DOTA 2
- Thread starter Bels_sl
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Well map awareness should be there too, and accurate clicking, so that's a few mechanical skills that help. But a lot of dota mechanics rely on different concepts, for example a bunch of it is timing, both in very short windows of time(last hitting, landing skills on moving targets) or longer but less automated windows of time(pulling/stacking/rune control/night time etc but unlike a build order in SC2 which you drill practice until you hit your timings, this is different since the timings are independant of your actions in the game, you could be roaming or dead when the timing windows come).
And then there's the bulk of dota2 difficulty, knowledge of the game. Knowing every hero, every skill particularities(range, mana cost, effects, damage and so on), every item, understanding various interactions, strategies, flow of the game and all that shit. This just comes through a lot of practice. You can read the skill effects, but you won't get a good "feel" for them until you see them in action, either used against you or by you. Sure you know Power Shot is 2000range(or whatever it is too lazy to open wiki, 2500maybe nowadays), but how far is that exactly on the map, can you actually hit that guy or is he too far, what about compensating for cast time and charge time based on his current movement speed before he disapeared in the fog, is the damage going to be enough if you don't charge, and so on. Shit comes naturally once you've played with/against WR for hundreds of games, but before that you can't really judge accurately if you're safe from her or not, or if you can get that kill or not.
That's what makes dota so fun to learn imo, every fucking game you can learn a few more things, get a better understanding of the game and improve bit by bit. And then you can watch replays of you playing 2months before and see how fucking terrible you were.
And then there's the bulk of dota2 difficulty, knowledge of the game. Knowing every hero, every skill particularities(range, mana cost, effects, damage and so on), every item, understanding various interactions, strategies, flow of the game and all that shit. This just comes through a lot of practice. You can read the skill effects, but you won't get a good "feel" for them until you see them in action, either used against you or by you. Sure you know Power Shot is 2000range(or whatever it is too lazy to open wiki, 2500maybe nowadays), but how far is that exactly on the map, can you actually hit that guy or is he too far, what about compensating for cast time and charge time based on his current movement speed before he disapeared in the fog, is the damage going to be enough if you don't charge, and so on. Shit comes naturally once you've played with/against WR for hundreds of games, but before that you can't really judge accurately if you're safe from her or not, or if you can get that kill or not.
That's what makes dota so fun to learn imo, every fucking game you can learn a few more things, get a better understanding of the game and improve bit by bit. And then you can watch replays of you playing 2months before and see how fucking terrible you were.
Penance
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Seriously 90% of this game is decision making. Knowing what everyone can do, and their range and cool downs is one of the largest things I learned. Being able to anticipate what your opponent wants to do is a sense you gradually pick up because of this, and if you start predicting correctly along with the MMR level and their playstyle (aggressive/passive) that is when you start to see your skill level sky rocket.
Being a SC2 isn't going to mean two shits in this game apart for mechanics, and even then when you micro your creeps or meepos straight into a bad situation you only hurt yourself.
Being a SC2 isn't going to mean two shits in this game apart for mechanics, and even then when you micro your creeps or meepos straight into a bad situation you only hurt yourself.
Zaphid
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The mechanics mean a lot once you pick up a few items or need to execute in a teamfight, the game is pretty chill mostly, but occasionally having 200 apm helps a lot. Micro a pet to disable a blink dagger, use force staff, medallion, etc. Then you have heroes like meepo, tinker, invoker or furion where having a pet spider is almost required.
Penance
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No doubt, I probably overstated myself a bit. But I'm still of a sound mind that decision making > mechanics.
EDIT: And then there's the meta which is completely different and where I find myself lacking the most. Like somebody said earlier RTZ was talking about why somebody would pick so and so on a 4 position and that's the shit that I still don't get. Those are the types of things you need years of playing to figure out. But I also think that people focus a bit too much on meta, like the person that complains if your team doesn't have an axe/LC/PA/Slark core.
EDIT: And then there's the meta which is completely different and where I find myself lacking the most. Like somebody said earlier RTZ was talking about why somebody would pick so and so on a 4 position and that's the shit that I still don't get. Those are the types of things you need years of playing to figure out. But I also think that people focus a bit too much on meta, like the person that complains if your team doesn't have an axe/LC/PA/Slark core.
Ridas
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The focus on current pro meta is annoying me the most in Dota2. People are hostile to anything different from current meta and often lack any history of what is doable or not. I had games where I was a safelane farm witchdoctor and was able to dominate early and people understood, that we have to capitalize on it.
But most would just rage hardcore and throw intentionally, instead of adapting to picks that accidently went off the rails.
Intrinsic
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The focus on "pro meta" or "tournament meta" in pubs is absolutely ridiculous. Not sure when it really starts to get toxic, maybe around 4k? Trying to remember based on the unhealthy amount of dota I watch. It has never mattered at all until the highest of high average MMR games when both teams are stacked with pros but even then it is still a pub and they do clowny builds and test out new things.
It is like this new Ember build. Just because RTZ can come online at 20 minutes doesn't mean you can do the same with 2k mechanics and it is 45 minutes and we're still waiting for you to finish your veil! FUCK YOU!
It is like this new Ember build. Just because RTZ can come online at 20 minutes doesn't mean you can do the same with 2k mechanics and it is 45 minutes and we're still waiting for you to finish your veil! FUCK YOU!
Zaphid
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There's something to it, if pros deem it optimal to play that way, then it is understandable, why people might think it should be relatively more powerful even at their level. However if it's a hero you are not comfortable on in a role you have never played, you will probably crash and burn. I know for example carry WD, Treant or mid Lion are possible, however I have limited experience playing those roles, even more so with those heroes, which means I need to focus lot more on what I'm doing, therefore paying less attention to minmap, ganks, etc. It's like SC2, you can in theory freestyle your build order, but adapting what pros do is probably going to get your further.
Fight
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Penance
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Need a couple suggestions for routing an AM with BOTS and BF from flash farming. Once he gets to that staged is it too late to stop him? If so what heroes counter him? OD? Slark?
I know with the jungle changes its a bit harder to flash farm, but in my ELO flash farm means just running through the jungle anyway and not about taking stacked ancient camps.
Also is there any counter to Slark? Hate that thing.
I know with the jungle changes its a bit harder to flash farm, but in my ELO flash farm means just running through the jungle anyway and not about taking stacked ancient camps.
Also is there any counter to Slark? Hate that thing.
Intrinsic
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Hmm... kind of stream of conscious thinking it out is like;
Well, of course it isn't too late to stop him. BF is, like you say, a flash farming item and not a team fight (or fight) item. Depending on your team composition and coordination you can treat him like any other jungler almost. You know where he is by virtue of where he isn't. Buy a smoke group up with a support and go kill him. Until he gets manta he's susceptible to any of the stuns, hex's, silences and has very low turn around potential. You may need some team contribution to break free and do that though. Like he can't afk farm if your whole team is stuck defending the rest of the towers. May not be worth a gank to trade for your T2s, etc... Which is kind of the other point, if you have the lineup just fight away from him and make him react to your push. If he were like Vanguard, Yasha, BOTS it'd be less feasible maybe.
No idea what MMR but Slark is pretty easy to beat by bullying him early and preventing an early 6 or shadow blade. It still requires you to be proactive about challenging him and not being passive, just like the AM. But even if you aren't don't forget that even in his ult Slark can still be hit by non-targettable spells. So any of the 70 characters that have a stun, slow, damage, can still hit him and control him. Slardar with Corrosive, Bounty track, dust, just think of things that prevent him weaving in and out around his regen. Dark Pact is a strong dispel though. Honestly I think Slark requires more team awareness but much like other invis heroes. Supports hanging in the back are easy bait for him to 3 hit, duck out of vision, regen, re engage. Axe is a pretty good counter to him b/c Call goes through Shadow Dance and Slark will likely have low HP / Armor depending on the phase and how successful you were early. Call, Blademail, Culling Blade can make quick work of him.
That's just off the top of my head and I've probably overlooked a ton. AM, and Slark too, have a curve that is a little mid game-y depending on how the laning phase goes. You just can't let them AFK farm or get stupid solo kills in lane.
eXarc
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Why is Urn of Shadows never built in pro matches? I've seen it work some miracles but I only play low to mid tier bracket games. It seems like it would do work since pro games typically have such high kill capacities. What gives?
Maybe too expensive in place of more important items?
Maybe too expensive in place of more important items?
Zaphid
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AM is terribly easy to kill if you have CC and mobility. That's why you rarely see him as anything but fifth pick in competitve. He's also rather weak to mana drain and keep in mind he is still vulnerable to magic damage like any other hero for the first 10 levels, his blink has rather long animation, so chaining your CC becomes easy. As far as heroes who can absolutely destroy him, SK, shaker, pudge, shadow demon and lion are probably the best supports. Skywrath can also be good counter thanks to the silence, but lategame you are walking mana void. If you have physical damage, you can easily go toe to toe with him lategame, since he isn't that great in 5v5, Slark can absolutely go against him once you get butterfly or silver edge, if you don't get blown up during abyssal stun you are fine. As the fight goes on, the stolen agi turns the tide on your favor. Ironically it's the one hero jungle LC can do great against even lategame.
Julian The Apostate
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Probably the biggest mistake I see people making against slark is wasting stuns to his dark pact. Having the patience to wait off his dark pact before you stun makes a world of difference. You have about a 3 second window after dark pact to stun him.
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