EQ Never

Dizzam_sl said:

It was the Alpha Squad Package. For $40 you received $40 worth of Station Cash, entrance into the beta, 6 month XP boost, and some unique items. Not a bad deal.

Click to expand...

That was it thanks for the clarification. I enjoyed the model that they used there, you're essentially purchasing the "box" of a FTP game for early access while the company can still get away with sweeping changes to gameplay under the justification of "Hey, we're still in beta."

Fedor_sl said:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Emp...RVW2506268.htm

Click to expand...

Thanks for this Fedor. I found this quote particularly apt: "SOE games are not developed to be fun, creative, or rewarding experiences for the player. They are made to drain as much money from them as possible." I realized this for myself after many years of EQ play and much time wondering why on earth they never reinvested the gains they reaped from EQ back into the game in order to transform it into something truly amazing. There is so much that they could have done to enhance and broaden the world and gameplay experience, they obviously had the resources to do it but they never lifted a finger except to pump out expansions once or twice a year. Expansions that slowly killed the heart and soul of the game bit by bit by making prior content virtually obsolete and thus shrinking the game world instead of "expanding" it simply to force subscribers to buy or get left behind.

His talk about SoE's management was worth reading also and gives me little hope that they have improved recently. Though it would be nice if they were able to finally get their shit together.

Most raiders realized that when the focuses from GoD (which should have been a level 70 increase) would not work up to 70 when OoW was released.

Dizzam_sl said:

First, never forget who it came from. Second, they have since walked this back.

Spoiler

Click to expand...

Assuming a lame-ass community manager who wears a fake dwarf beard knows anything about the inner machinations of EQN seems like a poor assumption.

Nobody_sl said:

Assuming a lame-ass community manager who wears a fake dwarf beard knows anything about the inner machinations of EQN seems like a poor assumption.

Click to expand...

Assuminganycommunity manager would unnecessarily bring disappointing news seems like an even poorer assumption.

Gask_sl said:

Thanks for this Fedor. I found this quote particularly apt: "SOE games are not developed to be fun, creative, or rewarding experiences for the player. They are made to drain as much money from them as possible." I realized this for myself after many years of EQ play and much time wondering why on earth they never reinvested the gains they reaped from EQ back into the game in order to transform it into something truly amazing. There is so much that they could have done to enhance and broaden the world and gameplay experience, they obviously had the resources to do it but they never lifted a finger except to pump out expansions once or twice a year. Expansions that slowly killed the heart and soul of the game bit by bit by making prior content virtually obsolete and thus shrinking the game world instead of "expanding" it simply to force subscribers to buy or get left behind.

His talk about SoE's management was worth reading also and gives me little hope that they have improved recently. Though it would be nice if they were able to finally get their shit together.

Click to expand...

So according to this... all we can hope for here is smed's new great stuff is : A new way to hook players longer and make them spend more ... or translated . . . they meaning "SOE" are really exited about some design that came out of a breakthrough way to make more money developing MMOs.

Gask_sl said:

There is so much that they could have done to enhance and broaden the world and gameplay experience.

Click to expand...

I have no idea what this means. And with respect to the content comments: I'm all for keeping old content relevant for as long as possible but at some point it has to become passe or your players aren't advancing in any meaningful way. That said, I can think of a lot of Smedley and Producer decisions I disagreed with, with respect to EQ and to Vanguard.

It's easy to look back and see how these decisions ruined good games, but it bears remembering that smedley had people to answer to in regards to why their games aren't doing as well as their competitor, and he will still have to answer those questions if this game doesn't at least hold on to most of its base after release. Not good decisions but not insane or out of nowhere and still a threat to this game.

tad10_sl said:

I have no idea what this means. And with respect to the content comments: I'm all for keeping old content relevant for as long as possible but at some point it has to become passe or your players aren't advancing in any meaningful way. That said, I can think of a lot of Smedley and Producer decisions I disagreed with, with respect to EQ and to Vanguard.

Click to expand...

What I meant was that they could have made much more of an effort to give the existing world a feeling of life and change from time to time. The addition of new quests, npcs, mechanics and the discovery of new dungeons & other content periodically would have been very interesting if done well, especially limited time content. An example that they actually did do well was the introduction of Chardok B which brought a bit of life back to a classic zone and made knowing the ins and outs of Chardok relevant again as the new zone was buried near the bank and very difficult for many to locate.

They spent so much effort on making their customers pay for new isolated boxed content that they neglected the benefits of enhanced sub retention through improving Norath; the only setting in game that we can all agree that we care about. That should have been their goal, what we got instead past a certain point was just a new isolated hub zone system that took us all to some meaningless new setting that was quickly forgotten 6 months down the line in favor of the next one.

Edit: Some examples just on Kunark: The Goblin / Sarnak "war" that never went anywhere, imagine if there was a real Goblin capitol on par with Chardok that was discovered along with pro goblin quest lines leading up to some big war event ala the ring war in Velious. The triple faction war that could have happened between OT, Cabilis and FV and all of the quest opportunities that could have existed (especially a pro Venril quest angle). Yes I know about the GM event but it added very little. The Iksar crusade for Sebilis that went nowhere. Mysteries in the Field of Bone. There were tons of opportunities to expand upon existing content.

TLDR: A world that grows each year instead of shrinking.

Gask_sl said:

Thanks for this Fedor. I found this quote particularly apt: "SOE games are not developed to be fun, creative, or rewarding experiences for the player. They are made to drain as much money from them as possible." I realized this for myself after many years of EQ play and much time wondering why on earth they never reinvested the gains they reaped from EQ back into the game in order to transform it into something truly amazing. There is so much that they could have done to enhance and broaden the world and gameplay experience, they obviously had the resources to do it but they never lifted a finger except to pump out expansions once or twice a year. Expansions that slowly killed the heart and soul of the game bit by bit by making prior content virtually obsolete and thus shrinking the game world instead of "expanding" it simply to force subscribers to buy or get left behind.

His talk about SoE's management was worth reading also and gives me little hope that they have improved recently. Though it would be nice if they were able to finally get their shit together.

Click to expand...

Planetside 2 is showing the true colours of SoE when it comes to taking advantage of players and their money. There is not a single person I have met that we play with that hasn't dumped more than $60 bones into that game. Most players are sitting around the $140-$300 Mark. And if you aren't playing, you aren't enjoying the best one sided match this side of Lance Armstrong. EQN will be no different with the F2P model. If PvP is involved, I pity all the players that will become part of the cycle we are experiencing in PS2 right now.

Lets see, 60 dollars for the game, and 15/mo. for 8 months is 120, so $180? most players sitting aroudn the 140-300 mark seems about right eh?

Also, what is the one sided match? esplain!!!

Excidium_sl said:

Planetside 2 is showing the true colours of SoE when it comes to taking advantage of players and their money. There is not a single person I have met that we play with that hasn't dumped more than $60 bones into that game. Most players are sitting around the $140-$300 Mark. And if you aren't playing, you aren't enjoying the best one sided match this side of Lance Armstrong. EQN will be no different with the F2P model. If PvP is involved, I pity all the players that will become part of the cycle we are experiencing in PS2 right now.

Click to expand...

I don't mind paying money for something I like ($180/year no problem), I just don't like the FTP model precisely because it is designed to nickel and dime you, however the market has spoken and the idiots want FTP instead of PTP.

@Gask fair enough but I still think there's only so much horizontal advancement you can do with the EQ model at some point you've got to level vertically.

Good cash shops don't nickle and dime you, they provide stuff you don't need but really want. Bad cash shops nickle and dime you by making you pay for quality of life shit like hotbars and normal experience curves.

Bellringer_sl said:

Lets see, 60 dollars for the game, and 15/mo. for 8 months is 120, so $180? most players sitting aroudn the 140-300 mark seems about right eh?

Also, what is the one sided match? esplain!!!

Click to expand...

There are no box sales for PS2 or EQN. I'm not including the subscription price in my estimates. How many weapons have we bought that were added after our last weapon we bought was nerfed? This new weapon is clearly OP and will remain that way until enough F2P players complain about how bad they are getting destroyed. You think the nerf bat was bad in EQ, you should see PS2. So us paying players just move to the next great farm.

Like Tad said. Good cash shops are fine (TF2) but bad ones (PS2) are game breaking. I buy my weapons and use all the XP boosts. If you don't, you normally are the person getting farmed by the players who invested cash into the game.

And your one sided match is good paying PS2 players vs the non-paying players who can't afford to deckout the vehicles used to farm people. This character I made the other night to go fly on Matherson to shoot down some ESFs. Check the kill board, those are mostly ESFs and people in tanks. Its not fair to them one bit because I own the guns I purchase on all characters. I then generate certs normally around 6-8x faster than the average non-paying player. So when the new OP weapon comes out, I can purchase it, then dump 4k more certs instantly into the weapon to max it out. From day 1 I can enjoy the farm. Here is my new character.https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428087445735602785

Vanguard and EQ1 have pretty horrible cash shops (don't know about EQ2). But they were pasted onto sub games and they are still evolving. Better than they use to be but still just a way to force people to sub. DCUO and PS2 have much better cash shops, especially PS2 since it was built to be F2P. EQNext's shop will probably be closer to PS2's.

Excidium_sl said:

There are no box sales for PS2 or EQN.[/URL]

Click to expand...

No shit. I am saying that if the game werent F2P then the box price would probably be 60. Holy shit how do you remember to breathe.

qwerty_sl said:

For bad cash shops you have to mention Vanguard. If EQ Next is like that, I wont even try the game at all.

Click to expand...

How bad is Vanguards? I just watched a video about it because I was curious and the cash shop didn't seem that bad (assuming classes and races are unlocked with a subscription). The only thing that seemed questionable were like equipment crates, although I'm sort of assuming they aren't comparable to max level gear.

qwerty_sl said:

And a mount is about 1000, a flying mount is about 1500 and you can just buy one of those at level 1... total smack in the face to all the old timers who spent a long time getting their flying mounts at level 50

Click to expand...

Oh wow, that is sort of messed up. I don't think cash bought mounts should be anything more than a visual change, really.

qwerty_sl said:

And potions that completely recover all your health and mana, it doesn't get more pay2win than that.

Click to expand...

In combat? Yikes.

Carl_sl said:

It's easy to look back and see how these decisions ruined good games, but it bears remembering that smedley had people to answer to in regards to why their games aren't doing as well as their competitor, and he will still have to answer those questions if this game doesn't at least hold on to most of its base after release. Not good decisions but not insane or out of nowhere and still a threat to this game.

Click to expand...

The last I recall the people he answers to were happy with him and their system because despite all of their fails in the gameplay department SOE is turning a profit and has been for a long time. They actually manage to make enough money from their MMO life support suite and now PS2 to keep things fairly status quo unfortunately.