F5 key on the forums scouting for a new server to pop while at work. I was able to keep in contact / find some of the other locusts on the servers, so I know I wasn't alone.

Vitality · May 13, 2015

Ukerric_sl said:
The campaigns ARE the meat of the game. The problem with the campaign thing is that you need permanence, and that means something outside of those (i.e. EK).

Permanence for me is my characters progression and personal/guild leaderboard standing. I don't give any fucks about a house no one is going to visit that holds trophies that no one gives a shit about.

Srathor · May 13, 2015

If we can get some info about the campaign world keeps it would help. I have the idea that you take a keep area in the dregs and then the EK building system goes into effect. The keep pattern itself is probably fixed in place and unchangeable, but all the side buildings (Forges, workshops, storage yards and such) are buildable depending on patterns.

If you take a keep and can't do anything about the surrounding lands then the EK building system is a waste, but improving and using that system in the campaign worlds makes the EK also a viable part of the game.

Yeah I might be wrong, but it makes sense to use what you are working on as much as possible. Plus it gives a reason for the crafter and builder archetypes to be needed and viable in campaign worlds.

Vandyn · May 13, 2015

Srathor_sl said:
If we can get some info about the campaign world keeps it would help. I have the idea that you take a keep area in the dregs and then the EK building system goes into effect. The keep pattern itself is probably fixed in place and unchangeable, but all the side buildings (Forges, workshops, storage yards and such) are buildable depending on patterns.

If you take a keep and can't do anything about the surrounding lands then the EK building system is a waste, but improving and using that system in the campaign worlds makes the EK also a viable part of the game.

Yeah I might be wrong, but it makes sense to use what you are working on as much as possible. Plus it gives a reason for the crafter and builder archetypes to be needed and viable in campaign worlds.

Everything they have said indicates EK's themselves have zero impact on the campaign worlds.

Draegan_sl · May 13, 2015

Outside of relics and artifacts. Correct.

Tuco · May 13, 2015

Vandyn_sl said:
Everything they have said indicates EK's themselves have zero impact on the campaign worlds.

We shall see!

Jimbolini · May 13, 2015

Vitality_sl said:
Permanence for me is my characters progression and personal/guild leaderboard standing. I don't give any fucks about a house no one is going to visit that holds trophies that no one gives a shit about.

I would argue that a larger ratio of player tends to care about those sort of things. (Totally made up...but I would bet it would be 3-1)

Srathor · May 13, 2015

I went through the faq and it sounds like it was kinda like the way I thought. The tools for the EK are going to be used in the campaign worlds. Probably restricted to the flavor of the world itself and to the available plots you have controlled. It makes sense to me that they are going to use as much as they can in the main game, and since the campaign world will need support structures to keep interesting over a 1-6 month campaign they are going to have to have things to fight over. Like a built up mine / smelter / forge / homestead will be much more valuable to enemies than just the mine alone. It would be a shame to lose that low hanging fruit wouldn't it...

Vitality · May 13, 2015

Jimbolini_sl said:
I would argue that a larger ratio of player tends to care about those sort of things. (Totally made up...but I would bet it would be 3-1)

I'd bet that whatever ratio you come up with here directly correlates to the ratio of Shit:Good games that come out in this genre.

Draegan_sl · May 14, 2015

jtodd:

Guys, sorry that I haven't gotten a chance to get back to this thread until now.

No, you can't buy VIP tickets for coins.

Yes, you can use coins to pay for parcels and buildings and pay your maintenance on those buildings. Allowing this does set a "floor value" for these coins. There is, however, is no "ceiling" for the value of these coins. You can't buy coins directly from us, so the value of these coins will still be determined by negotiation between buyers and sellers, somewhere at or above that floor value.

You also can't freely exchange between parcels and coins and VIP tickets, which means you can't arbitrage. You COULD be a property broker (trying to "play the market" between coins, buildings and parcels) but I'm not convinced that is a bad thing. It actually sounds pretty fun.

Also: none of the above things were changed or affected by our decision to include Coins in the design.

In the previous iteration of the design, you had to spend a set amount of wood/stone/ore to purchase parcels and buildings. That meant that wood/ore/stone were effectively units of currency, and these currencies had a "floor" value. You could also trade these for VIP tickets, so that loop already existed, too.

Coins just gives you an easier way to facilitate these exchanges. In addition to the benefits to the players (easier transport, providing a common language for "value" and, most notably, being able to set a price for an item on a vendor so that the NPC vendor can sell the item to someone else while you are offline) it also gave us a common currency to collect maintenance/taxes on buildings. Which, again, is nothing new (otherwise "tax free parcels" wouldn't be particularly valuable) it's just making it easier on the player.

If we hadn't gone this route, the alternative was to inclue a "value" attribute on each item, so that you could know how many chickens to place in your building to pay maintenance on it. Effectively, this would mean a "gold value" on each item. If we had gone that route, we still would have had the floor (because we already did), we would have still have had the loop (because we already did), players would use the same value calculations when making transactions (because of course you would), only it would be harder to make transactions (because it's hard to give someone back 10 gold in change when they paid you with a chicken.)

This isn't really that big of a change. Coins are still inventory items, they are just a more stackable version of ore. You still need materials to upgrade your buildings. You still need materials to craft goods. And you can still trade rare items and materials for whatever you like; you don't HAVE to sell them to anyone for coins if you don't want to.

Todd
ACE

Vitality · May 14, 2015

Hopefully that also means similar things in campaigns require coins to build too. Considering they're a consolidation of all three resources.

Atleast Building upgrades in campaigns, hiring guards etc.

Was really looking for Campaign to Coin relation from that jtodd post.

Ukerric · May 15, 2015

Jimbolini_sl said:
I would argue that a larger ratio of player tends to care about those sort of things. (Totally made up...but I would bet it would be 3-1)

I can point to WoW's garrison. A lot of people wanted a lot from those. The result were disappointing, because ultimately, they were too self-contained, devoured your game time for daily chores, and they did not reflect the results of your game play (the monuments pedestal are horribly weaksauce).

The original designs were heard about prior to beta had the potential for more. There's still some left, like having recycling center come out of a specific quest (doesn't matter: upgrade to level 3 garrison and the blueprint is sold there) is one. The handful of followers that came out of achievements were another (if you have Aknor wandering in your garrison, you're a badass). But the garrison ended up too essential for gameplay, and thus, couldn't be too flexible. Everyone needed to be able to have a fully functional one.

But you can see from the reaction of the players that lots of players like the idea of their own property to manage. Heck, even the totally virtual, no effect, castle de'Arnise you could "own" in Baldur's gate was considered awesome.

Vitality · May 15, 2015

Ukerric_sl said:
I can point to WoW's garrison. A lot of people wanted a lot from those. The result were disappointing, because ultimately, they were too self-contained, devoured your game time for daily chores, and they did not reflect the results of your game play (the monuments pedestal are horribly weaksauce).

The original designs were heard about prior to beta had the potential for more. There's still some left, like having recycling center come out of a specific quest (doesn't matter: upgrade to level 3 garrison and the blueprint is sold there) is one. The handful of followers that came out of achievements were another (if you have Aknor wandering in your garrison, you're a badass). But the garrison ended up too essential for gameplay, and thus, couldn't be too flexible. Everyone needed to be able to have a fully functional one.

But you can see from the reaction of the players that lots of players like the idea of their own property to manage. Heck, even the totally virtual, no effect, castle de'Arnise you could "own" in Baldur's gate was considered awesome.

Well said. The major difference here is that ACE's version of the Garrison doesn't provide any game impacting features like WoW gave players.

What would happen to WoW's garrison if you cut out all the dailies and resource generating buildings and character progressing quests/missions, basically cutting out all the quality of life features that Blizzards Garrison provides?

No one would use it? right?

Tuco · May 15, 2015

Vitality_sl said:
Well said. The major difference here is that ACE's version of the Garrison doesn't provide any game impacting features like WoW gave players.

What would happen to WoW's garrison if you cut out all the dailies and resource generating buildings and character progressing quests/missions, basically cutting out all the quality of life features that Blizzards Garrison provides?

No one would use it? right?

Yep. It's like the castles in Conan or ArcheAge. We had one of the best castles in the world but they only served as a backdrop for guild events now and then.

Where as our city in Shadowbane was a hub of commerce, communication etc.

Draegan_sl · May 15, 2015

I guess all the housing features in EQ2 or Rift weren't used by anyone. Or people playing house in Archeage.

Vitality · May 15, 2015

Draegan_sl said:
I guess all the housing features in EQ2 or Rift weren't used by anyone. Or people playing house in Archeage.

EQ2 Housing let you store items that were sellable on the open market auction house that were usable in the main game.

EQ2 Guild houses had crafting vendors and benches for items that directly impacted the game. Not to mention porters and skill trainers and things that directly controlled quality of life for the players.

Archeage housing had real tactical value in PVP and for Trade routes and for storage.

Didn't play rift far enough to get into housing - most people quit before then.

*The biggest point here is that all of these had a wide spread impact on the general game as a whole.

Not some disconnected import rule reliant maybe I can use this maybe I can't situation.

Draegan_sl · May 15, 2015

I'm also pretty sure people just did housing for housing sake because they liked it. I mean there was some guy on these boards who spent all his time making furniture in the game and that was all he did.

I think you're being purposefully butthurt over a single aspect of this game.

edit:
Like it's been said a million times, you either need to be excited about this game because of the design of the Campaign cycle or not pay attention to the game at all.

Vitality · May 15, 2015

Draegan_sl said:
I think you're being purposefully butthurt over a single aspect of this game.

edit:
Like it's been said a million times, you either need to be excited about this game because of the design of the Campaign cycle or not pay attention to the game at all.

You're probably right, I'll be back when they actually start talking about Campaigns. Until then you'll have to excuse me for having a negative opinion on a feature valued at 50% of the kickstarter funds that's completely worthless.

Crowfall

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