Dr. Mario's Retard Rehabilitation Program

I think taking the "game" part of "video game" literally is misguided. I think it's been many years since things we consider video games have not actually qualified as "games". I mean, obviously "Mario Paint", "Elektroplankton" or "DIY Wario Ware" aren't technically games, but the only place you're going to find them is in a video game shop or when searching online for video games. If we had to go to an art supply store to buy Mario Paint it very likely would not have sold nearly as many copies.

"Video game" has come to mean "interactive digital entertainment" and that's OK. I honestly don't think anybody who would enjoy Gone Home is having trouble finding it because it's a video game. And even if there are such people, I highly doubt they would have an easier time finding it if it was under a tab they'd be even less likely to click on when searching through a gaming service like Steam or, god forbid, an online game shop on a console.

Alright. This has been pretty exhaustive, I think. Thanks for the genuine discussion, it is much appreciated. I think we both made some good points. You can have the last word if you like. You're a good guy.

Wow, Famm, that "Evolution of the Word 'Thug'" piece was actually pretty interesting. Nice find.

Would +1 you if I could.

Chanur: "Those (Salon) are your people Moon Bat. Think long and hard about that in your time out."

Actually, I haven't affiliated myself with them in any way, nor have I ever expressed views that align with either one of those articles. Nice troll, tho.

Alright, Kriptini, let's say there are some video games that shouldn't qualify as games, but rather as "interactive experiences".

Where can you purchase them? How will you find them? What value does making this distinction hold? Quaid suggested that separating them would make it easier for non-gamers to find them... But these non-gamers would still have to go to a game shop or use a game client like Steam, right? The only thing that would make a practical difference is how these titles are categorized, and that in no way requires them to not be considered video games.

Mario Paint is not a video game, but I would easily say "I played Mario Paint for 2 hours last night". When I count my SNES games, I'm going to include Mario Paint in the count. If I decide to sell it on eBay, it's going to be under the "video games" category. If acknowledging that Mario Paint is not technically a video game doesn't change any of that, then what purpose does this distinction serve?

Video Games are an art form, and how they make the player feel is highly subjective. There was not a moment while I was playing Gone Home where I didn't feel like I was playing a video game, and (to me, at least) that counts a lot more than whether or not some arbitrary (and make no mistake, it is arbitrary) nebulously-defined characteristic is met or not. So while I will openly admit that Mario Paint isn't technically a video game, I would never argue that it shouldn't be considered a video game because there is nothing to be gained by doing so (in other words: I know Mario Paint is not a "game" but I will continue to refer to it as such for practicality's sake). Gone Home isn't even in a gray area as far as I'm concerned. Unlike Mario Paint, Gone Home is a video game through and through. It's a narrative-driven, action-free atmospheric game with no fail states, but it's still a video game. Obviously, there are people who disagree because they draw the line somewhere other than where I do, but just like with Mario Paint, if there is nothing to be gained by making this distinction (and there isn't) then what's the point?

I acknowledged the "not enough titles to warrant a new genre" point already. But even then, the solution is simply a new genre, and even THEN, there will be gray areas and people who disagree with how certain titles are classified.

I have zero doubt that we will see more and more titles like Gone Home, but I have great doubts that that number will ever justify a separate store, ESPECIALLY when what separates the contents of these two stores is subject to interpretation. You're acting like there's a homogeneous group of people who ONLY want to play games like Gone Home and would never consider any of the many, many titles we consider "video games". I agree with you that we should make it easy for consumers to find the kind of titles they want, but one of the ways we're making progress there (on Steam, at least) is by eliminating "genres" as we know them and replacing them with user-generated descriptors. What is it about Gone Home that makes it more accessible to your wife? Is it the lack of fail states? The lack of required skill or reflexes? The prominence of the plot? The slow pace? The simple control scheme? What if a game has only 4 of those 5 characteristics? Should it be included in the "interactive experience" store or the "video game" store? If she is able to search for and find other titles that have the specific characteristics she is looking for (which is where we're headed with Steam's system), then why make a separate store? I loved Gone Home as a video game. Why should I have to go to a separate store to find another game like it because some people consider it "not a game"?

I've understood everything you've said, but I have yet to see any practical reason why Gone Home should not be considered a video game. And that's IF the industry and consumers could somehow agree on what separates a video game from a non-video game, which is a near impossibility.

Now let's hug!

Kriptini: "The value of distinction is that I don't want to be tricked into buying another game like Stanley Parable where I hold down my W key and listen to the most self-masturbatory narrative I've ever listened to in my life. Steam categorizes its listed items as "games" or "software." Just make another section for "interactive media" or whatever. Easy."

"Tricked"? Who "tricked" you?

From The Stanley Parable's Steam page:

"The Stanley Parable is a first person exploration game. You will play as Stanley, and you will not play as Stanley. You will follow a story, you will not follow a story. You will have a choice, you will have no choice. The game will end, the game will never end. Contradiction follows contradiction, the rules of how games should work are broken, then broken again. This world was not made for you to understand.

But as you explore, slowly, meaning begins to arise, the paradoxes might start to make sense, perhaps you are powerful after all. The game is not here to fight you; it is inviting you to dance.

Based on the award-winning 2011 Source mod of the same name, The Stanley Parable returns with new content, new ideas, a fresh coat of visual paint, and the stunning voicework of Kevan Brighting. For a more complete and in-depth understanding of what The Stanley Parable is, please try out the free demo."

Now, by YOUR VERY DEFINITION: "A game needs to be able to define a winner and a loser". Yet the description explicitly states "The game is not here to fight you; it is inviting you to dance." You're also invited to try the free demo so you know what you're getting into commitment-free. I knew exactly what I was getting into and I loved it. It's another great video game that plays with expectations and pushes the medium in new directions. It's no less a video game than God of War, Tetris, Awesomenauts or Phoenix Wright. They all do radically different things in radically different ways and they're all video games. I'm sure if you try, you can find things they all have in common except Stanley Parable, but you can also find stuff they all have in common except Tetris (defined protagonist), or except Phoenix Wright (a physics engine), or whatever. It's a pointless exercise in a vast, varied and inclusive medium.

Sorry you didn't like Stanley Parable, but nobody tricked you. You just didn't do your homework. It happens to the best of us, we've all purchased games we didn't enjoy at some point. But just because you had buyer's remorse, doesn't mean we have to pull the games you don't like off the shelves and into another store to protect you from them.

But you know what? Steam lets YOU categorize The Stanley Parable as "interactive media". Here are some of the tags it has been assigned (there are more):
Comedy
Narration
Indie
First-Person
Walking Simulator
Satire
Funny
Dynamic Narration
Psychological

Even if you disagree with some of those, it starts to paint a picture, doesn't it? I mean, I will absolutely agree that it's not a "conventional" video game, but the beautiful thing about this point in the evolution of gaming is that games don't have to "conventional" any more! I encourage developers to keep experimenting with their products, and as long as they are fun to play I will be happy to call them video games. To do otherwise would be a disservice to the medium and an insult to the developers.

Quaid: "@Tanoomba: what exactly is your definition of a video game?"

That's a good question, but an incredibly difficult one to answer, like "What is art?"

I mean, I guess I could say if it's digital, interactive and meant for entertainment, then it's a video game. However, it wouldn't surprise me if you could find examples of things that meet those characteristics but are clearly not video games, like, hmmm... A particularly flashy DVD menu, an iPod, a Kindle, etc.

But then again, I don't feel like establishing a strict definition of "video game" is either necessary nor productive. One of my favorite things about video games is how incredibly flexible the medium is. I don't want developers to feel their games have to meet an arbitrary set of criteria before it be made available to gamers among other games. On the contrary, I WANT developers to continue to experiment and try to surprise us, even if that means occasionally disappointing some people. Undoubtedly, as more and more of these "unconventional" games continue to be made, they will become easier to identify and abstain from/focus on as your tastes dictate.