DOTA 2

I play on US West from Chicago and deal with the shit ping just so I get rangrangs instead of peruvians. Rangs are at least good, still shitheads, but good shitheads.

It's not even about catching monkey king because even if you know exactly where is there's very little you can do about him. They'd have to reduce the range on his ambush aoe slow for it to have a reasonable counter.
The ambush factor is so good
His Q is basically an AOE beastmaster ult
His ult is rikis ult on steroids with much larger range.

It's not just about being new, all his abilities are overpowered.

His passive is a league of legends passive, only they didn't learn the important lesson league did years ago which is to make the stacks fall off targets at a reasonable rate. Laning vs him is just fucking miserable right now, even as a range, because the stacks last for something insane like 20 seconds. All he has to do is tag you once or twice and you're zoned for days because if that thing turns on you're just fucked.

That's not even getting in to his Q being a massive ranged 200% crit on a character that is running around with a minimum like 350 right click damage due to his passive.

If I had 3 hits on you and you were at 3/4s health or lower, I'd try and dive you. I need more practice with him to know if it works well, but in laning early stages. Just jump to the tree, jump down hit you once and Q. If I do it right I stun you and your partner and you prolly explode. If needed i jump back into the trees cause the stun lets me move away and break LOS. Or, I use the next 3 boosted hits to finish you.

Have they made it so towers can see him in the trees yet, or is that still broken as fuck?

Also remember, most if not all new heroes tend to becrazy op at the start and then get nerfed back into balance.

Yea, this is pretty much every hero....it will be fine ;p

Ridas said:

Also remember, most if not all new heroes tend to becrazy op at the start and then get nerfed back into balance.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but Earth Spirit was at least kinda hard to play properly, Underlord was good, but didn't have the killing potential, Monkey King owns teams in the hands of people who play him for the first time. I have yet to see him lose a game, if I see him on my team, I can bet all my points since we know we have ez win, if he's on the other side, good luck. The only respite is ranked, where he can be banned if RNG aligns, otherwise you are fucked. This time, Icefrog needs to balance sooner than later, since he distorts the whole game so much.

Single draft or all random is awesome for people that don't want to play with monkey king. I switch to single draft and all random when I get into a rut. Forces me to play different heros and roles.

kegkilla said:

They just put tens of thousands of hours into making the game more accessible for newcomers yet it seems to me that IP blocking certain geographic regions from English servers would do more to improve the playing experience for new players than anything in their 7.00 patch every possibly could. If I was a LoL player trying out DOTA for the first time and I joined a game and was subjected to shit ton of non-intuitive game concepts, an overwhelming learning curve AND being trolled by human trash who have no desire to play a team game, I would uninstall immediately and never look back. I can't imagine what is stopping Valve from doing something about that shit. The only salvation is once you get to 4k the foreigners pretty much disappear.

Click to expand...

Money hats are the only thing that make sense as to why they don't. Because yea, unless they have sales data that says peruvians are funneling X millions of dollars per month in to Valve there's literally no explanation as to why they don't IP restrict regions.

Even if uswest dodges most of south america due to ping issues it's still easily like 30% chinese players for some fucking reason.

Zaphid said:

Yeah, but Earth Spirit was at least kinda hard to play properly, Underlord was good, but didn't have the killing potential, Monkey King owns teams in the hands of people who play him for the first time. I have yet to see him lose a game, if I see him on my team, I can bet all my points since we know we have ez win, if he's on the other side, good luck. The only respite is ranked, where he can be banned if RNG aligns, otherwise you are fucked. This time, Icefrog needs to balance sooner than later, since he distorts the whole game so much.

Click to expand...

I was referring to heroes that are completely new to the game, which happened mostly in tft dota. Rubick, storm, ember, Oracle were pubstompers when they were new and got balanced to what they are now. I think earth spirit was the only new one introduced in dota 2 and he was imbalanced as fuck as is monkey now. The idea is to build hype and get people to play it I assume.

Pyros said:

I've seen him lose a lot, in fact he's very binary I think, people who understand his strengths do well, but people who don't seem to absolutely suck at him. He's squishy and has no escape, so if you're not dominating/manfighting, you're gonna get rolled over. Also if you spend all your early games perched in trees like a retard instead of getting items. And while his potential is still there, he loses a lot if he's not keeping up/ahead in levels since his damage will become less relevant then, especially if people itemize for armor/armor auras.

Definitely needs nerfs though, no heroes should get 200free damage at lvl 7. TA gets 80, Sven gets like 100ish maybe on his ultimate at that point, 200 is ridiculous, especially with a skill that will automatically crit on demand in an aoe. The requirements to activate the passive are a bit annoying, but not that crazy. You need 7hits on Ursa with maxed swipes to get the same amount, and honestly it's easier to hit 4 on monkey king than 7 on Ursa by a large margin, plus once activated you can change target while Ursa has to restack swipes.

Click to expand...

It's not only about the 200, the new map is very open to small skirmishes where he shines, so he gets items that allow him to 1v1 anybody. Literally, his passive makes him better duelist than LC. On top of that, he has sustain, great mobility, fissure that is better than shaker's, aoe ultimate that wipes the whole teams and scales ridiculously well with items - his staff can hit for 1k+ in the late game. So, yeah, he has all the skills - mobility, aoe, sustain, CC and crazy damage.

Ridas On the other hand, the game is much better understood now than ever before. I understand that new heroes are better overpowered than underpowered, but when it makes the game less fun as a result, you probably need to tune him down a bit. Icefrog's famed balance testers could probably see this coming, when every single pro is like "Yep, guy's broken".

I still say, all his damage stuff, while bullshit can be tuned or tweaked with numbers. Make his attack stacks persist shorter. Scale his Q better etc. I think the one that is going to be the long term problem is the vision and mobility his tree top bullshit provides. AM gets a blink sure, but AM is jumping blind and has no vision. Monkey gets the blink, and he gets vision. Monkey can sit in a tree and not be seen unless you have flying vision, technically making him more invis than Riki. He'll be able to scout with near impunity if he's not near one of the 4 elevated ward spots.

It seems most pro games now come down to who has vision and better initiate in most team fights and Monkey will grant that in spades. The biggest problem with that is atm, you can't counter it with any items I now of. You have to rely solely on counter picks that provide flying vision or track. Most other abilities in the game can be mitigated at least with items, but how do you find Monkey when he's in a tree not near an elevated ward spot without complete deforestation? Riki, Bounty or any other invis hero you can counter with good sentries and dust. Magic burst with bkbs and linkens pipes etc. How do you get early warning that MK is scouting you?

I mean they can tweak that as well, but I see that being the big long term problem with him even after the inital 'Oh he's OP lets nerf him' stuff is finished.

Yeah, Monkey has had very limited success in my games, and I think its almost completely because people don't respect his right click stacks much in the same way people tend to not respect Ursa as you descend down in MMR, and his tree skill must be thought of as invis as far as positioning and placement even though he is not invis. Treat a missing Monkey King like you treat a missing Riki, but without the sentry wards. You need to have help, or be well within a tower's safety range to suck him in for a dive or find your safety. Monkey King cannot come out of the trees with an active passive unless your team has already fucked up fighting him to begin with. He cannot just leap down and 2 shot you.

In many ways these two facts make him a low skill pub nightmare to counter, but I would argue that he's not near as OP as people think. Games he wins and loses remind me of Ursa games. Ursa games also become very binary. Either he is kited and controlled, or he stomps pretty hard due to lack of that same control. No one complains they can't manfight Ursa at level 4. People said he can zone you for 20 seconds with the stack time, this is true, but not letting him hit 4 stacks is way more important to avoid than anything else.

He is annoying because you must play against him when he's in the game vs play how you might necessarily want. This is no different than Riki, BH, Necrophos, Anti-mage, Alchemist, Ursa etc etc etc. These heroes demand item counters and skill counters. Either counter pick or have a plan. I'm sure his numbers will get tweaked certainly. But other heroes have stack/buff mechanics as well, and they are a difficult aspect to quantify. He hits too hard, much like Earth spirit CC'd way too hard initially. Even if he's easier to play than ES, the cycle in the same. The data they are getting about HOW broken his numbers are right now is invaluable to tweaking him correctly. I highly doubt they will change the core of his mechanics, merely values. I would be extremely surprised if his 4 stack mechanic got removed, they may tame the boosts, but not the way it works.

Centaur ruined games for longer than MK will ruin games. When Stampede was a 1.5 second stun+dmg vs what it is now.

There are no creep camps in the trees, it is a massive opportunity cost for the monkey to sit and jump around not farming. If you pretend he is like riki in these situations, you play in the same way. If he can solo you, you must be near an ally/tower/help. If you get a scout on him, then you jump him. If he's not anywhere that you have ward vision or farming lanes, then he's either in the trees or shitty jungling. I'm guessing he'll be in the trees.

Check out his winrate on dota buff, his is a shitty impersonation of a purely broken hero. He doesn't even reach 50% winrate in normal/high/vh brackets.

Hero Meta Statistics - Pick and Win Rates, This Month, Skill Bracket, Any Faction, All Lanes, Any Region, Any Skill, All Rating Brackets