Crowfall

Muligan

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I would say a smart bet is November 2017.

They are pretty damn good with communication and keeping people in the loop. (Well, compared to SOE was )

Definitely agree with this but that's not saying much as the entire MMO genre is filled with people who can't communicate. However, regardless of how the game turns out, I really feel these guys have done an excellent job generating hype, donations, and communicating. With that said... i'm not all that thrilled with the game and leaning on disappointed at this time. If I could get my money back, I would, and that's not to say this game can't turn out to be a good game. I'm just saying for now, it's doesn't look all that ground breaking and I might as well keep playing WoW or whatever rotation of MMO's I float around on for a fix.
 
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uniqueuser

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Seems like every "indie" studio these days is lauded for how great they are at communication in direct proportion to how unimpressive their product is.
 
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Utnayan

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Seems like every "indie" studio these days is lauded for how great they are at communication in direct proportion to how unimpressive their product is.

Except this "Indie" studio is being ran by a guy that tanked SWG, completely fucked SWTOR with one of the worst engine design decisions ever in history, and has a history of blowing through more cash than Obama. Don't think fpr a seconds this is an indie studio in the typical sense of some folks passionate about games and want to release something fun. The guy who steers the boat here is a crook.
 
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wilkxus

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Except this "Indie" studio is being ran by a guy that tanked SWG, completely fucked SWTOR with one of the worst engine design decisions ever in history, and has a history of blowing through more cash than Obama. Don't think fpr a seconds this is an indie studio in the typical sense of some folks passionate about games and want to release something fun. The guy who steers the boat here is a crook.
Who is the fall guy for SWG? From what I read SOEs Star Wars Galaxies was Raph Ks crapshow, what did this guy have to do with it?

(edit) Sorry was out of touch on this, did not realize. How long has Raph Koster on their team? wtf, who let him out of his academic theory bubble and anywhere close to actually making a real game again ?

(edit) Perhaps I am being a little harsh: if Brad is learning and reforming perhaps Raphy should get a chance too. Never played SWG but dug into it after it tanked so horribly and reading Raphs own posmortem was pretty damning.

But perhaps there is hope?..... in a fantasy land far far away....? :)
 
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Utnayan

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Who is the fall guy for SWG? From what I read SOEs Star Wars Galaxies was Raph Ks crapshow, what did this guy have to do with it?

Actually on the back end with the crafting system after everything actually functioned, some of Koster's ideas weren't that bad. Translated poorly into a Star Wars game. But Gordon and Rich Vogel were both on the NGE team that forced down even more of the shitty changes. Most of them designed by Walton and passed up through Vogel. Then, from what I was told, it was Walton who was in bed with Hero Engine and decided it would be a good idea to launch a two hundred million dollar project based on a fucking beta engine with limited engineering support because he was sold on the "Collabrate anywhere" idea of the package. Which barely fucking worked anyway. The end result was a game that 60+ of the team just hope would compile after every patch and would literally stand in amazement that it functioned after.

Sorry was out of touch on this, did not realize. How long has Raph Koster on their team? wtf, who let him out of his academic theory bubble and anywhere close to actually making a real game again ?

It's the good ol' boys SOE club that tanked the entire fucking genre mopving from game to game to game and wasting everyone's time and more importantly, cash - especially now that it is crowdfunded as I highly doubt any publisher with common sense would touch anything Walton is a part of.

But perhaps there is hope?..... in a fantasy land far far away....? :)

No. There isn't any hope, ever. There wasn't any hope with SWTOR. (Although I still liked the single player story lines - the only time the game became bearable was with quality of life and travel speed increases/12X class XP to view the stories only and that was after Walton and Vogel were out. There wasn't any hope at the other 5 million companies these people have been at between SOE-Austin and now. You are better off not buying into their babble because as you can see here from a few folks that played the game, it is absolute garbage. Which isn't unexpected.

You have to remember something. These same few have been protecting and scapegoating each other's asses since Ultima Online was first announced. They all just need to go away.
 
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uniqueuser

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Don't forget Walton's brainchild Trammel, the lobotomization of UO.
the plan that was being pushed on us was to shut down UO when UO2 launched (even though it was a completely different game). In fact, my second week at Origin I was asked for a shutdown plan for the game. (My answer: if you are serious I'm quitting today, because some of the players are going to kill (IRL) the people responsible for such a decision. They really didn't understand the emotional attachment UO players had for the game). This continued to be something talked about though continuously, but less after we grew the game. Remember that EA at that time was a packaged game company and they culturally only understood launching new products, not running live ones. Our Live team needed to keep UO vibrant and growing to offset those forces, so we were continuously scrambling for how to do that. I'm proud that UO survives to this day based partially on the momentum the team (and our loyal customers) created.
Would've been more humane for EA to euthanize it rather than allow the game to grow into the retarded abomination he's proud of today.
 
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Utnayan

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Just to set the record straight on my opinion. It isn't that Crowfall doesn't have some good ideas for the crowd it is trying to reach. It is that these guys (I do not know them personally, so I am only speaking from a pen to paper professional point of view of what has been launched and gone live/on going) cannot manage game development or correctly manage a team because the bloat of corporate politics good ol boy syndrome plays, even into, a team of 30. For an organization, "Indie" but not really, this retarded mindset remains strong. Only a handful (Who are usually piss poor developers but are buddies/long standing relations in the industry) are the ones actively making game design decisions which are obviously fucking horrible, while the good ideas of the new and up and comers are flailed down to the wind, when they should be embraced. It isn't a team effort. It's a few drive down egotistical non game minded industry marginalized idiots that continue to think they know the right way to go about not only managing a team, but designing a game. And they fail horribly every single fucking iteration because even though they have seen failure, they never know why they continue to fail. They can learn all the lessons they want from game design perspectives, but they aren't learning shit on stashing that ego and letting new developers come up with ingenious ways to advance a design/genre.

So I always loved this when I read it the first time from GW:

One of the benefits of experience is the mistakes you've made along the way, and the pattern matching to avoid old mistakes. Of course this means that you get to make new and even more spectacular (but different) mistakes in the present!

The mistakes they aren't learning from are mistakes in their process development and team relations/mentoring. And THAT is why this will be just another Gordon Walton disaster. If he wants some real advice? Start learning from the PINNACLE of mistakes. His fucking ego. Know that many others down the line as associates have better game design and implementation/road map ideas than a 30 year veteran stuck in the past not knowing the cheese moved over 20 years ago and his shoes aren't even hanging on the hook anymore to give it a shot. Delegate, give them credit, and make it a collective team effort where all ideas from the entire team are heard and tried.

But you can't teach an old dog new tricks and this shit is lost on folks like Trammel, Koster, Vogel, Walton, Sage, McQuaid, etc. (Well, McQuaid MIGHT be coming around.... no one knows)

As a result? The MMORPG genre is pretty much dead as it stands and the "Bitching has stopped".
 

Vinjin

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(Well, McQuaid MIGHT be coming around.... no one knows)

I'm surprised to see you say this given a) your stance that the industry needs new blood and b) their one game being an EQ re-skin.

Can you elaborate on why McQuaid out of that list? Is there something about Pantheon, or perhaps something about VR's team/operations that has you optimistic (even if remote)?
 

Utnayan

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I'm surprised to see you say this given a) your stance that the industry needs new blood and b) their one game being an EQ re-skin.

Can you elaborate on why McQuaid out of that list? Is there something about Pantheon, or perhaps something about VR's team/operations that has you optimistic (even if remote)?

Well, like I said he may be coming around but no one knows. I have not been following. Out of all of the relics, he has had the biggest spanking (self induced) so honestly if that doesn't change at least one, the entire genre is fucked forever.
 
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zero_name

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I fucking hate when Utnayan comes in a thread and makes me start thinking about things realistically. I'm bummed I backed this thing.
 
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Barab

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Ah brother keep your chin up. Shit I gave Artcraft money more as a thank you for the great pvp moments in Shadowbane. Beyond the sb.exe, dupes, and hacks Shadowbane's guild vs guild pvp nation building and forum drama was an epic unique experience that forged kinships and legends that still last today. If Crowfall provides half of this it will be worth whatever dimes are thrown their way.
 

Muligan

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I fucking hate when Utnayan comes in a thread and makes me start thinking about things realistically. I'm bummed I backed this thing.

I have been for some time. It's not that i'm completely doom and gloom about the game. I'm just not sure this will be the game for me. I'm hoping I can somehow get my money back or money's worth when this comes out but i'm not very thrilled about CF at all.
 

Muligan

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For some reason I feel like J Todd is a pretty decent guy... maybe like a Hartsman type that cares about the game but is completely stifled by stuffy people in the industry such as Gordon. However, my perception is pretty bitter. I put Gordon in the same group with Mark Jacobs, Smed, and Ponytail in their abilities to trash a game. I still have a little hope for this game but as long as Gordon is involved, I'm not sure anything fun or creative will ever take root. I can just imaging J Todd really want to think outside of the box but Gordon talking down to him and giving him something to play with in his corner. Thinking it's something like this....

13740899_1650041008646422_1446557806_n.jpg
 
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forge

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I posted this over on SA some time ago. But I'm pretty sure it still applies, even more so now.

8kFidIq.jpg
 
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Utnayan

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No one cares. Gordon sucks ass. We all know that. Hope this turd turns out to be fun, but anyone who has played it, wants a refund. Kudos to the developers, fighting a collosal prick who holds back their ideas.

Game over.
 

Utnayan

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No one cares. Gordon sucks ass. We all know that. Hope this turd turns out to be fun, but anyone who has played it, wants a refund. Kudos to the developers, fighting a collosal prick who holds back their ideas.

Game over.

And yes, you have been shilling this garbage for a long time. But you are a nice guy here. So.. for what it's worth.