DOTA 2

lul, the adventures of BrotherWu. You should start strimming Twitch bruh.

Only issue I have with monkey kings tree hopping is even if you have a team comp/items (lol quelling blade is ass) to cut trees and try and punish/catch him it doesn't really do anything cause he can just hop to a new tree.

I feel like if you cut down the tree he's hiding it he should eat some kind of damage+stun when he lands so you get a proper chance to punish him for sniffing out his ambush, or just actually catching him during a chase.

Yeah. He eats a 4 second stun and if you can get him out of his tree and get on him he's screwed. But, getting the right tree is tougher than it looks. Last game I had an Ember and a Spirit Break that jumped me. I get my stun off, phase boots gets me just enough range to get 3 seconds of not being hit and I am in a tree. They were cutting them down with quelling and his fire spirits but if you don't get the right one at the start its pretty tough to find me.

Lots of times the stun and phase boots gives me just enough time to escape. Now, shit that slows or puts dots on me seems to fuck me pretty hard. I think someone like Viper would ruin MK's day. Also people with range and fast attacks like sniper, plus he can scout with shrapnel. But, for as squishy as he is if you are not careful, his escape works better than you'd think. Especially since creeps and towers don't trigger its cooldown anymore.

And you don't just have a 'farm or sit in trees' binary choice like people seem to think. Your team pushing towers? Jump to a tree just past the tower to scout for them while they take it. Gives you early warning if they are trying to set up a defense. They show up and start to go in? A good Q from the trees can really turn that attempted defense into a team wipe cause it lets your team take advantage and get a good initiate follow up. You pushing lanes? Kill the wave, jump ahead to a tree. No ambush waiting? Come back out of the tree and kill the next wave. Into the tree again.

Lastly, I don't think his W/L rate atm is telling of anything. Lots of people playing him and playing him poorly. He does have weaknesses. He's not tanky. Least not for awhile. If you can put some sort of damage or lockdown on him to keep him from getting away he's going to eat shit and hard. Try and go in and man mode solo against the other team? Yeah. You're screwed. He's not that OP and people seem to want to play him like he is. But, if you have a good player he seems his kit can do a lot more than other heroes.

Does he really? I swear I've never seen it happen to him, or to me in the one game I've played of him.

The honest to god trick is to never let him get 4 stacks, engage, disengage, etc. Its exactly like Ursa. Instead of complaining that X Y or Z hero can't fight an empowered monkey king, just don't manfight him.

Dandain said:

The honest to god trick is to never let him get 4 stacks, engage, disengage, etc. Its exactly like Ursa. Instead of complaining that X Y or Z hero can't fight an empowered monkey king, just don't manfight him.

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At some point though, you have to. Trading hits with him in lane, you will eventually have an issue. I have not enjoyed my experiences trying to farm a lane against him at all. God forbid he has a support with him who can set up a good stun. (I saw a Shadow Shaman/Monkey King lane that was just stupid.) Admittedly, you can blow him up pretty easily if you manage to focus him and get lockdown. If you don't he sneaks away. And at some point you are going to have to team fight.

I've thought about the claims about him not being able to finish a game, and I think it would be better to say he can't finish one solo. He needs someone to lead the charge uphill. He needs a tank or some other core to let him hang back and counter initiate with his Q and ult. If he tries to lead the charge in don't know if it would work as well.

My biggest complaint remains the hiding in trees w/o a counter besides a good guess and cutting it down. All the other heroes have a way to detect them when they are 'hidden'.

ALso, if I ever have to defend a base vs Monkey King again, I'm putting a quelling in my backpack and cutting down every fucking tree in the base.

Beast Master hawk, right? Regardless of how OP he is now, that'll change soon. There's far too much uproar about his current design for it to last long. And, it's unlikely he'll be playable for a tournament or Major for a while.

Beast Master's hawk would also be good for scouting, but again its not nearly as good as wards you can place anywhere.

My best counter I've found so far to MK is to just get Viper. Hit him once with Viper's Q and he can't escape, can't jump and he usually isn't tanky enough to stand up to a whole lot of poison damage. If you have friends with you than he's screwed. A bounty also makes it a lot easier. Don't quite know how Viper vs MK would do one on one, both being equally farmed. But if you can block his escape with your dot and drop your ult on him MK is hating life.

There are some odd interactions though with flight times. If MK manages to jump before the actual attack lands, he will esape into a tree even though he is taking damage. And the damage itself isn't enough to knock him out of it.

Zaphid said:

It's not only about the 200, the new map is very open to small skirmishes where he shines, so he gets items that allow him to 1v1 anybody. Literally, his passive makes him better duelist than LC. On top of that, he has sustain, great mobility, fissure that is better than shaker's, aoe ultimate that wipes the whole teams and scales ridiculously well with items - his staff can hit for 1k+ in the late game. So, yeah, he has all the skills - mobility, aoe, sustain, CC and crazy damage.

Ridas On the other hand, the game is much better understood now than ever before. I understand that new heroes are better overpowered than underpowered, but when it makes the game less fun as a result, you probably need to tune him down a bit. Icefrog's famed balance testers could probably see this coming, when every single pro is like "Yep, guy's broken".

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I am rather drunk but yes absolutely. It is a stupid decision. Just wanted to root it on ice frogs history of introducing new heroes.

Wouldn't Broodmother be a better comparison with Monkey, they both can only go in the trees if they haven't been damaged by heroes recently. Realistically with monkey I can't see how you manage to knock him off his tree without Timber or Engima unless he jumps to the tree immediately beside you and you have a tango/quelling.

There's a ton of heroes who can destroy trees with spells.

Trees - Dota 2 Wiki

Burren said:

There's a ton of heroes who can destroy trees with spells.

Trees - Dota 2 Wiki

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I guess I'm missing beastmaster but that is about it for taking out a big area and not wasting important spells or would be very difficult to hit if you don't know his precise location.

Furion - Sprout+treants seems like a prime example.

i just played a game as vengeful spirit and her ult counters monkey kings ult pretty hard. Just swap him out of the circle.

I'm not sure I enjoy the pace of the new games. It's very easy to get levels. Also seems easier to get multiple items as a support but I'm not sure if that's a function of easier levels.

BrotherWu said:

I mentioned before that I got put into LP about 6-7 months ago. I had a series of issues with my cable one night and got reported, I guess. I got some early wins quickly but then I got stuck with one win to go for a while. I got frustrated and uninstalled the game for about 6 months but started trying to dig out again recently. What a shitshow. After 10 losses in a row, I got some more shitty choices of heros I didn't know one night and just rage quit. BAM, three more wins required in LP. I deserved that.

Anyway, I started playing Japan timezone after reading that some people had had some luck escaping that way. I hated having to pick from random heros in LP but I got my wins in like 4 out of 5 games. So, I'm out on parole.

I finally played a normal match last night, figured I'd jump back into shit tier with something easy like CM. Got some early double kills with her ultimate and then our Pudge proceeded to go 0-18 and we got our shit shoved in. Welcome back to civilization, I guess?

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Heard from a friend that the game has completely changed with new maps and hero changes that if there ever was a time to come back, now would be it. That true? I'd be shit tier, but if I'm learning with everyone else maybe it won't be so bad.