Doctor Who

That's the point. You can take it so many different ways. I prefer to think he had a real brother, maybe sisters, etc... Other folks who like the Lungbarrow stories will say he had a large family. Others will say it's the Master and he didn't want to admit. And your take that he was like a brother. All equally valid until someone on the telly says otherwise And even then....who knows?



Asmadai:

I kinda agree. I just assumed it was the 8th that ended it and he regenerated into 9 as a result. Keep in mind, when we are introduced to the 9th in "Rose" hes brand new, even commenting on his own reflection. But he is right in the middle of blowing up a building and trying to genocide one of the oldest races in the Universe. Then he meets Rose and casually tells her that her friend is dead as if it's no big deal. In Dalek he is ready to murder the last remaining Dalek in cold blood. 9 was definitely a continuation of something bad, but Rose fixes him. When the Human 10th genocides the Daleks the 10th Doctor ditches him and has nothing but angry words for him and asks Rose to fix him the way she did for the 9th.Makes me think that's why Rose is in the 50th. They'll finally get their chance to fix the Time War so the Daleks and Time Lords return properly and at a stalemate. And this new Doctor will get to remake his decisions and be welcomed into the Pantheon.

But the 8th was such a pussy. I liked him, and we only knew him for about 64 minutes, but he was such a wimpy douche. And he indicates he's running away from the war. All these holes add up to a missing Doctor. I get why you don't like it. I'm with you...I'd prefer an entire season with McGann playing the evil Time War Doctor. But logistically, I can totally understand why they went this route. It'd also be too much of a metastory to trash the 8th Doctor that way, as the outcast Doctor who ended the Time War. There was 10 years or so of arguing whether or not McGann and the 8th even counted, and Ecclestone never calls his Doctor the 9th. Just not something they want to dig up. This wraps up everything in a nice package especially if what Gwen heard is correct.

I think he's the real 9th. If it were just 8th Doctor grown old, then that wouldn't change much. Moffat said this episode changes everything.

isnt it possible that John Hurt is the real first doctor? i saw a doctor who documenetary a while back and it said that the first doctor started off as a war monger and as he regenerated over and over become more humanitarian. also i thought they mentioned that the doctor becomes younger looking with each regeneration. which is why doctor#1 is an elderly gentleman and matt smith was in his 20s. i mean they spent a buck or 2 on that quick shot of gallifrey, wouldnt it be more likely that when they talk about john hurt later on they will reuse more scenes from gallifrey and possibly mention how john hurt regenned into the first doctor we know?

Any argument about whether there are regenerations of the Doctor that the Doctor doesn't refer to have to include Peter Cushing! Including him of course also gives you the great Roy Castle being added to the list of companions.

8th Doctor movie located, will watch again tonight.

Edit: Oh dear lord, 20 minutes in and this is the pitsAwful music in the opening sequence, masters remains as a translucent snake. I did like the open plan control room though! I mentioned to my lad I was watching it and he asked to see it as well so will try again at the weekend.

One thing I wonder if they will address: Clara recalls some of her thousandish other lives. However, at least one of those lives was as a Time Lord. Wouldn't that technically mean she may have some of those memories?

Human transported there by another timelord?

Doubtful, based on the clothing. I also think The Doctor was unique in his affection for humans. I doubt the Time Lords would let
an unguarded human walk around a bunch of Tardis ships.

Timeywimey.

This is Clara's first life. Her other lives were short lived incarnations where she wasn't really sure who she was just that she needed to save the Doctor. Explains why in Victorian London she had two jobs and no real reason why, nor did she know where she came from having joked with the kids she was born in Big Ben.

And Chuk, not sure which documentary that was but that's all new info to meThe Doctor's age varies greatly, he hasn't gotten younger with each incarnation. The 7th Doctor was much older than 4,5,6

@jait
I dunno which one it was, ive seen lots of them. Maybe it was bbca and perhaps they were referring to only the reboot, but they mentioned how each new doctor becomes younger and more pacifistic. So when they rebooted the series they had eccelstone as a warmonger again

I'm not sure if Clara actually learned the Doctor's name. I just thought she read about the Time War.

She said there was another name in the book and that it was his. She didn't really seem all that surprised by it, like it was just another name. Might be a red herring.

I also wonder about the cracked TARDIS. When the Doctor arrives he cracks the window. Pan up to the monument and it has the exact same crack. Could be timey wimey, but seemed to me that he always came to Trenzalore early, and always survived until his death there. Just something about that cracked window bugs me.

She knew it prior to that 'reset' aboard the Tardis, probably remembered it when all those memories before that 'reset' came flooding back to her, and probably heard it a third time when River said it to open up the tomb. Only Clara and the Doctor could hear her; fun re-watching it knowing the whole time the Doctor could see/hear River - the moment where River admits to being the one to say his name, what I originally thought of as a confused, curious look on the Doctor's face, came across more as a pained, downcast look at hearing his now dead wife say his name once more, the second time around.

My 2cents is that the really interesting thing imo is that we never ever saw the Doctor tell River his real name. He didn't say it at their wedding. And after Clara died but before the Doctor saved her, River basically said she's not dead yet...and spoilers. So I think this will continue beyond the 50th. I imagine the Doctor will still fight at Trenzalore when Matt Smith decides to hang it up, but this time the Time Lords or whatever will save him allowing him to regenerate into his 13th Incarnation.


PS Just to throw this out there.... How was the Great Intelligence defeated? It could be that he rewrote the Doctor to add himself as one of his incarnations. Okay, maybe not. But still I want to know how he was defeated. I guess Clara always countered him and when she was done, she ended up at the bottom ala John Sheridan.

River knows the Doctor's name, but he hasn't told her yet. Remember they are living their timelines backwards.

the river thats in this episode is already the "saved" in the library river song. she is dead. she will not be meeting up with the doctor again unless he figures out a way to come back for her and then tells her his name.

The River that died at the library was the oldest form of River Song. That is her after a full life of her running into the Doctor. She even whispers the Doctor's name to him in the library to prove the he could trust her.

So, I'm sticking to my guns. I say Hurt = Valeyard. They said his effing NAME! It gives me hope to know it's not forgotten. Moffet almost had me doing a dance, but I'm not ready to celebrate yet. Also, Chuk's idea interests me. We do know that the first Doctor is not his first regeneration, could Hurt be the Doctor pre-any-regenerations? I like the sound of that. But no, VALEYARD!

Jait_sl said:

I also wonder about the cracked TARDIS. When the Doctor arrives he cracks the window. Pan up to the monument and it has the exact same crack. Could be timey wimey, but seemed to me that he always came to Trenzalore early, and always survived until his death there. Just something about that cracked window bugs me.

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I noticed the same thing. Bugs me too, particularly given Moffet's penchant for cracks = foreshadowing (I'm personally thinking of that one shot of the monitor in the TARDIS cracking and the voice whispering "silence will fall", not to mention the whole season of TARDISplosion cracks in walls). It could also be an indicator of time-lines, in a way. Say, if that crack is ever repaired, then Trenzalor doesn't play out as we saw it. Maybe.

Harshaw_sl said:

River knows the Doctor's name, but he hasn't told her yet. Remember they are living their timelines backwards.

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People always get this the wrong way around. WE see their relationship in a forward-linear direction from the Doctor's perspective, as viewers of the show. River is the one going backwards to us. Except for this holo/projection/ghost thing we saw. That one is from the end of her life, and he is at a point where all River stuff should have already happened (with the last moment being her meeting him for the first time/him saying goodbye). At some point, he may have told her his name. It would have been off screen, though. And part of me thinks it didn't happen. See, the ONE time he was supposed to have said it (and the time River said she heard it) was the marriage. But we know that he didn't say it, he said "look in my eye". So I think she doesn't know it, and has been lying all the time. Interesting thing, that prophecy we got from Blue-head. It said quite specifically that "when no living creature can speak falsely", but it didn't mention anything about lying ghost wimminz. I submit she used some alternate method to open it, like, from the inside. Maybe even went to the Doctor after this bit and told him to land in there, flip a switch, and bolt. Anyhoo, that's just the twisted crap I come up with.