DOTA 2

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
Secret vs Duza in Starladder is going full retard, right now it's 3v5 with Arteezy and Puppey disconnected and no pauses.

3v4 now

Holy shit this game is awesome, Kuro rubbick going full carry with stolen brew split and then casually grabs laguna blade before denying himself on bloodstone
 

Genjiro

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
5,218
5,066
Na'vi is so so so bad now. Xboct is maybe the worst carry of any top tier team (if you can even call them that now, probably not). Dendi drafting offlane support Morphling for them? wtf, Empire just ran over their entire team with 1 Bristleback.

Fng wasnt the problem it was Xboct just yoloing everywhere and dying on his own. He farmed the medium camp right by Rosh after he saw Empire just got the aegis....sat there farming and they ran up the ramp and raped him.

edit: Aaaaand Xboct ends the game with a dieback trying to 1v3 Empire

Xboct just cost them another game running outside of the base defense vs HR and died before his team could even go help. Na'vi 0-3 for today so far.....I was wrong earlier, they are like a bad tier 2 team now
 

Caal

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,588
66
Na'vi is so so so bad now. Xboct is maybe the worst carry of any top tier team (if you can even call them that now, probably not). Dendi drafting offlane support Morphling for them? wtf, Empire just ran over their entire team with 1 Bristleback.

Fng wasnt the problem it was Xboct just yoloing everywhere and dying on his own. He farmed the medium camp right by Rosh after he saw Empire just got the aegis....sat there farming and they ran up the ramp and raped him.

edit: Aaaaand Xboct ends the game with a dieback trying to 1v3 Empire

Xboct just cost them another game running outside of the base defense vs HR and died before his team could even go help. Na'vi 0-3 for today so far.....I was wrong earlier, they are like a bad tier 2 team now
Their games have been so clowny that I just assume they're all drunk. If Xbox was the worst, Phobos was right behind him. And Dendi's Tinker? One of the shittiest games I've seen from a Tinker with any kind of farm.
 

Genjiro

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
5,218
5,066
Dendi is trying to carry the team on his back it seems and trying too hard to make every play and is dying a lot more than usual. Hes had some amazing games recently on magnus etc with rps but xboct is trying to solo tier 3s and dying. The rest of their lineup other than Vanksor is just meh
 

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
Secret vs M5 g3. The start is missing red nose and huge shoes.

You have to see that yourselves
 

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
7,974
7,205
So someone give me an answer to troll warlord, because as far as I can tell he is assured victory in every game he's picked. Is there even an answer to warlord with bkb and like one other damage item?
 

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
Winter wyvern, Beastmaster, Bane, Clockwerk, ... you are looking for a bkb piercing stun with some slows to kite him around. Omni, Razor or Axe are also decent and Tinker can make his life rather uncomfortable with laser until he gets items. He almost never rushes bkb, so you have quite a lot of time to shut him down, but he is one of the best rosh killers in the meta right now, so he always has some comeback potential.
 

Explosivo_sl

shitlord
181
0
Noob question inc.

What are the strategic advantages to mouse scrolling over using awsd to move the camera? I started playing mobas when hon was released and I knew dick all about them. I was never good at RTS games so I didn't pick up any skills from those, either.

So when I started playing hon, I rebound my keys to what made sense to me at the time, which was moving the camera with awsd and using abilities with 1234. Is mouse scrolling important enough that I should try to re-train my muscle memory?
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,091
2,281
Well you're missing buttons to use for items shortcuts+abilities. 1-4 doesn't cut it when heroes have up to 6 abilities and you can have up to 6 activated items, plus vendor shortcuts and so on. If you can fit it, there isn't much of a difference I think as long as you can set the scrolling speed high enough, arguably it might be better since you don't lose mouse focus.
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
917
The short answer is if you don't want to be artificially capped by the way you control the game yes, you should absolutely move to edge panning. If you are not concerned about your ultimate skill ceiling you can certainly play the game under any of its alternative control options. They are designed to be accessible but not necessarily absolutely competitive. As long as you get matched against people who have your relative skill (adjusted) the game will play fine. There are things you will not do as quickly or fluidly with the camera that you can do with edgepan, camerabinds, snap commands and cursor clicks on the minimap. Int might be able to give you a little more insight into this specific topic.
 

Fight

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,593
5,431
I didn't even know AWSD camera movement was a thing, haha. What a nightmare. Like learning how to ride a bike, by pedaling with your hands.
 

Intrinsic

Person of Whiteness
<Gold Donor>
14,422
12,053
Noob question inc.

What are the strategic advantages to mouse scrolling over using awsd to move the camera? I started playing mobas when hon was released and I knew dick all about them. I was never good at RTS games so I didn't pick up any skills from those, either.

So when I started playing hon, I rebound my keys to what made sense to me at the time, which was moving the camera with awsd and using abilities with 1234. Is mouse scrolling important enough that I should try to re-train my muscle memory?
Some of the more experienced have chimed in so I'll offer my view as a new'ish player who went through this.

I did not come from an RTS background at all, so like you when starting MOBAs using WASD seemed more natural. I think that came from hating the click to move system in some MMOs at the time so it was like an instinctual aversion.

My first 200 games were with WASD until Dandain convinced me to try edge-pan. Honestly it seemed completely made up that there could be any functional difference and for my stubbornness refused to accept it.

My last 200 games have been with edge-pan and it is night and day, absolutely (for me) 100% better. I still don't use a lot of hotkeys, and even the limited ones I do not appropriately, but WASD was getting in the way. Unless you can effectively map (A)ttack, (S)top, control groups if you use them, abilities QWERD, your inventory hotkeys, quick buy, anything else you want, taking away four is gonna suck.

The other thing that personally I find a bigger advantage... you're much less likely to screw up your camera positioning, or your positioning, by using edge-pan. With WASD camera controls it was real hard to try not to micro the camera position during fights or laning, when I should have been much more focused on my last hitting, leaving the camera in a more or less good position, and not misclicking. There's enough to do with the mouse without having to deal with constant camera moves, even nudges. And once you get more or less proficient with edge=-an making those nudges becomes even easier and more fluid.

Transitioning was a pain in the ass but luckily most of my character bad habits were tied to Shadow Shaman b/c out of 200 games like 70 or 80 were with him, and to this day I still screw up shackle and accidentally drop wards b/c of the change from E/R and wards use to being F. I'm certainly not good by any measure and there is undoubtedly 6k+ players out there using WASD (someone was streaming the other day but can't remember who), but ultimately even I had to give up and admit it was hurting me more than helping.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,091
2,281
The short answer is if you don't want to be artificially capped by the way you control the game yes, you should absolutely move to edge panning. If you are not concerned about your ultimate skill ceiling you can certainly play the game under any of its alternative control options. They are designed to be accessible but not necessarily absolutely competitive. As long as you get matched against people who have your relative skill (adjusted) the game will play fine. There are things you will not do as quickly or fluidly with the camera that you can do with edgepan, camerabinds, snap commands and cursor clicks on the minimap. Int might be able to give you a little more insight into this specific topic.
Thing is you can do camera binds and minimap clicks with keyboard camera, these are pretty unrelated. Not sure what's snap commands. Overall, having your left hand adjust camera while you position your mouse on your target right away does sound more optimal than flicking your wrist to move the camera then accurately come back to your target before you use your skill. I was thinking it'd be worse if you were to use a skill and move the camera at the same time, but how often do you do that versus moving camera and clicking roughly on the same area(around the middle).

It sounds weird since I'm used to edge panning, but thinking about it, I don't really see much of a downside to it.
 

Explosivo_sl

shitlord
181
0
I've given myself a pretty effective setup. Of all the things mentioned above, the only one I really can't find good room for is setting control groups. I've never really sweat it though, I suck balls with heroes that require a lot of micro.

I really appreciate the input. I think that I'll play bot games with edge panning until I get more comfortable with it, and then make a decision on how I want to go. I'll still probably suck at dota, though. 3200mmr 4lyfe!
 

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
Thing is you can do camera binds and minimap clicks with keyboard camera, these are pretty unrelated. Not sure what's snap commands. Overall, having your left hand adjust camera while you position your mouse on your target right away does sound more optimal than flicking your wrist to move the camera then accurately come back to your target before you use your skill. I was thinking it'd be worse if you were to use a skill and move the camera at the same time, but how often do you do that versus moving camera and clicking roughly on the same area(around the middle).

It sounds weird since I'm used to edge panning, but thinking about it, I don't really see much of a downside to it.
Last time I looked into binding map positions for camera, you had to do it through editing .cfg or redo it at the start of every game.

Technically the superior way to move your camera is through mix of edge panning, control groups(double tap) and clicking on the minimap, depending on the distance you have to move. Dota isn't that demanding, but at some point, you start running into issues with your camera control, like reacting to ganks - click on minimap to see how the situation looks, hit tp hotkey and either click on the ground or to an exact spot in case they are diving and shift-queue whatever abilities you need... It doesn't look like much, but every second counts between you getting a kill/assist or tping to your doom.

Valve does it again:Facelift Void | Dota 2
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